Bigbrog Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Back to the original topic, I think Lee is an elite college wrestler, and definitely should be in discussion as one of the best ever...but man...there sure were a lot of elite wrestlers that have come through Iowa, so it's hard to say unequivocally if he is the Iowa Hawkey's GOAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 41 minutes ago, Bigbrog said: Back to the original topic, I think Lee is an elite college wrestler, and definitely should be in discussion as one of the best ever...but man...there sure were a lot of elite wrestlers that have come through Iowa, so it's hard to say unequivocally if he is the Iowa Hawkey's GOAT. Wasn’t Gable considered their unquestioned goat previously? If that’s the case then Lee tops him with four titles. The only question would be if they had any undefeated three time champs from before freshman could wrestle which I don’t know. But if that was the case those guys should’ve had an argument over Gable too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 46 minutes ago, Bigbrog said: if he is the Iowa Hawkey's GOAT. 2 minutes ago, 1032004 said: Wasn’t Gable considered their unquestioned goat previously? If that’s the case then Lee tops him with four titles. The only question would be if they had any undefeated three time champs from before freshman could wrestle which I don’t know. But if that was the case those guys should’ve had an argument over Gable too ??? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Just now, ionel said: ??? Sh1t, I think I made that mistake before too lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 I mean I’m pretty sure there will be people 30 years from now that will probably think Cael Sanderson wrestled for Penn State Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbrog Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 15 minutes ago, 1032004 said: Sh1t, I think I made that mistake before too lol I made the mistake of thinking of Gable while writing what I wrote. I agree Lee may be in the conversation if he wins his fourth, but sure where some 3 timers that were hammers at Iowa in the past...even 2 timers. But Cael is definitely the GOAT at Penn St....as a COACH...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 14 minutes ago, Bigbrog said: I made the mistake of thinking of Gable while writing what I wrote. I agree Lee may be in the conversation if he wins his fourth, but sure where some 3 timers that were hammers at Iowa in the past...even 2 timers. But Cael is definitely the GOAT at Penn St....as a COACH...LOL Did Iowa have any 3x'ers from before freshmen could wrestle? I think Lee would have to go ahead of any 2x'ers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbrog Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, 1032004 said: Did Iowa have any 3x'ers from before freshmen could wrestle? I think Lee would have to go ahead of any 2x'ers Oh crap...I had it in my head Barry D. was a 3 timer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbrog Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Wait...Barry was a 3'xer. Here is a list of them Fanco Wrestling - Top 10 Best Iowa Hawkeye Wrestlers of All Time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, Bigbrog said: Wait...Barry was a 3'xer. Here is a list of them Fanco Wrestling - Top 10 Best Iowa Hawkeye Wrestlers of All Time Thanks for the link. Lee becomes #1 if he wins #4 IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82bordeaux Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Spencer probably has already cemented himself as the Iowa GOAT. He has his 3 NCAA titles and exceeds the others NCAA scoring and dominance over that period. He is a lock at making the finals barring injury and a heavy favorite regardless if Fix goes down to 125. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, 1032004 said: Did Iowa have any 3x'ers from before freshmen could wrestle? I think Lee would have to go ahead of any 2x'ers No. Of their 54 NCAA champions the highest win percentage is 75% (Ed Banach, Jim Zalesky, Barry Davis, Tom Brands, Lincoln McIlravy, Joe Williams, and Spencer Lee {until March, then 100%}). In the "No Freshman" eras they had but a single 2x'er, Terry McCann from 1954 to 1956. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 52 minutes ago, 82bordeaux said: Spencer probably has already cemented himself as the Iowa GOAT. He has his 3 NCAA titles and exceeds the others NCAA scoring and dominance over that period. He is a lock at making the finals barring injury and a heavy favorite regardless if Fix goes down to 125. Ed Banach scored an average of 25.625 per tournament. Spencer Lee has scored an average of 25.333 per tournament. If he fails to win the title (he won't) and scores under 26.5 he will still trail Banach. