What's the Story with Gilman?

[1032004]

Gilman did confirm he is going to NLWC (specifically said not PSU) as a coach.

[Dogbone]

21 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

You serious? Troy Spratley went from R12 to national finalist (with a win over the dude that beat Spencer Lee) and sounded like he was working almost exclusively with Gilman. I'd say the dude can coach, and coach well.

He should get credit for Spratley but 125 is such a toss up weight.   He was at PSU last year when Davis didn't AA and none of their other lightweight at OSU AA'd, including 133 who didn't qualify for NCAAs.

He did a good job this year but he has only coached for 1 year.   Let's not put him in the HOF of coaches just yet. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

4 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Ehh, true, but for most of the top college guys (excluding the truly elite guys like Carter, Gable, Aaron Brooks, Spencer Lee, etc. [and even all those guys took losses except Carter]), the devil is in the details to make those jumps in results.  Gilman and the rest of the staff should get credit for that.  

Yes, but you could also argue that he underperformed the year before.  I'm not sure how much he improved (multiple losses to Jett), but more that he got it all together at the right time.  And yes, that is the game.   His placement did not surprise me , nor would it have surprised me if you told me a year ago.

[Winners Circle]

16 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Spratley was capable of much higher than R12 in 2024.  Spratley also lost to a freshman with zero state titles who was only invited on one official visit. 

It wasn't like he jumped levels and levels this year.  

Spratley went from losing 2x to Tanner Jordan, including once in the bloodround, to majoring him 10-0 this season. I would say that is a level jump.

And in regards to Vincent Robinson loss, Vincent was multiple time Super 32 AA, Fargo AA, Ironman AA, Powerade Champ, etc. and was the #50 overall recruit in the class of 2023. Let's not act like he was a scrub. Get real.

[Winners Circle]

22 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

He can coach, can he deal with administrators?  He seems like a guy that should open his own youth club 

That wasn't @bnwtwg argument though.

[Winners Circle]

16 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

He should get credit for Spratley but 125 is such a toss up weight.   He was at PSU last year when Davis didn't AA and none of their other lightweight at OSU AA'd, including 133 who didn't qualify for NCAAs.

He did a good job this year but he has only coached for 1 year.   Let's not put him in the HOF of coaches just yet. 

Who said HOF? I was just saying the guy is a good coach, when @bnwtwg said he wasn't. 

[Winners Circle]

13 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Yes, but you could also argue that he underperformed the year before.  I'm not sure how much he improved (multiple losses to Jett), but more that he got it all together at the right time.  And yes, that is the game.   His placement did not surprise me , nor would it have surprised me if you told me a year ago.

Jett had 3 losses at 125 this year: Figs, Ventresca, and Caleb Smith. Wins over Spratley 2x, Stevo, Rivera (bloodrounder), and Anderson (bloodrounder). He was good this year, period. 

[Spencerlee]

4 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

Spratley went from losing 2x to Tanner Jordan, including once in the bloodround, to majoring him 10-0 this season. I would say that is a level jump.

And in regards to Vincent Robinson loss, Vincent was multiple time Super 32 AA, Fargo AA, Ironman AA, Powerade Champ, etc. and was the #50 overall recruit in the class of 2023. Let's not act like he was a scrub. Get real.

He also went to SV with Ayala twice.  125 was just random

[Winners Circle]

Just now, Spencerlee said:

He also went to SV with Ayala twice.  125 was just random

Yes, and lost both. What's your point?

[Spencerlee]

Just now, Winners Circle said:

Yes, and lost both. What's your point?

That he was good last year too. He didn't make some crazy jump this year.

[Spencerlee]

53 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Great competitor, not sure coaching is in his future and certainly not while he is still competing.

Ceiling: Mix between Terry and Bono

Floor: Chertow-like nomad

No one is held to a out of this world barometer , yet are also compared to the absolute worst in college wrestling more than Iowa coaches.

[Winners Circle]

2 minutes ago, Spencerlee said:

That he was good last year too. He didn't make some crazy jump this year.

We're defining people by closes losses now? The point I was making that Gilman helped Spratley get over the hump. From losing matches like that, to winning them. From R12 to 2nd. 

[1032004]

9 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

That wasn't @bnwtwg argument though.

I mean he didn’t say he couldn’t coach either.  His example of a “floor” was Chertow who ran very successful camps, so seems like he could coach too.

Overall I’d actually agree with the comment that Spratley didn’t really jump levels.  Since people are citing examples the best example of that is probably beating Strickenberger last year but then losing to him twice this year.  He was able to peak at the right time though, Gilman may have helped with that but that could have been also more driven from Taylor

[Spencerlee]

2 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

We're defining people by closes losses now? The point I was making that Gilman helped Spratley get over the hump. From losing matches like that, to winning them. From R12 to 2nd. 

