Time for the all-star meet to move toward an MMA-style “card”

[peanut]

Obviously the wrestling season format with lots of dual meets makes little sense. Lots of time and effort and resources are spent on single matches, and starters often duck or are injured anyway. At a minimum super duals would be more efficient uses of time. But that’s not going to change so what’s left?

The all-star meet. I think there’s a lot of untapped potential there. It could be marketed as an MMA-style “card.” And instead of every weight class being represented, simply the most compelling matchups possible are put together. And since it’s an exhibition, you could even invite post-college competitors too.

The athletes could then hype the matches up and hopefully help themselves in the NIL department. 

Whether you admit it or not, you’d enjoy another Downey-Starocci match. You 1000% know you would, and you’d follow the buildup even if you missed the match.

Edited April 24 by peanut

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

12 minutes ago, peanut said:

Obviously the wrestling season format with lots of dual meets makes little sense. Lots of time and effort and resources are spent on single matches, and starters often duck or are injured anyway. At a minimum super duals would be more efficient uses of time. But that’s not going to change so what’s left?

The all-star meet. I think there’s a lot of untapped potential there. It could be marketed as an MMA-style “card.” And instead of every weight class being represented, simply the most compelling matchups possible are put together. And since it’s an exhibition, you could even invite post-college competitors too.

The athletes could then hype the matches up and hopefully help themselves in the NIL department. 

Whether you admit it or not, you’d enjoy another Downey-Starocci match. You 1000% know you would, and you’d follow the buildup even if you missed the match.

It has been tried.  Repeatedly.  Guys don't want to do it.

I'm all for trying again, but don't have high hopes.

[steamboat_charlie]

I like where your head is at.  The all-star meet definitely needs some work.  Not sure I have the answers, but a couple of thoughts/questions:

1) It gets lost in the calendar.  Most fans are still just getting plugged into their own teams in November.  They've had maybe 1 home dual meet by this point, a couple of tune ups, maybe an open tourney.  Maybe there is a better time to hold it.  Is week of Christmas with a healthy weight allowance crazy? Later in the year during dual season?

2) Tacking onto your point about an MMA-style card--the matchups and weights should be fluid.  Maybe we get some cross-weight matchups (has this ever happened? I can't recall).  Wouldn't champs be more likely to toe the line in an exhibition that truly won't matter later in the year--like a Starocci/Keckeisen match.  Or Mesenbrink 165 vs. O'Toole 174.  

[peanut]

6 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie said:

I like where your head is at.  The all-star meet definitely needs some work.  Not sure I have the answers, but a couple of thoughts/questions:

1) It gets lost in the calendar.  Most fans are still just getting plugged into their own teams in November.  They've had maybe 1 home dual meet by this point, a couple of tune ups, maybe an open tourney.  Maybe there is a better time to hold it.  Is week of Christmas with a healthy weight allowance crazy? Later in the year during dual season?

2) Tacking onto your point about an MMA-style card--the matchups and weights should be fluid.  Maybe we get some cross-weight matchups (has this ever happened? I can't recall).  Wouldn't champs be more likely to toe the line in an exhibition that truly won't matter later in the year--like a Starocci/Keckeisen match.  Or Mesenbrink 165 vs. O'Toole 174.  

Even a post-NCAAs freestyle "card" would be fun. The change in styles would allow all the college athletes involved to save face (in the event they lose shortly after winning an NCAA title). The NWCA doesn't even have to put it on. It could be put on by Flo or even the UFC (given that the UFC recently broadcasted NCAA wrestling).

The bottom line is that the NWCA all-star meets is stale and reflects a world that no longer exists. An MMA-style "card" with matchups people actually want to see would make so much more sense.

Edited April 24 by peanut

[Hammerlock3]

Some cross promotion with MMA would actually help wrestling....unlike putting WFS and greco at the same place as the OTTs. Too bad it'd be hard to do a mixed card given the cage considerations.

[Rassling]

28 minutes ago, peanut said:

Obviously the wrestling season format with lots of dual meets makes little sense. Lots of time and effort and resources are spent on single matches, and starters often duck or are injured anyway. At a minimum super duals would be more efficient uses of time. But that’s not going to change so what’s left?

The all-star meet. I think there’s a lot of untapped potential there. It could be marketed as an MMA-style “card.” And instead of every weight class being represented, simply the most compelling matchups possible are put together. And since it’s an exhibition, you could even invite post-college competitors too.

The athletes could then hype the matches up and hopefully help themselves in the NIL department. 

Whether you admit it or not, you’d enjoy another Downey-Starocci match. You 1000% know you would, and you’d follow the buildup even if you missed the match.

Good thread. At this point I’m open to anything to improve our back seat position to most other collegiate sports.

[Dogbone]

I agree with @steamboat_charlie that it should be more fluid. 

Offer catch weight matches.  

If #1 and #2 are willing, make that match a freestyle match, especially if they are in the same conference.  Might get more guys to say yes. 

Don't force matchups either.  If no one in the top 5 wants to go, just don't have that match.

Allow guys without eligibility to compete, if they are willing. It is an exhibition anyway.   Let's see the incoming #1 v. the defending champ who graduated.  Again, could be freestyle if needed. 

No to Downey but if Starocci wants to wrestle the #1 HWT  (assuming it wasn't his teammate, just using an example), why not. 

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

3 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

I agree with @steamboat_charlie that it should be more fluid. 

Offer catch weight matches.  

If #1 and #2 are willing, make that match a freestyle match, especially if they are in the same conference.  Might get more guys to say yes. 

Don't force matchups either.  If no one in the top 5 wants to go, just don't have that match.

Allow guys without eligibility to compete, if they are willing. It is an exhibition anyway.   Let's see the incoming #1 v. the defending champ who graduated.  Again, could be freestyle if needed. 

