Redshirt Keegan and Rocky next year...?

[Antitroll2828]

17 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

he never red shirted aside from kyle all the other 4xers red shirted so I think it should count exactly the same 

 

23 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

 

 

True. It should count for more. He effectively placed third in a redshirt season and then (hypothetically) rattled off four in a row. I'm being a bit facetious, as all 4xer runs are great for different reasons, but he still needs to win number 3 before we worry about where to rank him amongst the other guys.

 

Count for more? Count the same ? In what world is 4-5 better or equal to 4-4? He didn’t have to wrestle in 2021 but he did and lost jake wentzel of all people and took 3rd ..so if he wins 4 straight bc a loophole gives him a 5th tournament and that makes him better or equal to what Cael or Dake did? I can’t follow the logic here 

[Truzzcat]

4 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

 

Count for more? Count the same ? In what world is 4-5 better or equal to 4-4? He didn’t have to wrestle in 2021 but he did and lost jake wentzel of all people and took 3rd ..so if he wins 4 straight bc a loophole gives him a 5th tournament and that makes him better or equal to what Cael or Dake did? I can’t follow the logic here 

he kind of did have to red shirt everyone was given a free year so it would have been foolish to not compete. He started the year at 157 and was undersized you also act like Jake Wentzel was not a national finalist this year. The benefit of taking a red shirt is immense he will still (if he wins) have 4 national titles in 5 years like most all the other 4x champs besides Dake and Yianni who did it in 6.

[steamboat_charlie]

50 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Eh, this isn't exactly telling the truth of the matter.

2021 was a free year, so using a redshirt or not didn't or wasn't going to matter.  He chose to use the free year for his team.

I'm not talking about the free year I'm talking about 2022.  He was given the option and decided not to redshirt.  

[KCMO2]

1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

Rath looks just like O'Toole.  O'Toole was expected to be 157 but could not beat out Jacques.

O'Toole could beat Jacques, but took one for the team to keep the 2x NQ in the line-up, and bumped to 165 (where he took 3rd, compared to Jacques DNP).  I never once heard of Jacques beating O'Toole.

[nhs67]

3 minutes ago, KCMO2 said:

O'Toole could beat Jacques, but took one for the team to keep the 2x NQ in the line-up, and bumped to 165 (where he took 3rd, compared to Jacques DNP).  I never once heard of Jacques beating O'Toole.

That isn't what the rumblings were at the time.  I didn't think that were the case, either, but Askren had eluded to it several times on FRL over the years.

16 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie said:

I'm not talking about the free year I'm talking about 2022.  He was given the option and decided not to redshirt.  

Which would mean he would still have two years left after this, had he done it then, too...

[Crotalus]

Count for more? Count the same ? In what world is 4-5 better or equal to 4-4? He didn’t have to wrestle in 2021 but he did and lost jake wentzel of all people and took 3rd ..so if he wins 4 straight bc a loophole gives him a 5th tournament and that makes him better or equal to what Cael or Dake did? I can’t follow the logic here 

Let's do a hypothetical comparison. What about Steiber? He competed attached in 5 seasons. He took multiple losses during his first freshman season and most likely wouldn't have won the national title. An injury allowed him to wipe that season out and start over, and then he won 4 straight. Is that more impressive to you than what O'Toole has the potential to do? (Mind we are counting our chickens, here.)

The argument is that only Dake is actually 4 out of 4 as all others took a redshirt of some sort. The difference being that O'Toole was effectively allowed to compete as an attached athlete during the season he would have otherwise redshirted.

If he was a year older and took a redshirt in 2020 and then had 5 NCAA tournaments to win 4 titles, it would be a different story.

[nhs67]

8 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

Let's do a hypothetical comparison. What about Steiber? He competed attached in 5 seasons. He took multiple losses during his first freshman season and most likely wouldn't have won the national title. An injury allowed him to wipe that season out and start over, and then he won 4 straight. Is that more impressive to you than what O'Toole has the potential to do? (Mind we are counting our chickens, here.)

The argument is that only Dake is actually 4 out of 4 as all others took a redshirt of some sort. The difference being that O'Toole was effectively allowed to compete as an attached athlete during the season he would have otherwise redshirted.

If he was a year older and took a redshirt in 2020 and then had 5 NCAA tournaments to win 4 titles, it would be a different story.

You mean like Sta(l)rocci?

Edit: Is Aaron Brooks a better example?  Sta(l)rocci seems to be satisfied with not wrestling that fifth/extra year.

Edited February 7 by nhs67

[Crotalus]

You mean like Sta(l)rocci?
Edit: Is Aaron Brooks a better example?  Sta(l)rocci seems to be satisfied with not wrestling that fifth/extra year.

Except they would have the opportunity to win 5 if they wanted to.

Bottom line is winning 4 NCAA titles is beyond impressive, but folks are always looking for opportunities to knock the guys they don't root for. As a Mizzou fan, I'm just enjoying the O'Toole era, regardless of how it ends up.

[bnwtwg]

1 hour ago, Crotalus said:

Let's do a hypothetical comparison. What about Steiber? He competed attached in 5 seasons. He took multiple losses during his first freshman season and most likely wouldn't have won the national title. An injury allowed him to wipe that season out and start over, and then he won 4 straight. Is that more impressive to you than what O'Toole has the potential to do? (Mind we are counting our chickens, here.)

