The official beginning of the death of the NCAA has begun

[bnwtwg]

 

[Mr. PeanutButter]

Can this be good or bad? 

[peanut]

6 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Can this be good or bad? 

I’ve suspected for a while that the SEC and Big Ten might withdraw from the NCAA and form their own organization for the purposes of football. They’d essentially have a mini NFL. Not sure what such a potential move might mean for other sports. 

[bnwtwg]

22 minutes ago, peanut said:

I’ve suspected for a while that the SEC and Big Ten might withdraw from the NCAA and form their own organization for the purposes of football. They’d essentially have a mini NFL. Not sure what such a potential move might mean for other sports. 

I highly doubt it would be limited to "just" football as I bet that MBB would also be part of the B1G/SEC package. But we shall see and this will take years to fully shake out.

[NM1965]

It would be great if the SEC brought back wrestling. Some of the old SEC schools had reasonably good programs (LSU, Auburn, Kentucky). Of course that'll never happen

[KCMO2]

47 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

It would be great if the SEC brought back wrestling. Some of the old SEC schools had reasonably good programs (LSU, Auburn, Kentucky). Of course that'll never happen

Probably not, but now that Oklahoma is joining, the SEC has 2 legit perennial powers.  And with women's wrestling becoming more popular, schools could add men's and women's wrestling without violating Title IX.

Of course if the NCAA would just pull their heads out of their asses and quit counting the 85 full ride D1 football scholarships towards Title IX compliance, then everything would be fine for all of the other sports.

Edited February 2 by KCMO2

[bnwtwg]

1 hour ago, KCMO2 said:

Probably not, but now that Oklahoma is joining, the SEC has 2 legit perennial powers.  And with women's wrestling becoming more popular, schools could add men's and women's wrestling without violating Title IX.

Of course if the NCAA would just pull their heads out of their asses and quit counting the 85 full ride D1 football scholarships towards Title IX compliance, then everything would be fine for all of the other sports.

Oklahoma is more likely to cut wrestling than the other SEC schools to add it.

I don't like saying that out loud nor am I saying it is going to happen, but it is a true statement when taken at surface level.

[Idaho]

3 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

 

The idea of the CFP creating their own league has been out there for a while.... but it is going to be very messy trying to navigate a sports league while schools are still under the NCAA. 

[wrestle87]

4 hours ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Can this be good or bad? 

This, in my opinion, would be stellar.  

The NCAA is the college sports version of the old hollywood movie production houses.

Great thing, great for sports, great for competition, great for the kids.

[billyhoyle]

This is obviously terrible for wrestling.  Any university that doesn't join the Big10 or SEC will end up with a huge drop in revenue, which will result in the necessary cut of sports.  Even rules that have protected the sport like a required minimum number of sponsored sports will likely change as a result of the new financial landscape.  

[wrestle87]

9 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

This is obviously terrible for wrestling.  Any university that doesn't join the Big10 or SEC will end up with a huge drop in revenue, which will result in the necessary cut of sports.  Even rules that have protected the sport like a required minimum number of sponsored sports will likely change as a result of the new financial landscape.  

The following are not rhetorical snarky questions, I mean to ask them earnestly.

Do schools with wrestling programs that are not in these two conferences really benefit financially from their athletics programs?

I do see what you're talking about, but for example, SDSU or little rock, are their athletic departments meaningful contributors to their financial budget every year?

[billyhoyle]

9 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

The following are not rhetorical snarky questions, I mean to ask them earnestly.

Do schools with wrestling programs that are not in these two conferences really benefit financially from their athletics programs?

I do see what you're talking about, but for example, SDSU or little rock, are their athletic departments meaningful contributors to their financial budget every year?

Every power 5 school not in the big ten or sec will end up cutting sports. I expect more schools to join those conferences though if this split happens.  And places like Cornell and Harvard will be ok. 
 

It would be a huge shift in the wrestling landscape though, and a terrible one if you don’t want to see programs dropped. 

[bnwtwg]

I have said it before and I will say it again:

Death to the NCAA. But that means death to olympic sports as we know them. All will become so small and niche such as men's gymnastics that collegiate sports will eventually just... go away. And it will be a linger, brutal death.

And don't think for one moment that this won't trickle down to high school and younger as school administrations have to look under the couch for every penny they can get. All it takes is one superintendent emboldened by the NCAA's eventual decision to make the same move and you will see rapid emulation.

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

I could see a scenario where college wrestling breaks off from the NCAA, due to the NCAA no longer existing, or other,  where college wrestling is regulated and sought over by a wrestling specific governing body.

 

Like UWW for international wrestling, or NWCA for club wrestling. Wrestling isn’t going anywhere but the sports that can quickly pivot to a new format with the possible death of the NCAA will have less negative impacts.

[billyhoyle]

7 minutes ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

I could see a scenario where college wrestling breaks off from the NCAA, due to the NCAA no longer existing, or other,  where college wrestling is regulated and sought over by a wrestling specific governing body.

 

Like UWW for international wrestling, or NWCA for club wrestling. Wrestling isn’t going anywhere but the sports that can quickly pivot to a new format with the possible death of the NCAA will have less negative impacts.

That makes zero sense because you need money for insurance, travel, scholarships, putting on events, paying coaches, etc. Every wrestling program loses money. This type of thinking is fantasy land cognitive dissonance.

NCAA wrestling must be saved or there is no more college wrestling as we know and appreciate it. 

[CHROMEBIRD]

There's too much money in football, and less so basketball. What if the NCAA were to drop football and become the college athletics association for just the Olympic/non-revenue sports? Not that it would happen or do much to save the small sports. 