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Wrestleknownothing said: Ed Banach scored an average of 25.625 per tournament. Spencer Lee has scored an average of 25.333 per tournament. If he fails to win the title (he won't) and scores under 26.5 he will still trail Banach. Interesting, especially considering Lee has the advantage of the 4 point nearfall for less time needed than the old 3. But Banach did have 9 losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Cinnabon Posted January 10, 2023 Author Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) Spencer Lee is the GOAT according to Iowa fans. Put up a poll on Hawkeye report and list Barry David, Ed Banach, Lincoln McIlravy, whoever, against Spencer Lee and Lee will come out on top. Lee has his own dedicated tab on page on Iowa's official page...and he's still an active athlete. This is just short of erecting a lifesize 5'2 statue outside of Carver Hawkeye next to Gable's statue. I guarantee it. Call it recency bias if you want but as of 2023 Spencer Lee is considered the GOAT of Iowa Hawkeye wrestling. Edited January 10, 2023 by Jimmy Cinnabon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbrog Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Dude...let it play out as it will take care of itself...relax...sheesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 17 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said: Spencer Lee is the GOAT according to Iowa fans. Put up a poll on Hawkeye report and list Barry David, Ed Banach, Lincoln McIlravy, whoever, against Spencer Lee and Lee will come out on top. Lee has his own dedicated tab on page on Iowa's official page...and he's still an active athlete. This is just short of erecting a lifesize 5'2 statue outside of Carver Hawkeye next to Gable's statue. I guarantee it. Call it recency bias if you want but as of 2023 Spencer Lee is considered the GOAT of Iowa Hawkeye wrestling. Are you implying he shouldn't be? If he wins, it's simple math really. 4 > 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82bordeaux Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 I think it is pretty clear that on HR the majority think that Spencer Lee is the GOAT of NCAA wrestling all-time, not just Iowa. Look at a recent thread there. I tried to point out that the facts just don't point to that and was drawn and quartered as a heretic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Cinnabon Posted January 10, 2023 Author Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, 1032004 said: Are you implying he shouldn't be? If he wins, it's simple math really. 4 > 3. No, I think Spencer Lee is the Iowa GOAT. I am responding to those other posters on this thread claiming it's Barry Davis or someone else instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Cinnabon Posted January 10, 2023 Author Share Posted January 10, 2023 Just now, 82bordeaux said: I think it is pretty clear that on HR the majority think that Spencer Lee is the GOAT of NCAA wrestling all-time, not just Iowa. Look at a recent thread there. I tried to point out that the facts just don't point to that and was drawn and quartered as a heretic. Nah, no matter how much they call Cael Sanderson "Carl" or "Bael" they acknowledge that 159-0 with 4 NCAA titles beats Spencer. Lee, even if he wins his 4th, has lost multiple times in NCAA competition (3?), and been pinned by Piccinninininininini. That can't trump 159-0 even for the biggest Hawkeye Homer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82bordeaux Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said: Nah, no matter how much they call Cael Sanderson "Carl" or "Bael" they acknowledge that 159-0 with 4 NCAA titles beats Spencer. Lee, even if he wins his 4th, has lost multiple times in NCAA competition (3?), and been pinned by Piccinninininininini. That can't trump 159-0 even for the biggest Hawkeye Homer. Have you read through the thread? When people answer my posts on other topics they preface it with "you're the guy that thinks Spencer sucks" because I said he is top 10 all-time if he wins his 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, 82bordeaux said: Have you read through the thread? When people answer my posts on other topics they preface it with "you're the guy that thinks Spencer sucks" because I said he is top 10 all-time if he wins his 4th. So let's play the ranking game, heretic. Here are the 100%ers sorted by Last Title Year (3 for 3 in the freshman ineligible era or 4 for 4). How would you rank them? And do anything you want there Top 5, Top 10, from 1 to Spencer, don't rank them, etc. I am giving Yianni Diakomihalis and Spencer Lee credit for the win already (like Ladbroke's paying out on tickets before the event is complete). Because. Name First Year Last Title Year Weight Total Titles School Yianni Diakomihalis 2018 2022 149 4 Cornell Spencer Lee 2018 2021 125 4 Iowa Logan Stieber 2012 2015 141 4 Ohio State Kyle Dake 2010 2013 165 4 Cornell Cael Sanderson 1999 2002 197 4 Iowa State Pat Smith 1990 1994 158 4 Oklahoma State Mike