The GOAT Iowa wrestler is from PA = makes me smile

[Bigbrog]

Back to the original topic, I think Lee is an elite college wrestler, and definitely should be in discussion as one of the best ever...but man...there sure were a lot of elite wrestlers that have come through Iowa, so it's hard to say unequivocally if he is the Iowa Hawkey's GOAT.

[1032004]

41 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Back to the original topic, I think Lee is an elite college wrestler, and definitely should be in discussion as one of the best ever...but man...there sure were a lot of elite wrestlers that have come through Iowa, so it's hard to say unequivocally if he is the Iowa Hawkey's GOAT.

Wasn’t Gable considered their unquestioned goat previously? If that’s the case then Lee tops him with four titles. The only question would be if they had any undefeated three time champs from before freshman could wrestle which I don’t know. But if that was the case those guys should’ve had an argument over Gable too

[ionel]

46 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

 if he is the Iowa Hawkey's GOAT.

 

2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Wasn’t Gable considered their unquestioned goat previously? If that’s the case then Lee tops him with four titles. The only question would be if they had any undefeated three time champs from before freshman could wrestle which I don’t know. But if that was the case those guys should’ve had an argument over Gable too

???

[1032004]

Just now, ionel said:

 

???

Sh1t, I think I made that mistake before too lol

[1032004]

I mean I’m pretty sure there will be people 30 years from now that will probably think Cael Sanderson wrestled for Penn State

[Bigbrog]

15 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Sh1t, I think I made that mistake before too lol

  I made the mistake of thinking of Gable while writing what I wrote.  I agree Lee may be in the conversation if he wins his fourth, but sure where some 3 timers that were hammers at Iowa in the past...even 2 timers.

But Cael is definitely the GOAT at Penn St....as a COACH...LOL

[1032004]

14 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

  I made the mistake of thinking of Gable while writing what I wrote.  I agree Lee may be in the conversation if he wins his fourth, but sure where some 3 timers that were hammers at Iowa in the past...even 2 timers.

But Cael is definitely the GOAT at Penn St....as a COACH...LOL

Did Iowa have any 3x'ers from before freshmen could wrestle?  I think Lee would have to go ahead of any 2x'ers

[Bigbrog]

2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Did Iowa have any 3x'ers from before freshmen could wrestle?  I think Lee would have to go ahead of any 2x'ers

Oh crap...I had it in my head Barry D. was a 3 timer

[Bigbrog]

Wait...Barry was a 3'xer.  Here is a list of them

Fanco Wrestling - Top 10 Best Iowa Hawkeye Wrestlers of All Time

[1032004]

10 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Wait...Barry was a 3'xer.  Here is a list of them

Fanco Wrestling - Top 10 Best Iowa Hawkeye Wrestlers of All Time

Thanks for the link.  Lee becomes #1 if he wins #4 IMO.  

[82bordeaux]

Spencer probably has already cemented himself as the Iowa GOAT. He has his 3 NCAA titles and exceeds the others NCAA scoring and dominance over that period. He is a lock at making the finals barring injury and a heavy favorite regardless if Fix goes down to 125.

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Did Iowa have any 3x'ers from before freshmen could wrestle?  I think Lee would have to go ahead of any 2x'ers

No.

Of their 54 NCAA champions the highest win percentage is 75% (Ed Banach, Jim Zalesky, Barry Davis, Tom Brands, Lincoln McIlravy, Joe Williams, and Spencer Lee {until March, then 100%}).

In the "No Freshman" eras they had but a single 2x'er, Terry McCann from 1954 to 1956.

[Wrestleknownothing]

52 minutes ago, 82bordeaux said:

Spencer probably has already cemented himself as the Iowa GOAT. He has his 3 NCAA titles and exceeds the others NCAA scoring and dominance over that period. He is a lock at making the finals barring injury and a heavy favorite regardless if Fix goes down to 125.

Ed Banach scored an average of 25.625 per tournament. Spencer Lee has scored an average of 25.333 per tournament.

If he fails to win the title (he won't) and scores under 26.5 he will still trail Banach.

[1032004]

1 minute ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Ed Banach scored an average of 25.625 per tournament. Spencer Lee has scored an average of 25.333 per tournament.

If he fails to win the title (he won't) and scores under 26.5 he will still trail Banach.

Interesting, especially considering Lee has the advantage of the 4 point nearfall for less time needed than the old 3.   

But Banach did have 9 losses.

 

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Spencer Lee is the GOAT according to Iowa fans.  Put up a poll on Hawkeye report and list Barry David, Ed Banach, Lincoln McIlravy, whoever, against Spencer Lee and Lee will come out on top.  Lee has his own dedicated tab on page on Iowa's official page...and he's still an active athlete.  This is just short of erecting a lifesize 5'2 statue outside of Carver Hawkeye next to Gable's statue.