Like beating Jett in 2024, and losing to him twice in 25? Like I said, 125 is just a random weight.

[Dogbone]

10 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

Who said HOF? I was just saying the guy is a good coach, when @bnwtwg said he wasn't. 

Yes, the HOF was intended to be hyperbole but you were flabbergasted that there is still wide range on his potential has a coach.  He did a good job coaching 1 of 10 guys for 1 season.  

 Chertow was an assistant on a runner-up team and that being Gilman's floor is not crazy.

[Winners Circle]

35 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I mean he didn’t say he couldn’t coach either.  His example of a “floor” was Chertow who ran very successful camps, so seems like he could coach too.

Overall I’d actually agree with the comment that Spratley didn’t really jump levels.  Since people are citing examples the best example of that is probably beating Strickenberger last year but then losing to him twice this year.  He was able to peak at the right time though, Gilman may have helped with that but that could have been also more driven from Taylor

Ask Spratley if he jumped levels. 

32 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

Yes, the HOF was intended to be hyperbole but you were flabbergasted that there is still wide range on his potential has a coach.  He did a good job coaching 1 of 10 guys for 1 season.  

 Chertow was an assistant on a runner-up team and that being Gilman's floor is not crazy.

Fair point. 

[bnwtwg]

I said his ceiling is a mix of one of, at worst, the three best assistants in the country at any level mixed with B1G head coach with multiple AAs and the occasional finalist appearance. What about that says "Gilman can't coach"

His floor is his floor. Still better than most. Gilman marches to the beat of his own drum and no one else's so don't be slighted. 

[CHROMEBIRD]

2 hours ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Finally, is it just me or did it look like Gilman had something under his lip? Picking up the tobacci chaw habit?

OSU might be Zyn central, but I would be shocked if Gilman picked up the habit. He leads such a disciplined life, post-match antics notwithstanding. It does look like he's turned the intensity down a few notches, though. Like was this the chillest Gilman interview ever?

[1032004]

1 hour ago, Winners Circle said:

Ask Spratley if he jumped levels. 

I don’t know Troy Spratley.  Has he said he thought he jumped levels?

[Winners Circle]

4 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I don’t know Troy Spratley.  Has he said he thought he jumped levels?

I'm sure he's much happier with 2nd than DNP.

[1032004]

3 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

I'm sure he's much happier with 2nd than DNP.

Of course.  I have not seen any comments he’s made since NCAA’s.  if he said something to the effect of “I felt I could have won it last year” then he probably doesn’t think he “jumped levels”

[1032004]

Back to Gilman, if I’m not mistaken I don’t believe he said anything about being closer to the wife’s family in PA.  IMO seemed to be driven by “not getting along with the staff” but no clue what that means 

Edited April 10 by 1032004

[Lunaticfringe]

Reading between the lines, Kennedy is just like Gilman. Tough to work with. Taylor sided with his brother in law and didn’t wanna work stuff out with Gilman so he didn’t try to get Kennedy and Gilman to have a sit down.  If it was Caldwell he would just fire him.

[1032004]

8 minutes ago, Lunaticfringe said:

Reading between the lines, Kennedy is just like Gilman. Tough to work with. Taylor sided with his brother in law and didn’t wanna work stuff out with Gilman so he didn’t try to get Kennedy and Gilman to have a sit down.  If it was Caldwell he would just fire him.

Possible, but didn’t Gilman and Kennedy work together for several years at NLWC?

I also wouldn’t be so quick to say he’d just fire Caldwell.  Taylor may have thought it was important to have at least some continuity from the old regime.

[BAC]

2 hours ago, Lunaticfringe said:

Reading between the lines, Kennedy is just like Gilman. Tough to work with. Taylor sided with his brother in law and didn’t wanna work stuff out with Gilman so he didn’t try to get Kennedy and Gilman to have a sit down.  If it was Caldwell he would just fire him.

That was my read too.  Not because I know anything negative about Kennedy, but just process of elimination. 

It seemed like the conflict wasn't with Taylor, but Taylor wasn't making it go away either -- and didn't make it to Gilman's 2-person-long "list of reasons to stay" (Troy/Roman).  I've got to think if it were anyone but Kennedy, Taylor would go to bat for him, but Taylor's hands are sort of tied with Kennedy.

Gilman's such an interesting cat.  Stubborn, hotheaded, abrasive... but also loyal, self-aware, driven, honest to a fault.  I find it hard not to like him.  I can see how he'd have a personality conflict with someone, but I also see why PSU would want to have him back.