Caruso 1965 1967 123 3 Lehigh Yojiro Uetake 1964 1966 130 3 Oklahoma State Gray Simons 1959 1962 115 3 Lock Haven Larry Hayes 1959 1961 147 3 Iowa State Dan Hodge 1955 1957 177 3 Oklahoma Ed Peery 1955 1957 123 3 Pittsburgh Myron Roderick 1954 1956 130 3 Oklahoma State Hugh Peery 1952 1954 115 3 Pittsburgh Bill Koll 1946 1948 147 3 Northern Iowa David Arndt 1941 1946 136 3 Oklahoma State Joe McDaniel 1937 1939 121 3 Oklahoma State Stanley Henson 1937 1939 155 3 Oklahoma State Wayne Martin 1934 1936 134 3 Oklahoma Rex Peery 1933 1935 118 3 Oklahoma State Ross Flood 1933 1935 126 3 Oklahoma State Conrad Caldwell 1929 1931 175 3 Oklahoma State Jack van Bebber 1929 1931 165 3 Oklahoma State Earl McCready 1928 1930 Unlimited 3 Oklahoma State Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 20 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: So let's play the ranking game, heretic. Here are the 100%ers sorted by Last Title Year (3 for 3 in the freshman ineligible era or 4 for 4). How would you rank them? And do anything you want there Top 5, Top 10, from 1 to Spencer, don't rank them, etc. I am giving Yianni Diakomihalis and Spencer Lee credit for the win already (like Ladbroke's paying out on tickets before the event is complete). Because. Name First Year Last Title Year Weight Total Titles School Yianni Diakomihalis 2018 2022 149 4 Cornell Spencer Lee 2018 2021 125 4 Iowa Logan Stieber 2012 2015 141 4 Ohio State Kyle Dake 2010 2013 165 4 Cornell Cael Sanderson 1999 2002 197 4 Iowa State Pat Smith 1990 1994 158 4 Oklahoma State Mike Caruso 1965 1967 123 3 Lehigh Yojiro Uetake 1964 1966 130 3 Oklahoma State Gray Simons 1959 1962 115 3 Lock Haven Larry Hayes 1959 1961 147 3 Iowa State Dan Hodge 1955 1957 177 3 Oklahoma Ed Peery 1955 1957 123 3 Pittsburgh Myron Roderick 1954 1956 130 3 Oklahoma State Hugh Peery 1952 1954 115 3 Pittsburgh Bill Koll 1946 1948 147 3 Northern Iowa David Arndt 1941 1946 136 3 Oklahoma State Joe McDaniel 1937 1939 121 3 Oklahoma State Stanley Henson 1937 1939 155 3 Oklahoma State Wayne Martin 1934 1936 134 3 Oklahoma Rex Peery 1933 1935 118 3 Oklahoma State Ross Flood 1933 1935 126 3 Oklahoma State Conrad Caldwell 1929 1931 175 3 Oklahoma State Jack van Bebber 1929 1931 165 3 Oklahoma State Earl McCready 1928 1930 Unlimited 3 Oklahoma State Uetake was never pinned, never thrown for 6 was never beaten or even challenged. He won an Olympic Gold while in college and another after, he also won Midlands when the best of the best post college wrestled Midlands. No idea who those bozo are you have listed above him. 2 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, ionel said: Uetake was never pinned, never thrown for 6 was never beaten or even challenged. He won an Olympic Gold while in college and another after, he also won Midlands when the best of the best post college wrestled Midlands. No idea who those bozo are you have listed above him. sorted by Last Title Year Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82bordeaux Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said: So let's play the ranking game, heretic. Here are the 100%ers sorted by Last Title Year (3 for 3 in the freshman ineligible era or 4 for 4). How would you rank them? And do anything you want there Top 5, Top 10, from 1 to Spencer, don't rank them, etc. I am giving Yianni Diakomihalis and Spencer Lee credit for the win already (like Ladbroke's paying out on tickets before the event is complete). Because. Name First Year Last Title Year Weight Total Titles School Yianni Diakomihalis 2018 2022 149 4 Cornell Spencer Lee 2018 2021 125 4 Iowa Logan Stieber 2012 2015 141 4 Ohio State Kyle Dake 2010 2013 165 4 Cornell Cael Sanderson 1999 2002 197 4 Iowa State Pat Smith 1990 1994 158 4 Oklahoma State Mike Caruso 1965 1967 123 3 Lehigh Yojiro Uetake 1964 1966 130 3 Oklahoma State Gray Simons 1959 1962 115 3 Lock Haven Larry Hayes 1959 1961 147 3 Iowa State Dan Hodge 1955 1957 177 3 Oklahoma Ed Peery 1955 1957 123 3 Pittsburgh Myron Roderick 1954 1956 130 3 Oklahoma State Hugh Peery 1952 1954 115 3 Pittsburgh Bill Koll 1946 1948 147 3 Northern Iowa David Arndt 1941 1946 136 3 Oklahoma State Joe McDaniel 1937 1939 121 3 Oklahoma State Stanley Henson 1937 1939 155 3 Oklahoma State Wayne Martin 1934 1936 134 3 Oklahoma Rex Peery 1933 1935 118 3 Oklahoma State Ross Flood 1933 1935 126 3 Oklahoma State Conrad Caldwell 1929 1931 175 3 Oklahoma State Jack van Bebber 1929 1931 165 3 Oklahoma State Earl McCready 1928 1930 Unlimited 3 Oklahoma State Cael Sanderson Yojiro Uetake Kyle Dake Dan Hodge Dan Gable Lee Kemp Kyle Dake Pat Smith Bill Koll That's my spitballing answer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnathon McGinty St. Joseph's Regional, New Jersey Class of 2026 Committed to Oklahoma Projected Weight: 125, 133
Robert Connelley Red Bank Catholic, New Jersey Class of 2025 Committed to Sacred Heart Projected Weight: 157
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