Le duke Posted October 13 Posted October 13 18 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: If you guys tried to do a good faith summary of the other's opinion on the subject, I doubt you would still think there was a disagreement. Why should we attempt to make a good faith summary of his opinion, when he can't even present easily verifiable facts without stating falsehoods?
BruceyB Posted October 13 Posted October 13 22 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: If you guys tried to do a good faith summary of the other's opinion on the subject, I doubt you would still think there was a disagreement. Did you read his last post? Show me where the good faith is, and I'll give it a try.
Hammerlock3 Posted October 13 Author Posted October 13 4 minutes ago, Le duke said: Why should we attempt to make a good faith summary of his opinion, when he can't even present easily verifiable facts without stating falsehoods? Well if Caveira is just lying then yes the steelman excercise won't help, particularly if Brucey is gonna insist on reading the most sinister possible intent into everyone else's posts. My hope was that Brucey would admit its alright that hierarchies exist caveira would obviously say Starocci is obviously a great wrestler....not derailing the topic. 1 "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."
Hammerlock3 Posted October 13 Author Posted October 13 1 minute ago, BruceyB said: Did you read his last post? Show me where the good faith is, and I'll give it a try. i think i addressed it to Leduke just now. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."
Hammerlock3 Posted October 13 Author Posted October 13 For those wondering, Starocci scored bonus in 28% of his NCAA matches. However that includes 0/5 in 2024 which I'd give him some slack for, but it doesn't take much slack if you're claim is he did in less than 25%..... "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."
BruceyB Posted October 13 Posted October 13 8 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: For those wondering, Starocci scored bonus in 28% of his NCAA matches. However that includes 0/5 in 2024 which I'd give him some slack for, but it doesn't take much slack if you're claim is he did in less than 25%..... TBF, Cav said he bonused less than 25% of his NCAA opponents. I thought he was talking about qualified matches against D1 opponents. I didn't realize he was talking about strictly at the tournament, my bad. That being said.. Yianni had bonus in 15% of his NCAA matches. He had 0 bonus in both 2019 and 2022.. so.. 1
Hammerlock3 Posted October 13 Author Posted October 13 2 minutes ago, BruceyB said: TBF, Cav said he bonused less than 25% of his NCAA opponents. I thought he was talking about qualified matches against D1 opponents. I didn't realize he was talking about strictly at the tournament, my bad. That being said.. Yianni had bonus in 15% of his NCAA matches. He had 0 bonus in both 2019 and 2022.. so.. are you begging me to call you a bitter jealous horrible person now? "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."
Caveira Posted October 13 Posted October 13 1 hour ago, BruceyB said: Well, ladies and gentlemen.. there you have it. Caveria, you tell me. How many 4-5 timers bonused less than 25% of their opponents? How many? Pretty sure he went 4 bonus out of 20 in his first 4 years 1 hour ago, BruceyB said: Well, ladies and gentlemen.. there you have it. Caveria, you tell me. How many 4-5 timers bonused less than 25% of their opponents? How many?
BruceyB Posted October 13 Posted October 13 2 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: are you begging me to call you a bitter jealous horrible person now? What is bitter, what is jealous, and what is horrible about what I've said? Go ahead, brother.
Hammerlock3 Posted October 13 Author Posted October 13 On 10/12/2026 at 2:33 PM, BruceyB said: The term "worst 4 timer" is just oxymoronic and leaves the people involved seemingly desperate to diminish an accomplishment that only a handful of people have achieved. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."
BruceyB Posted October 13 Posted October 13 Just now, Hammerlock3 said: That makes me a bitter, jealous, horrible person? Condescending, maybe. The rest? I don't understand.
Caveira Posted October 13 Posted October 13 13 minutes ago, BruceyB said: TBF, Cav said he bonused less than 25% of his NCAA opponents. I thought he was talking about qualified matches against D1 opponents. I didn't realize he was talking about strictly at the tournament, my bad. That being said.. Yianni had bonus in 15% of his NCAA matches. He had 0 bonus in both 2019 and 2022.. so.. Yep. And he and cstall are the lowest two bonuses in 4x er history. Gotta rank em somehow title of the thread is worst great wrestler after all
BruceyB Posted October 13 Posted October 13 Just now, Caveira said: Yep. And he and cstall are the lowest two bonuses in 4x er history. Gotta rank em somehow title of the thread is worst great wrestler after all I probably wouldn't include a 4xer, let alone one that went undefeated for 4 years in contested matches as one of the worst great wrestlers, but that's just me. Boring, sure. Worst, not so much. 1
Caveira Posted October 13 Posted October 13 2 minutes ago, BruceyB said: I probably wouldn't include a 4xer, let alone one that went undefeated for 4 years in contested matches as one of the worst great wrestlers, but that's just me. Boring, sure. Worst, not so much. Maybe it’s just the title of the thread that threw you off?
