Are Republicans Insecure About Their Masculinity?

[Scouts Honor]

17 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

why are you?

im not afraid of women.

i am trying to protect women from misogynists like you

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18 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Didn't someone just uncover a plot to pay right wing influencers to help 45 and hurt KH?

Yes.

Who bank rolled it? 

Russia.

Why do you think that is? 

Because 45 will be tougher on Russia with sanctions and trade embargoes and... oh ya the war they are currently fighting against our ally. 

This is a joke. I laughed. Thanks. 

lol

[Scouts Honor]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

You clearly don't understand the point of your argument if that is your take away. 

My point on this topic has always been that you are simply scared of what society will look like if trans people are allowed the freedoms that they are asking for. You are fighting against giving those freedoms. Freedoms that you have failed to prove are harmful in any way other than, 'its just common sense'. When you pose a straw man question as a rebuttal you are either too ignorant of how to have a conversation about this, too emotional and thus resorting to fallacious tactics(don't be embarrassed it happens to just about everyone that is losing an argument), or you're doing it on purpose. 

I'm happy to explain things so that other people can read this and hopefully do better. But we've gone round and round about this. You have offered nothing to indicate you understand or are trying to understand the situation of trans people. But are solely interested in rejecting the rights and requests of a vulnerable population. For what reason? You feel(emotionally) that it is dangerous. I disagree and there is plenty of information that backs me up. If we want to just leave it there we can. You are wrong in this situation and as I've pointed out your position mirrors that of countless similar situations in the past. You, mistakenly, think it will endanger society, women, and/or children if this group is allowed into the melting pot. Again, you're wrong. I can't stress that enough. If it makes you feel better to have a tantrum about it, go ahead. But every time to mention something about trans people or just about anything disgustingly disingenuous about a vulnerable population for the sake of you maintaining the feeling comfort with your place in life. I will ask you to prove what you say is true. If you can't handle that. Sorry not sorry. 

trans people can do what they want but infringing on women's spaces is not their RIGHT.

your whole argument is based on that farce... which is why no point you make can be valid.

[Bigbrog]

Wow @ThreePointTakedown you sure like to hear yourself talk don't you?  In between your nonsensical ramblings I couldn't help pick up on a common theme you use in your "debate"...comparing slavery and what black people went through with trans people is...well...sick and unbelievable.  HOW in your little brain does that even become a thing that you think about yet even put out in internet land to use as some kind of point?  There literally is NO comparison to the two situations.  One is a mental disorder (not calling it bad so don't get your panties in a bunch) and the other was stuff that was DONE TO them.  Very noticeable and funny you couldn't point to any federal or state laws that are oppressive to Trans by the way.  But rather say a trans person's life is in danger for using a bathroom of their biological sex. To me that is, well, a form a mental illness...on your part.

[Scouts Honor]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

One side wants rich to get richer. If that's you and that's all you care about. Vote that way.

 

speaking of strawmen

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1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

But no, I'm not a coward, again 45's just a moron. 

so you are afraid... 

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1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Great question and one I hear from the conservatives, 'why do feel it is okay to push YOUR views on other people and insist they conform to your stance and the language you choose to use, but it isn't okay for others to turn around and do the same to you just the opposite opinion'?

It was the same question and/or sentiment that has been used to justify all sorts of societal maladies such as the abolition of slavery, women suffrage, civil rights, gays in the military, and now trans rights. Sorry that your ideology forces you to see these PEOPLE as less than people and in so less deserving of equality. But you're wrong. At every step, in each of the above mentioned situations, you and people that espoused that same sentiment have been wrong. The next time something like this comes up, and it will, you'll still be wrong. Will you have learned? Hopefully, but I'm not holding my breath. 

To answer the second part of the question. Because the opposite of giving someone equal rights is oppression. We don't do that here. Or better yet, we try not to. We still do quite a bit because people like you still have their hands on levers of power and decide who is worthy of equality and who isn't and still decide to hold people back for infantile reasons that are couched in the very question that you asked. 

"Funny part is...99%" not really an important point but I'll tackle it because this is going to be long anyway... This is a BS stat and indicative of how you see yourself and how much support you feel you have an issue. There is plenty of name calling on this site. 