[billyhoyle]

1 minute ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

There's too much money in football, and less so basketball. What if the NCAA were to drop football and become the college athletics association for just the Olympic/non-revenue sports? Not that it would happen or do much to save the small sports. 

What happens to businesses that lose money (with the exception of Tesla)? 

Edited February 3 by billyhoyle

[CHROMEBIRD]

What happens to business that make too much money?

[bnwtwg]

33 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

What happens to business that make too much money?

They lay off entire departments if they don't hit overinflated quarterly goals

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

1 hour ago, billyhoyle said:

That makes zero sense because you need money for insurance, travel, scholarships, putting on events, paying coaches, etc. Every wrestling program loses money. This type of thinking is fantasy land cognitive dissonance.

NCAA wrestling must be saved or there is no more college wrestling as we know and appreciate it. 

There are plenty of alternate scenarios that may have to become reality if colleges stop sponsoring  non-revenue sports. 
 

There are currently as many NWCA D1 club teams as there are NCAA D1 teams. Obviously there would be a landscape shift but wrestling isn’t such a niche sport that it will simply seize to exist in a post HS capacity. 
 

We are the only country with athletics tied to universities. If the NCAA disbands or becomes insolvent there are many alternative. Also have you ever considered that many programs thrive not due to NCAA/university support but due to donor support?

 

In my opinion the NCAA is too big to fail, but as football becomes increasingly an ROI seeking endeavor other sports will have changes to pursue.
 

we currently have more NCAA sponsored programs than ever before, we haven’t he RTC model, we have the club model, we have NAIA. Things may change but it doesn’t have to be the NCAA or bust . 

[NM1965]

On 2/2/2024 at 8:07 PM, KCMO2 said:

Probably not, but now that Oklahoma is joining, the SEC has 2 legit perennial powers.  And with women's wrestling becoming more popular, schools could add men's and women's wrestling without violating Title IX.

Of course if the NCAA would just pull their heads out of their asses and quit counting the 85 full ride D1 football scholarships towards Title IX compliance, then everything would be fine for all of the other sports.

Unfortunately I don't think you can call OU as "legit perennial power" anymore. OU hasn't had a consistently elite program since the mid-80s, and hasn't even had a good team since Jack Spates was coach a long, long time ago. Hopefully Kish will prove to be a good coach, but OU will probably be lucky to finish top 25 at NCAAs.

I don't think the NCAA in it's current form will exist much longer (due to NILs, mostly), to be honest. Within 5 years it'll be dust or radically different.

[Idaho]

All NCAA sports need their schools.... NIL comes from connections to the schools.... big time donors, business owners, etc. WIthout a connection to the school and sponsored by the school,  sports become a separate league or  minor league system such as the XFL. I don't think school donors are interested in supporting a minor league team versus their alma mater.  Splitting off from the NCAA could be good for schools as well, but it could also have dangerous consequences. If football wants to split off and do their own thing let them do it. Let's see if that money stays there. 

[bnwtwg]

It will be good right up until it isn't. First the NCAA revenue sports will transform into amateur sports. Then the MBA-ification will occur. Then interest will wane rapidly as results are dictated by a bottom line rather than championships. Oh and don't forget that higher education attendance both in person and general enrollment is about to radically transform over the next decade which will have a much larger impact on NCAA sports/what it becomes than I think anyone is acknowledging. Here is some additional food for thought:

You don't need a degree to code, you just need a place to begin building your network. You don't need a degree for manual labor, you need to attend a trade school. You don't need to be weighed down with a lifetime of high interest student loans at the beginning of your adult *life that have the ability to cripple you for a lifetime, you just need to gain relevant skills in the upcoming automated world. I work in high level technology for a company that dictates, literally, how the world runs and some of my best and brightest are folks with only a high school or associate's degree. Teachers and medical education are two of the few fields that will be fully excluded but even they are already being heavily transformed.

I don't bring these topics up as debate fodder that could derail the conversation, I'm only sharing them as additional bullet points to support what @Idaho is saying.

Edited February 23 by bnwtwg
autocorrect

[Idaho]

16 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

It will be good right up until it isn't. First the NCAA revenue sports will transform into amateur sports. Then the MBA-ification will occur. Then interest will wane rapidly as results are dictated by a bottom line rather than championships. Oh and don't forget that higher education attendance both in person and general enrollment is about to radically transform over the next decade which will have a much larger impact on NCAA sports/what it becomes than I think anyone is acknowledging. Here is some additional food for thought:

 

Yep... as soon as the system is disconnected from the school, it will become like that minor league baseball team that you have in your town that has Balloon Clown night to try to get families to attend. There is a huge difference between a community of people who support a school  VS. community support for an amateur minor league team.  The financial bottom line will be very ugly. But perhaps that's what needs to happen????  There is a lot to that conversation, but I will leave it there for now.

 

Agree 100% ... attendance is down and what used to be the students competing for spots in a program is now colleges competing for the students.  We have friends who have their kids in the local JC doing apprenticeships in their various trade schools. Cheap tuition, 1 class a week for 3 hours, the rest is on the  job training full-time while being paid. Good route to go. Lot's of companies are also now doing their own training and apprenticeships. My son in law got accepted into an apprenticeship program with a local air company. He learned to work on Jets, got his certificates and got paid a decent full time wage while doing it.  He will be making 6 figures in a couple years. Not bad for a mid-twenties kid to be trained for free, no school loans and making a good wage. 

[Eagle26]

Maybe if this comes to fruition, USA wrestling should step in and sponsor some RTC team duals and a championship tournament? As others have pointed out, there as so many good post high school options for your career path, why should someone who wants to continue their athletic career be forced to go to a traditional “4 year” college? College teams are already working closely with RTCs. Why not have them work together and a kid could be enrolled or not enrolled in the college for their team competitions?