The argument is that only Dake is actually 4 out of 4 as all others took a redshirt of some sort. The difference being that O'Toole was effectively allowed to compete as an attached athlete during the season he would have otherwise redshirted.

If he was a year older and took a redshirt in 2020 and then had 5 NCAA tournaments to win 4 titles, it would be a different story.

 

The Streibler elf has more asterisks on his record than a Barry Bonds season.

[Antitroll2828]

3 hours ago, Crotalus said:

Let's do a hypothetical comparison. What about Steiber? He competed attached in 5 seasons. He took multiple losses during his first freshman season and most likely wouldn't have won the national title. An injury allowed him to wipe that season out and start over, and then he won 4 straight. Is that more impressive to you than what O'Toole has the potential to do? (Mind we are counting our chickens, here.)

The argument is that only Dake is actually 4 out of 4 as all others took a redshirt of some sort. The difference being that O'Toole was effectively allowed to compete as an attached athlete during the season he would have otherwise redshirted.

If he was a year older and took a redshirt in 2020 and then had 5 NCAA tournaments to win 4 titles, it would be a different story.

 

The point is he’s still getting 5 tournaments to win 4 titles ..No one else has that opportunity, all the 4xers went 4-4 , he gets an extra crack and it doesn’t matter because he didn’t redshirt? 

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, Antitroll2828 said:

The point is he’s still getting 5 tournaments to win 4 titles ..No one else has that opportunity, all the 4xers went 4-4 , he gets an extra crack and it doesn’t matter because he didn’t redshirt? 

How many did you win?

Did you ever even make it to NCAAs as a competitor in D1 college wrestling, let alone win a single title there?

If not, then you have no clue what it takes.  Sit down.

[Antitroll2828]

52 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

How many did you win?

Did you ever even make it to NCAAs as a competitor in D1 college wrestling, let alone win a single title there?

If not, then you have no clue what it takes.  Sit down.

That’s your take? If you aren’t the .0001 percent of the population that won an ncaa title you can’t have an opinion. Wow this board would be awfully quiet if that’s the case ..All this anger coming from your post bc I said if Otoole wins 4 while wrestling in 5 ncaa tournaments it should have an asterisk bc every other 4xer did it in 4 attempts , idk seems like a reasonable take to have,but apparently I just don’t have a clue …tell us @nhs67 what are your wrestling credentials ? How many titles did you win? Bc if it’s 0 by your own logic you shouldn’t even be commenting 

[nhs67]

9 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

That’s your take? If you aren’t the .0001 percent of the population that won an ncaa title you can’t have an opinion. Wow this board would be awfully quiet if that’s the case ..All this anger coming from your post bc I said if Otoole wins 4 while wrestling in 5 ncaa tournaments it should have an asterisk bc every other 4xer did it in 4 attempts , idk seems like a reasonable take to have,but apparently I just don’t have a clue …tell us @nhs67 what are your wrestling credentials ? How many titles did you win? Bc if it’s 0 by your own logic you shouldn’t even be commenting 

By my aforementioned logic if you haven't wrestled at NCAAs then you don't get to criticize him for (potentially) winning four.

Even though I have, I still reserve the right to not criticize him.

Sit down, kid.

[Crotalus]

The point is he’s still getting 5 tournaments to win 4 titles ..No one else has that opportunity, all the 4xers went 4-4 , he gets an extra crack and it doesn’t matter because he didn’t redshirt? 

It's a unique opportunity he has, for sure (as well as Brooks and Star, should they take it). And should he complete the feat, it will be part of the discussion for decades when discussing the greatest college resumes. I just strongly disagree that it would count for less than all the other 4 timers as you proclaim. All the other guys other than Dake took a redshirt at some point to accomplish the feat. It would be easy to argue that third as a true freshman is more impressive than redshirting (i.e. 3,1,1,1,1 > RS,1,1,1,1).

[nhs67]

5 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

2 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

The point is he’s still getting 5 tournaments to win 4 titles ..No one else has that opportunity, all the 4xers went 4-4 , he gets an extra crack and it doesn’t matter because he didn’t redshirt? 

It's a unique opportunity he has, for sure (as well as Brooks and Star, should they take it). And should he complete the feat, it will be part of the discussion for decades when discussing the greatest college resumes. I just strongly disagree that it would count for less than all the other 4 timers as you proclaim. All the other guys other than Dake took a redshirt at some point to accomplish the feat. It would be easy to argue that third as a true freshman is more impressive than redshirting (i.e. 3,1,1,1,1 > RS,1,1,1,1).

Precisely why if Sta(l)rocci won five, he would be the actual GOAT.

1,1,1,1,1?  C'mon man... epic feat.

[Crotalus]

Precisely why if Sta(l)rocci won five, he would be the actual GOAT.
1,1,1,1,1?  C'mon man... epic feat.

Technically, he would be RS,1,1,1,1,1.......

[Gibby Haynes]

Rath wrestled at 160 a couple weeks ago and at 170 a couple days ago.