Science: why is it you site and grasp onto one point of 'science' but ignore the other ones on this topic. There may be two ways X and Y chromosomes arrange but there is a variety of ways that they are expressed. If my memory serves we have already talked about XX people having genitalia that typically appears on people with XY and vise versa. These things aren't as cut and dry as you want or portray them to be. And digging your heels into the 'there's only two sexes' as if that is an answer to anything on this topic is childish and ignorant of all the information we currently have on the topic. 

And yes, denying people their dignity on the basis of 'science' as you put it is transphobic because of all the widely available information that tells you that holding that position is dangerous to trans people. It is. Regardless of your feelings. Denying them, out of whole clothe, the simplicity of using a bathroom they prefer to associate with is putting their lives in danger. You prefer the lives of your family and I understand that but you have to understand that making and holding to these imaginary rules(and bathroom rules are imaginary or at least quite flexible) put trans people in danger. You can, and I feel you have, said quite matter of factly that you don't care about the lives of trans people and that IS transphobic. You're so scared of them that you would rather see them die or come to harm than use the bathroom of their choosing. 

Those opinions do oppress people. Sorry you don't want to see it. But they do. Denying something that everyone else has IS oppression. 

There are victims. I am not one of them, but I am happy to stand up for them. But there are and will continue to be as long as people like you hold opinions like this. 

I think you may have misinterpreted what I meant by 'Civil Rights'. What I meant was, your opinion on this topic is similar to those used to try to keep the Civil Rights Act from being passed or Women's Suffrage or a myriad of other things that small groups had to fight society for to establish equal rights under the law. 

But what rights do they not have, right now some of them don't have the right to try to get specific forms of health care. That's a right isn't it? I know you can't say 'Yes' because it'll open up a whole can of worms you're not ready to talk about. But suffice it to say you're wrong again. 

I suggest you read this article. It articulates a position opposite yours that you should consider: Harvard Crimson

This was fun, thanks. 

so you want to make everyone slaves to the left's agenda? 

[Scouts Honor]

 

[ThreePointTakedown]

4 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

trans people can do what they want but infringing on women's spaces is not their RIGHT.

your whole argument is based on that farce... which is why no point you make can be valid.

This is the next arc of the argument put up by conservatives. Still the same old song and dance, 'think of the women'. Not that, I imagine, you cared much about them before. Now that you have a 'common enemy' you get behind the cause of women. Shockingly disingenuous but also not surprising. I don't have to talk about this any more. I'll just let things play out. They will go the way of my opinions. There is not doubt in my mind. Its a guarantee. So I'll just leave you to squirm and yell into the void.  

[wrestlingguy]

1 minute ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

This is the next arc of the argument put up by conservatives. Still the same old song and dance, 'think of the women'. Not that, I imagine, you cared much about them before. Now that you have a 'common enemy' you get behind the cause of women. Shockingly disingenuous but also not surprising. I don't have to talk about this any more. I'll just let things play out. They will go the way of my opinions. There is not doubt in my mind. Its a guarantee. So I'll just leave you to squirm and yell into the void.  

Pretty presumptuous don't you think? 

[ThreePointTakedown]

4 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Wow @ThreePointTakedown you sure like to hear yourself talk don't you?  In between your nonsensical ramblings I couldn't help pick up on a common theme you use in your "debate"...comparing slavery and what black people went through with trans people is...well...sick and unbelievable.  HOW in your little brain does that even become a thing that you think about yet even put out in internet land to use as some kind of point?  There literally is NO comparison to the two situations.  One is a mental disorder (not calling it bad so don't get your panties in a bunch) and the other was stuff that was DONE TO them.  Very noticeable and funny you couldn't point to any federal or state laws that are oppressive to Trans by the way.  But rather say a trans person's life is in danger for using a bathroom of their biological sex. To me that is, well, a form a mental illness...on your part.

It isn't a mental disorder across the board. I thought I addressed that in a previous post. There is gender dysphoria but it is only a thing if it is, in fact, diagnosed by a professional(so not all people have it by default) and come with certain standards that not all Trans people fall within. 

To explain: NOT. ALL. TRANS PEOPLE. HAVE. GENDER. DYSPHORIA. as much as you might want them all to fall under the 'mental illness' umbrella. They don't. 

I do ramble. But I find it cathartic to engage with people with contrary points of view to mine. Although I was hoping for opponents with better... technique I guess. Y'all just recycle the same three tactics and hope it makes your point. It rarely, if ever, does. 

