At the Debate Tonight

[jross]

Words are a trap!  What happens if you don't care for a baby after it is born.  It dies.  There are multiple cases of babies being born alive and the care providers let it die.  Believe it or not!

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 minute ago, jross said:

Words are a trap!  What happens if you don't care for a baby after it is born.  It dies.  There are multiple cases of babies being born alive and the care providers let it die.  Believe it or not!

There are many cases of many bad things. So what. It is illegal to kill a baby in all 50 states. You can (need to) perform all manner of mental gymnastics to defend Trump statements, but display impressive middle aged rigidity when it comes to Harris statements.

[jross]

5 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Pretty entertaining seeing MAGA all up in arms this morning about thought of a presidential candidate telling lies.  Obviously MAGA will not stand for or support anyone who lies

The best damage control they can come up with today is “yes he is horrible but they are more horribler!!  She lied!” and “nuclear war nuclear war!!!”

Of course, when that is all that Lord Leader will say over and over again, what else do they have to parrot?  
 

Behind the scenes though: “Jesus Christ, look at what we got ourselves into”

Watch for the fever to start to break a little heavier now…

Trump is a bad man.  Biden is a bad man.  Harris is a bad woman.  

Quality of life was better (for me) under Trump than the previous four years.

Quality of life is worse under Biden than it has been in my lifetime, and the future is setup to be even worse for my kids.

Trump's policies are better for USA citizen families now and later.

[jross]

I don't recall anyone stating Trump is a good character person who never lies. MAGA here wants consistency and objectivity. You can't have the moderators fact check only one candidate, refer to true facts as lies, and then ignore lies from the other candidate.

The moderators and their ilk are outrageous, egregious, appalling.

[PortaJohn]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

I think that's a bit too cynical. Some voters will be swayed one way or the other through the debates. I'll bet they were at the last one. So this one too. How many, is the question. Probably far fewer than will be in actuality. But that is the power of hope. 'I was convinced by this person and I'm not an idiot. Surely others will see the light and support my candidate too.' That 'logic' swings both ways and often not for the best reasons. 

Flawed thinkers, we are. 

Not cynical at all.  My reasoning is based on data.  Trump lost his debates to Clinton.  He also lost to Biden.  Won one election.  Lost the other.  People know who they are going to vote for at the start of the election cycle.  

[wrestlingguy]

12 minutes ago, jross said:

I don't recall anyone stating Trump is a good character person who never lies. MAGA here wants consistency and objectivity. You can't have the moderators fact check only one candidate, refer to true facts as lies, and then ignore lies from the other candidate.

The moderators and their ilk are outrageous, egregious, appalling.

I don't know how they get away with it but look at this ABC News article that supposedly fact-checked the debate. Even it has lies and has the media spin on it. The people that blindly trust the media are a huge part of the problem.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fact-checking-kamala-harris-donald-trumps-1st-presidential/story?id=113567997

[red viking]

43 minutes ago, jross said:

Trump is a bad man.  Biden is a bad man.  Harris is a bad woman.  

Quality of life was better (for me) under Trump than the previous four years.

Quality of life is worse under Biden than it has been in my lifetime, and the future is setup to be even worse for my kids.

Trump's policies are better for USA citizen families now and later.

You should look at the decisions that you've made that have caused a downward trajectory in your life instead of blaming politicians. 

[jross]

Guttmacher.org research indicates 9 STATES AND THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA DO NOT RESTRICT ABORTION BASED ON GESTATIONAL DURATION.  And while its rare to have late term abortions, it is legal and does occur annually (10K) even for entirely elective choices (5K) per this fact check by the Washington Post.

Sure, actively killing the born baby is illegal... But neglecting a born-alive and allowing it to die is legal.  What are words for this?  Neglect?  Passive euthanasia?  It's legal.

Look at what Walz (Minnesota) did... (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/laws/2023/0/70/laws.4.56.0#laws.4.56.0).  They changed it so the born alive baby no longer is lawfully protected with lifesaving measures.

 

[Offthemat]

There were no moderators, they were associate competitors.  Not once did they contradict any of the many confirmed lies Harris repeated.  Too many of the questions were obvious set-ups and her answers too practiced.  Serious, intelligent people noticed this.  Alas, many voters are not serious and intelligent.  
 

I personally would hope that if we are to have a woman president, it wouldn’t be one who would kill her own baby.  While it’s true that it’s illegal in all 50 states to strangle a newborn, there are states where it is not illegal to allow a baby born alive as the result of a botched abortion, to be left untended, to strangle on its own.  Dimocrats defeated the bill that would have required life supporting care for these babies.  Barbaric. 
 

Serious, intelligent people see that one of the candidates wants to end or prevent all wars, all the killing.  The other is content to provide the weapons for now, your sons and daughters if necessary, to promote her authority.  If she’d be willing to kill her own, she’ll have no qualms killing yours. 

[WrestlingRasta]

33 minutes ago, red viking said:

You should look at the decisions that you've made that have caused a downward trajectory in your life instead of blaming politicians. 

People only want self accountability when it appeases them, but when the opportunity to blame other arises….
 

Me, and just about every middle class friend I have, was in a little bit better situation with Bush than before, and then with Obama than before, and than with Trump than before, and even through the last couple years.  The last two years my household fought cancer and the aftermath of a cat 5 hurricane that destroyed our home.  Sure….my savings is depleted some from what it was two years ago, that’s what it was there for. But day to day, week to week, we’re doing fine over here. 
 

Does who the president is have an impact, of course. But it’s very minimal when compared to our own personal choices and actions. 

[jross]

24 minutes ago, red viking said:

You should look at the decisions that you've made that have caused a downward trajectory in your life instead of blaming politicians. 