No to Downey but if Starocci wants to wrestle the #1 HWT  (assuming it wasn't his teammate, just using an example), why not. 

Throw in some HS matches, a woman’s match or two, a Greco. You can create storylines and buildup.

 

Catchweight, bring back some legends (Bo?, Askren has already done it for the love of wrestling), make it fun and worthwhile. 
 

Wrestling fans tune in for big, promoted events. This should be a yearly thing, minimum. 

[JimmyCinnabon]

37 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

It has been tried.  Repeatedly.  Guys don't want to do it.

I'm all for trying again, but don't have high hopes.

Guys will absolutely do it. If you pay them. For the right price you can get anyone.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

38 minutes ago, JimmyCinnabon said:

Guys will absolutely do it. If you pay them. For the right price you can get anyone.

Flo has tried.  They had some interest but not a lot; had trouble getting guys to commit.    Rudis tried.  Didn't work,

Askren tried.  etc.

I hope it could work.  Hasn't looked good so far.  Most guys seem to want to weigh in and wrestle less, not more.

[steamboat_charlie]

14 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Flo has tried.  They had some interest but not a lot; had trouble getting guys to commit.    Rudis tried.  Didn't work,

Askren tried.  etc.

I hope it could work.  Hasn't looked good so far.  Most guys seem to want to weigh in and wrestle less, not more.

I don't think this can be based on how much you're paying the athletes to show up.  Nobody is really in a place to monetize a one-nighter like this, and at present there's not much to monetize to begin with.

There were 8 NCAA champs competing last year.  It's not like they can't get quality wrestlers.  Given that the stakes are inherently lower, they need to find a way to create more intriguing matchups and build some sort of narrative for the event.  

[nhs67]

They have done a good job of trying to expand.  Keep in mind that they were down what... three years due to cobid?

There are tweaks that could be made here and there, sure, but to insinuate they don't make effort to give us cool shit isn't accurate.

- Dieringer (165lb NCAA D1 Champ) vs David (184lb NCAA D2 Champ)

- Many women's matches as well as high school matches

For this year alone...

- Novak (#1 D3)  VS Hertel (#1 D2) at 157lbs this last year.

- Truax, Olejnik both transferred and created buzz against highly rated and returning beasts.

- Brooks up a weight against the best non-184lber from the year before.

- Kerk/Hendrickson in a fire rematch after Hendrickson had dominated his way to U23s.

- 125-141 were 'less than' stellar, but 141 fell apart, 133 guys were shells by years end (but everyone thought that match was fire) and 125 was... 125, but every match was awesome this year.

[Idaho]

Top tier guys more and more are not willing to "risk injury"

As stated....pay them.... but who pays them to show up? 

They have had some good progress in some areas @nhs67 mentions

The best storylines involve guys outside of the NCAA (Ferrari, PD3, Burroughs, etc.)  which is hard to navigate given my first two points. 

At the end of the day, I want to be the ring announcer. 

[peanut]

5 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Top tier guys more and more are not willing to "risk injury"

As stated....pay them.... but who pays them to show up? 

They have had some good progress in some areas @nhs67 mentions

The best storylines involve guys outside of the NCAA (Ferrari, PD3, Burroughs, etc.)  which is hard to navigate given my first two points. 

At the end of the day, I want to be the ring announcer. 

Could be a subscriber + PPV event on a streaming service and the pay could partially be dependent on PPV numbers. That would give athletes an incentive to promote their matches. 

[Camel Wrestling Fan]

Make it PSU vs USA match in mid December. PSU starter vs then current highest ranked non PSU. Folkstyle. Matches count on the season record. Fire.

[Idaho]

15 minutes ago, Camel Wrestling Fan said:

Make it PSU vs USA match in mid December. PSU starter vs then current highest ranked non PSU. Folkstyle. Matches count on the season record. Fire.

No  - PSU has plenty of attention... Back to the regularly scheduled thread. 

[The_KC_Godfather]

The only thing I want to see from the all star meet is KOT vs. Messybrink!

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Also, I'm not really sure what an "MMA style card" is?  I really don't get it.  A set of matches... kinda like the all-star match already is?

[peanut]

2 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Also, I'm not really sure what an "MMA style card" is?  I really don't get it.  A set of matches... kinda like the all-star match already is?

The all star meet normally finds the top two highest ranked athletes at each weight class who are willing to compete. An mma-style card just puts together the most compelling fights available, regardless of ranking (although rankings certainly play a huge factor in what’s compelling). So you might see two old timers — way past their primes — fight just before a title fight. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

28 minutes ago, peanut said:

The all star meet normally finds the top two highest ranked athletes at each weight class who are willing to compete. An mma-style card just puts together the most compelling fights available, regardless of ranking (although rankings certainly play a huge factor in what’s compelling). So you might see two old timers — way past their primes — fight just before a title fight. 

Yeah! Hill vs Pereira was so compelling!

Edited April 25 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[PortaJohn]

22 hours ago, steamboat_charlie said:

2) Tacking onto your point about an MMA-style card--the matchups and weights should be fluid.  Maybe we get some cross-weight matchups (has this ever happened? I can't recall).  Wouldn't champs be more likely to toe the line in an exhibition that truly won't matter later in the year--like a Starocci/Keckeisen match.  Or Mesenbrink 165 vs. O'Toole 174.  

 

22 hours ago, peanut said:

The bottom line is that the NWCA all-star meets is stale and reflects a world that no longer exists. An MMA-style "card" with matchups people actually want to see would make so much more sense.

Like the idea.  And if the UFC would've ran the All-Star classic last year you could for sure bet they'd match Starocci vs Gabe Arnold.  They know how to drive interest and drama sells