If you added my post to your comment it would be easier for people to connect the dots between your comment and mine. That might be by design. Because that is not at all what I did. I'll explain again.... Trying to deny equal rights to Trans People(ie, using whichever bathroom they see fit or necessary health care) for reasons as flimsy as, 'it will be dangerous for women, children, society, the economy, and/or everyone' without much or any evidence to support the claim is akin to those that fought against freeing slaves for EXACTLY. THE. SAME. REASONS. They were wrong then. They are wrong now. The difference is that the target has changed. The arguments haven't. But that is hardly surprising. I know you think that the emotional trigger of slavery will let you regain the high ground(you never had it if you're suppressing the rights of people in America) which is what you are advocating. You're privileged and you are trying to keep another group out of the club. Its sicken to have to have this conversation today. With all the information we have available. That someone could be so blissfully ignorant about how their actions and ideas could effect those around them. They do. But lets embrace that you made it to the party, however late your arrival. 

Cheers!

[ThreePointTakedown]

16 minutes ago, wrestlingguy said:

Pretty presumptuous don't you think? 

Nope. This is exactly how these arguments go. Each time they get knocked down. Which they have. They move the goal posts and pivot their argument to a group they claim needs their help. Someone suggested that I am misogynistic that I am in favor of trans people winning human rights that it will be at the detriment of women. Funny that not many women think or say that. That women need to be saved from invaders and that the only ones that can stand up for them are men. I have never found that to be the case. In fact I think that is almost as misogynistic as you can get. Using women as a pawn to try to deny a group equal rights.

This all says to me that you don't care for women except for how they can help you get what you want. Which is the denigration of a different group on their behalf. 

So no its not presumptuous. Pretty much on brand for ignorant people. They don't have much of an imagination. Its fight or flight and their reactions are easy to predict. This is a wrestling community, we've all seen it. No one is shocked except for the ones losing. But they never learn. 

[wrestlingguy]

28 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Nope. This is exactly how these arguments go. Each time they get knocked down. Which they have. They move the goal posts and pivot their argument to a group they claim needs their help. Someone suggested that I am misogynistic that I am in favor of trans people winning human rights that it will be at the detriment of women. Funny that not many women think or say that. That women need to be saved from invaders and that the only ones that can stand up for them are men. I have never found that to be the case. In fact I think that is almost as misogynistic as you can get. Using women as a pawn to try to deny a group equal rights.

This all says to me that you don't care for women except for how they can help you get what you want. Which is the denigration of a different group on their behalf. 

So no its not presumptuous. Pretty much on brand for ignorant people. They don't have much of an imagination. Its fight or flight and their reactions are easy to predict. This is a wrestling community, we've all seen it. No one is shocked except for the ones losing. But they never learn. 

I don't think anyone has a savior complex for women when it comes to the issue of transgender people. If we are talking about sports I think biological men don't belong in biological women's sports. If we are talking about bathrooms I would say the same. The way I look at it is, if you let men in women's restrooms then sex predators will also "identify" as a woman to seek more victims. Supporting this doesn't make anyone an ist, ism, phobe, etc. 

[Offthemat]

Of course not.  Men will stand against bullies and predators no matter who they go after, be they from the unborn to the elderly, male or female. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

52 minutes ago, wrestlingguy said:

I don't think anyone has a savior complex for women when it comes to the issue of transgender people. If we are talking about sports I think biological men don't belong in biological women's sports. If we are talking about bathrooms I would say the same. The way I look at it is, if you let men in women's restrooms then sex predators will also "identify" as a woman to seek more victims. Supporting this doesn't make anyone an ist, ism, phobe, etc. 

That is a fair point. But that is an easy way to shut down anything. 'A bad thing might happen, so we shouldn't do it'. Bad people will find ways to do bad things. If we keep trans people from being able to use the bathroom they feel comfortable with because bad people will do bad things. Then we are just punishing trans people. 

And as I've mentioned before, that excuse of 'bad people will take advantage of this new situation and prey upon x,y, or z people' have been used to oppose just about every group attaining equal rights in American history. Its not impressive and unimaginative and has been wrong EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. 

Because bad people have already thought about this situation and have probably tried to take advantage of it.

So should we sacrifice giving people equal rights vs bad people doing bad things? 