 

I guarantee it.

 

Call it recency bias if you want but as of 2023 Spencer Lee is considered the GOAT of Iowa Hawkeye wrestling.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Jimmy Cinnabon

[Bigbrog]

Dude...let it play out as it will take care of itself...relax...sheesh

[1032004]

17 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Spencer Lee is the GOAT according to Iowa fans.  Put up a poll on Hawkeye report and list Barry David, Ed Banach, Lincoln McIlravy, whoever, against Spencer Lee and Lee will come out on top.  Lee has his own dedicated tab on page on Iowa's official page...and he's still an active athlete.  This is just short of erecting a lifesize 5'2 statue outside of Carver Hawkeye next to Gable's statue.

 

I guarantee it.

 

Call it recency bias if you want but as of 2023 Spencer Lee is considered the GOAT of Iowa Hawkeye wrestling.

Are you implying he shouldn't be?    If he wins, it's simple math really.  4 > 3.

[82bordeaux]

I think it is pretty clear that on HR the majority think that Spencer Lee is the GOAT of NCAA wrestling all-time, not just Iowa. Look at a recent thread there. I tried to point out that the facts just don't point to that and was drawn and quartered as a heretic.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Are you implying he shouldn't be?    If he wins, it's simple math really.  4 > 3.

No, I think Spencer Lee is the Iowa GOAT.  I am responding to those other posters on this thread claiming it's Barry Davis or someone else instead.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Just now, 82bordeaux said:

I think it is pretty clear that on HR the majority think that Spencer Lee is the GOAT of NCAA wrestling all-time, not just Iowa. Look at a recent thread there. I tried to point out that the facts just don't point to that and was drawn and quartered as a heretic.

Nah, no matter how much they call Cael Sanderson "Carl" or "Bael" they acknowledge that 159-0 with 4 NCAA titles beats Spencer.

 

Lee, even if he wins his 4th, has lost multiple times in NCAA competition (3?), and been pinned by Piccinninininininini.  That can't trump 159-0 even for the biggest Hawkeye Homer.

[82bordeaux]

1 minute ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Nah, no matter how much they call Cael Sanderson "Carl" or "Bael" they acknowledge that 159-0 with 4 NCAA titles beats Spencer.

 

Lee, even if he wins his 4th, has lost multiple times in NCAA competition (3?), and been pinned by Piccinninininininini.  That can't trump 159-0 even for the biggest Hawkeye Homer.

Have you read through the thread? When people answer my posts on other topics they preface it with "you're the guy that thinks Spencer sucks" because I said he is top 10 all-time if he wins his 4th.

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 minutes ago, 82bordeaux said:

Have you read through the thread? When people answer my posts on other topics they preface it with "you're the guy that thinks Spencer sucks" because I said he is top 10 all-time if he wins his 4th.

So let's play the ranking game, heretic. Here are the 100%ers sorted by Last Title Year (3 for 3 in the freshman ineligible era or 4 for 4). How would you rank them? And do anything you want there Top 5, Top 10, from 1 to Spencer, don't rank them, etc.

I am giving Yianni Diakomihalis and Spencer Lee credit for the win already (like Ladbroke's paying out on tickets before the event is complete). Because.

Name	First Year	Last Title Year	Weight	Total Titles	School
Yianni Diakomihalis	2018	2022	149	4	Cornell
Spencer Lee	2018	2021	125	4	Iowa
Logan Stieber	2012	2015	141	4	Ohio State
Kyle Dake	2010	2013	165	4	Cornell
Cael Sanderson	1999	2002	197	4	Iowa State
Pat Smith	1990	1994	158	4	Oklahoma State
Mike Caruso	1965	1967	123	3	Lehigh
Yojiro Uetake	1964	1966	130	3	Oklahoma State
Gray Simons	1959	1962	115	3	Lock Haven
Larry Hayes	1959	1961	147	3	Iowa State
Dan Hodge	1955	1957	177	3	Oklahoma
Ed Peery	1955	1957	123	3	Pittsburgh
Myron Roderick	1954	1956	130	3	Oklahoma State
Hugh Peery	1952	1954	115	3	Pittsburgh
Bill Koll	1946	1948	147	3	Northern Iowa
David Arndt	1941	1946	136	3	Oklahoma State
Joe McDaniel	1937	1939	121	3	Oklahoma State
Stanley Henson	1937	1939	155	3	Oklahoma State
Wayne Martin	1934	1936	134	3	Oklahoma
Rex Peery	1933	1935	118	3	Oklahoma State
Ross Flood	1933	1935	126	3	Oklahoma State
Conrad Caldwell	1929	1931	175	3	Oklahoma State
Jack van Bebber	1929	1931	165	3	Oklahoma State
Earl McCready	1928	1930	Unlimited	3	Oklahoma State

 

[ionel]

20 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

So let's play the ranking game, heretic. Here are the 100%ers sorted by Last Title Year (3 for 3 in the freshman ineligible era or 4 for 4). How would you rank them? And do anything you want there Top 5, Top 10, from 1 to Spencer, don't rank them, etc.