Caveira Posted October 13 Posted October 13 (edited) 10 minutes ago, BruceyB said: I probably wouldn't include a 4xer, let alone one that went undefeated for 4 years in contested matches as one of the worst great wrestlers, but that's just me. Boring, sure. Worst, not so much. Cstall - He had two losses in 2024. Was the #9 seed Edited October 13 by Caveira
BruceyB Posted October 13 Posted October 13 4 minutes ago, Caveira said: Cstall - He had two losses in 2024. Was the #9 seed See "contested." If you count those as losses, well, that's about enough said. He is the worst.
Caveira Posted October 13 Posted October 13 (edited) 8 minutes ago, BruceyB said: See "contested." If you count those as losses, well, that's about enough said. He is the worst. You don’t get to not wrestle big 10s and not count those losses. They are official losses. His losses are documented right in the ncaa bracket next to his #9 seed convenient you forgot his loss to Donnell Washington and kemmerer one year as well. Edited October 13 by Caveira
Le duke Posted October 13 Posted October 13 13 minutes ago, Caveira said: You don’t get to not wrestle big 10s and not count those losses. They are official losses. His losses are documented right in the ncaa bracket next to his #9 seed convenient you forgot his loss to Donnell Washington and kemmerer one year as well. His words were "unfefeated for 4 years in contested matches". In his last four seasons, he did not lose to Kemerer or Washington. 1
BruceyB Posted October 13 Posted October 13 11 minutes ago, Caveira said: You don’t get to not wrestle big 10s and not count those losses. They are official losses. His losses are documented right in the ncaa bracket next to his #9 seed convenient you forgot his loss to Donnell Washington and kemmerer one year as well. I said he was undefeated in contested matches for 4 years. I was talking about his final five years of competition. @Hammerlock3 This is exactly what I'm talking about. Does this sound like someone operating from good faith? This is comical. 1
Caveira Posted October 13 Posted October 13 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Le duke said: His words were "unfefeated for 4 years in contested matches". In his last four seasons, he did not lose to Kemerer or Washington. His words were splitting hairs to make his record look better and cherry picking better years than others …. To again - make his record look better. I ignored said cherry picking and put his factual record here Edited October 13 by Caveira
alex1fly Posted October 13 Posted October 13 (edited) 36 minutes ago, BruceyB said: I said he was undefeated in contested matches for 4 years. I was talking about his final five years of competition. @Hammerlock3 This is exactly what I'm talking about. Does this sound like someone operating from good faith? This is comical. No comment on your back and forth with Cav other than "who cares" but I'll say that given all the accusations around his off mat behavior, Starocci could definitely be the worst person who was also a great wrestler lol. This is just me having fun with wordplay though while I watch Greco, the world's best and finest sport Edited October 13 by alex1fly 2
Hammerlock3 Posted October 13 Author Posted October 13 44 minutes ago, BruceyB said: I said he was undefeated in contested matches for 4 years. I was talking about his final five years of competition. @Hammerlock3 This is exactly what I'm talking about. Does this sound like someone operating from good faith? This is comical. I'm not saying he is, but neither are you. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."
Hammerlock3 Posted October 13 Author Posted October 13 11 minutes ago, alex1fly said: No comment on your back and forth with Cav other than "who cares" but I'll say that given all the accusations around his off mat behavior, Starocci could definitely be the worst person who was also a great wrestler lol. This is just me having fun with wordplay though while I watch Greco, the world's best and finest sport remember ferrari makes the cut for "great"....though stealing is pretty friggin low....guess we'd have to decide who SA allegations are more credible... "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."
BruceyB Posted October 13 Posted October 13 46 minutes ago, Caveira said: His words were splitting hairs to make his record look better and cherry picking better years than others …. To again - make his record look better. I ignored said cherry picking and put his factual record here I'm done. I only have myself to blame. I said what the conversation would be with you, and yet you still reeled me in.
Caveira Posted October 13 Posted October 13 35 minutes ago, BruceyB said: I'm done. I only have myself to blame. I said what the conversation would be with you, and yet you still reeled me in. Prolly you don’t have to tee the ball up if you don’t want someone to hit it. happy to help make sure the stats are factual too.
Nevaeh Lavarias Pearl City High School, Hawaii Class of 2027 Committed to Kent State Projected Weight: 124
Braeden Simoneaux New York Military Academy, Louisiana Class of 2027 Committed to Wyoming Projected Weight: 184, 197
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