Despite earning significantly more money, and my wife returning to work after a decade off, I find that we can afford less than before.  My kids are looking at insane college, insurance, and housing costs. My retirement plan will now need to be extended by a decade to meet my previous goals.  I was coerced to covid vaccinate so as not to lose my job.  Many of my work colleagues have left the company due to the downstream impact of politician driven policy outcomes.  

The media I once trusted is influencing public opinion in misleading ways and the public is too blissfully ignorant to understand.  The people leading the country try to say what is good is bad and the bad is not happening.

The current country trajectory (bigger government, less freedom, more inflation, more unnecessary expense, more spending) is shit and there are too many people that want the status quo.

I will be fine and have plenty to be grateful for. 

You are off target.

 

[wrestlingguy]

12 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

People only want self accountability when it appeases them, but when the opportunity to blame other arises….
 

Me, and just about every middle class friend I have, was in a little bit better situation with Bush than before, and then with Obama than before, and than with Trump than before, and even through the last couple years.  The last two years my household fought cancer and the aftermath of a cat 5 hurricane that destroyed our home.  Sure….my savings is depleted some from what it was two years ago, that’s what it was there for. But day to day, week to week, we’re doing fine over here. 
 

Does who the president is have an impact, of course. But it’s very minimal when compared to our own personal choices and actions. 

The politicians we elect have a direct impact on our well being. Politicians dictate how much tax we pay, what policies are law, how federal programs are run, etc. I am glad you are fine but there are definitely Americans that are not. There are certain necessities like food, housing, insurance, and healthcare that are not optional that have increased so much that you can't just go without to compensate. 

[Offthemat]

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

31 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

 

Victor Davis Hanson might want to fact check his fact checking of the moderator's fact checking. The one example he gave of the moderator being wrong, was wrong.

And what anyone remembers of the second 2012 debate is precisely nothing. 

[WrestlingRasta]

1 hour ago, wrestlingguy said:

The politicians we elect have a direct impact on our well being. Politicians dictate how much tax we pay, what policies are law, how federal programs are run, etc. I am glad you are fine but there are definitely Americans that are not. There are certain necessities like food, housing, insurance, and healthcare that are not optional that have increased so much that you can't just go without to compensate. 

Which is why I said (and I knew someone would act like I didn’t, I’ve seen this movie before): “Does the president have an impact, of course”

That is true, as is my second part of that statement.  

 

[Offthemat]

17 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Victor Davis Hanson might want to fact check his fact checking of the moderator's fact checking. The one example he gave of the moderator being wrong, was wrong.

And what anyone remembers of the second 2012 debate is precisely nothing. 

Can you explain why babies that are born viable and alive, as the result of a botched abortion, died?

[Offthemat]

4 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Which is why I said (and I knew someone would act like I didn’t, I’ve seen this movie before): “Does the president have an impact, of course”

That is true, as is my second part of that statement.  

 

Can you give examples of improvements to the country, brought about by the current administration?

[wrestlingguy]

9 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Which is why I said (and I knew someone would act like I didn’t, I’ve seen this movie before): “Does the president have an impact, of course”

That is true, as is my second part of that statement.  

 

You said it's very minimal which is what I would have a disagreement with.

[WrestlingRasta]

5 minutes ago, wrestlingguy said:

You said it's very minimal which is what I would have a disagreement with.

Yes, you left that out in your response.  And we’ll agree to disagree. 

[WrestlingRasta]

Here’s the quote from the Virginia governor in response to a question about how the proposed bill would play out (five years ago, before current administration was even in office, so not sure what it has to do about them unless we’re stretching) 

 

“If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen,” Northam says in a videofrom the 2019 interview being shared online. “The infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”

 

And here is the literature in the proposed bill. Nothing at all in here about leaving a baby to die.   But that’s the kind of thing that gets at people’s emotions and in an uproar, doesn’t matter that it’s not true, it serves its purpose:

 

 

Abortion; eliminate certain requirements. Eliminates the requirement that an abortion in the second trimester of pregnancy and prior to the third trimester be performed in a hospital. The bill eliminates all the procedures and processes, including the performance of an ultrasound, required to effect a woman's informed written consent to the performance of an abortion; however, the bill does not change the requirement that a woman's informed written consent be first obtained. The bill eliminates the requirement that two other physicians certify that a third trimester abortion is necessary to prevent the woman's death or impairment of her mental or physical health, as well as the need to find that any such impairment to the woman's health would be substantial and irremediable. The bill also removes language classifying facilities that perform five or more first-trimester abortions per month as hospitals for the purpose of complying with regulations establishing minimum standards for hospitals.

 

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

17 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Can you explain why babies that are born viable and alive, as the result of a botched abortion, died?

Can you explain why you ask dumb non-sequitur questions?

[Wrestleknownothing]

12 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Can you give examples of improvements to the country, brought about by the current administration?

Infinitely fewer attempts to interfere with the peaceful transfer of power.

[Offthemat]

I can say that you can’t support your statements and feign confusion to no avail. 

Edited September 11 by Offthemat

[WrestlingRasta]

20 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Can you give examples of improvements to the country, brought about by the current administration?

I’m making more income that I was two years ago, my investments are better than they were two years ago, my rental is always full,  my home is worth more than it was two years ago, even though we experienced a little post hurricane slide in the local market, and my community was ravaged two years ago but is coming back very very nicely, in large part due to the huge immigrant population around here who absolutely work their ass off.   All this while my household lost half its income over the winter. 
 

Now, I’m only speaking for myself and my community, and I will only speak for myself and my community,  because A) I don’t pretend to know everything about the country because Twitter told me so, and 2) because what actions are taken by me and within my community have a much greater impact than the stroke of a president’s pen. 

Edited September 11 by WrestlingRasta

[Offthemat]

You must have missed the “brought about by the current administration.” and the “this country” parts.