I am giving Yianni Diakomihalis and Spencer Lee credit for the win already (like Ladbroke's paying out on tickets before the event is complete). Because.

Name	First Year	Last Title Year	Weight	Total Titles	School
Yianni Diakomihalis	2018	2022	149	4	Cornell
Spencer Lee	2018	2021	125	4	Iowa
Logan Stieber	2012	2015	141	4	Ohio State
Kyle Dake	2010	2013	165	4	Cornell
Cael Sanderson	1999	2002	197	4	Iowa State
Pat Smith	1990	1994	158	4	Oklahoma State
Mike Caruso	1965	1967	123	3	Lehigh
Yojiro Uetake	1964	1966	130	3	Oklahoma State
Gray Simons	1959	1962	115	3	Lock Haven
Larry Hayes	1959	1961	147	3	Iowa State
Dan Hodge	1955	1957	177	3	Oklahoma
Ed Peery	1955	1957	123	3	Pittsburgh
Myron Roderick	1954	1956	130	3	Oklahoma State
Hugh Peery	1952	1954	115	3	Pittsburgh
Bill Koll	1946	1948	147	3	Northern Iowa
David Arndt	1941	1946	136	3	Oklahoma State
Joe McDaniel	1937	1939	121	3	Oklahoma State
Stanley Henson	1937	1939	155	3	Oklahoma State
Wayne Martin	1934	1936	134	3	Oklahoma
Rex Peery	1933	1935	118	3	Oklahoma State
Ross Flood	1933	1935	126	3	Oklahoma State
Conrad Caldwell	1929	1931	175	3	Oklahoma State
Jack van Bebber	1929	1931	165	3	Oklahoma State
Earl McCready	1928	1930	Unlimited	3	Oklahoma State

 

Uetake was never pinned, never thrown for 6 was never beaten or even challenged.  He won an Olympic Gold while in college and another after, he also won Midlands when the best of the best post college wrestled Midlands.  No idea who those bozo are you have listed above him.  

[Wrestleknownothing]

4 minutes ago, ionel said:

Uetake was never pinned, never thrown for 6 was never beaten or even challenged.  He won an Olympic Gold while in college and another after, he also won Midlands when the best of the best post college wrestled Midlands.  No idea who those bozo are you have listed above him.  

sorted by Last Title Year

[82bordeaux]

1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

So let's play the ranking game, heretic. Here are the 100%ers sorted by Last Title Year (3 for 3 in the freshman ineligible era or 4 for 4). How would you rank them? And do anything you want there Top 5, Top 10, from 1 to Spencer, don't rank them, etc.

I am giving Yianni Diakomihalis and Spencer Lee credit for the win already (like Ladbroke's paying out on tickets before the event is complete). Because.

Name	First Year	Last Title Year	Weight	Total Titles	School
Yianni Diakomihalis	2018	2022	149	4	Cornell
Spencer Lee	2018	2021	125	4	Iowa
Logan Stieber	2012	2015	141	4	Ohio State
Kyle Dake	2010	2013	165	4	Cornell
Cael Sanderson	1999	2002	197	4	Iowa State
Pat Smith	1990	1994	158	4	Oklahoma State
Mike Caruso	1965	1967	123	3	Lehigh
Yojiro Uetake	1964	1966	130	3	Oklahoma State
Gray Simons	1959	1962	115	3	Lock Haven
Larry Hayes	1959	1961	147	3	Iowa State
Dan Hodge	1955	1957	177	3	Oklahoma
Ed Peery	1955	1957	123	3	Pittsburgh
Myron Roderick	1954	1956	130	3	Oklahoma State
Hugh Peery	1952	1954	115	3	Pittsburgh
Bill Koll	1946	1948	147	3	Northern Iowa
David Arndt	1941	1946	136	3	Oklahoma State
Joe McDaniel	1937	1939	121	3	Oklahoma State
Stanley Henson	1937	1939	155	3	Oklahoma State
Wayne Martin	1934	1936	134	3	Oklahoma
Rex Peery	1933	1935	118	3	Oklahoma State
Ross Flood	1933	1935	126	3	Oklahoma State
Conrad Caldwell	1929	1931	175	3	Oklahoma State
Jack van Bebber	1929	1931	165	3	Oklahoma State
Earl McCready	1928	1930	Unlimited	3	Oklahoma State

 

Cael Sanderson Yojiro Uetake Kyle Dake Dan Hodge Dan Gable Lee Kemp Kyle Dake Pat Smith Bill Koll That's my spitballing answer.