[Scouts Honor]

2 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

. Not that, I imagine, you cared much about them before

assuming facts not in evidence

this is the only thing i EVER cared about fool

my daughter in a locker room, rest room or sports team

 

[Scouts Honor]

2 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

This is the next arc of the argument put up by conservatives. Still the same old song and dance, 'think of the women'. Not that, I imagine, you cared much about them before. Now that you have a 'common enemy' you get behind the cause of women. Shockingly disingenuous but also not surprising. I don't have to talk about this any more. I'll just let things play out. They will go the way of my opinions. There is not doubt in my mind. Its a guarantee. So I'll just leave you to squirm and yell into the void.  

you just have nothing and never have.

[Scouts Honor]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

I do ramble. But I find it cathartic to engage with people with contrary points of view to mine. 

 

so cathartic you are bored right? 

[Scouts Honor]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

This all says to me that you don't care for women except for how they can help you get what you want. Which is the denigration of a different group on their behalf. 

 

facts not in evidence

[Scouts Honor]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

This all says to me that you don't care for women except for how they can help you get what you want. Which is the denigration of a different group on their behalf. 

 

we agree.

all your posts say you are scared of women and want them replaced by men

[Scouts Honor]

7 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

That is a fair point. But that is an easy way to shut down anything. 'A bad thing might happen, so we shouldn't do it'. Bad people will find ways to do bad things. 

 

im glad to hear you and i agree on the gun control issue

[Bigbrog]

8 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

im glad to hear you and i agree on the gun control issue

He uses the "a bad thing might happen" argument when he says a biological man should be able to use the same restroom/lockeroom as biological women...if we don't let them something bad will happen to them...somehow it MAY cause violence and endanger the lives of the trans person...works for his point of view but not others??  

[WrestlingRasta]

20 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

That is a fair point. But that is an easy way to shut down anything. 'A bad thing might happen, so we shouldn't do it'. Bad people will find ways to do bad things. If we keep trans people from being able to use the bathroom they feel comfortable with because bad people will do bad things. Then we are just punishing trans people. 

So should we sacrifice giving people equal rights vs bad people doing bad things? 

This shows a fundamental difference in belief in what individual rights and freedoms are.  One of those fundamentals is that your individual right and freedom ends at the point it begins to infringe upon mine.  
 

The dynamic here as it relates to the bathroom is that you are saying it is punishing the trans women for saying no to using the women’s bathroom, without consideration to the vast majority of women who feel an extreme invasion of their rights when a biological male enters their bathroom.  And that is where the individual right of one infringes upon the other. 
 

An individual, biological man has the right to identify as a female.  I will even say an individual has a right to ask to be addressed as a female.  But that is where their right and freedom ends, because forcing me to recognize as a female, or allow to share the bathroom with my biological female children, is an invasion of their right and freedom. It is not fear, it is just as much personal liberty as someone who wants to identify that way.  And just like I have no desire to force you (you being a trans woman in the scenario) to say you must identify as a male…..I am under no obligation to acknowledge you as a male. In THAT scenario, both person’s individual freedom’s are satisfied, and it has nothing to do with fear. 
 

Edited September 6 by WrestlingRasta

[Bigbrog]

1 minute ago, WrestlingRasta said:

This shows a fundamental difference in believe in what individual rights and freedoms are.  One of those fundamentals is that your individual right and freedom ends at the point it begins to infringe upon mine.  
 

The dynamic here as it relates to the bathroom is that you are saying it is punishing the trans women for saying no to using the women’s bathroom, without consideration to the vast majority of women who feel an extreme invasion of their rights when a biological male enters their bathroom.  And that is where the individual right of one infringes upon the other. 
 

An individual, biological woman has the right to identify as a male.  I will even say an individual has a right to ask to be addressed as a female.  But that is where there right and freedom ends, because forcing me to recognize as a female, or allow to share the bathroom with my biological female children, is an invasion of their right and freedom. It is not fear, it is just as much personal liberty as someone who wants to identify that way.  And just like I have no desire to force you (you being a trans woman in the scenario) to say you must identify as a male…..I am under no obligation to acknowledge you as a male. In THAT scenario, both person’s individual freedom’s are satisfied, and it has nothing to do with fear. 
 

[Scouts Honor]

2 hours ago, wrestlingguy said:

Pretty presumptuous don't you think? 

its actually very stereotypical and bigoted.

he wants us to believe he is enlightened, typing like Joey using his THEsaurus, 

but really

he is more bigoted than he claims we are