Election Integrity

[Simpleman424]

28 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Thank you for contributing.  Up until now, you have yet to indicate whether Sunday was a “must stay on topic” day for you, or a “deflecting to new topic is okay” day for you.  We now see you have Sunday marked as a deflection day, apparently Saturday as well.  
 

Appreciate you clearing that up for us.   Have you read the files on whitehouse.gov yet?  Or do you not want to take the time on such things? 

It’s not necessarily deflection…just stating this isn’t one sided like people want to make it out to be. There was 100% election interference, voter fraud etc. Mostly done by Democratic Party members…that’s a problem yes but the real problem is Democrats just don’t share their real feelings on it. They don’t actually care it happened…it benefited them, it will continue to benefit them if nothing is done and that’s why they don’t want to pass things like Voter ID laws. Just admit you don’t care how you win as long as you do and then we can all move on from Trump this and Trump that…the deflection is throwing everything at Trump and his administration vise acknowledging the quiet part out loud.

[1032004]

Good summary I read elsewhere.

 

2016 - Obama President, libs cheated but not good enough and Trump won

2020 - Trump President, but this time the libs cheated better and Biden won

2024 - Biden President, libs cheated but not good enough and Trump won

 

lol.  Logic isn’t MAGA’s strong suit 

[Caveira]

35 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Good summary I read elsewhere.

 

2016 - Obama President, libs cheated but not good enough and Trump won

2020 - Trump President, but this time the libs cheated better and Biden won

2024 - Biden President, libs cheated but not good enough and Trump won

 

lol.  Logic isn’t MAGA’s strong suit 

A few minutes of Hillary claiming the election was stolen and Trump was an illegitimate president 

 

[1032004]

1 minute ago, Caveira said:

A few minutes of Hillary claiming the election was stolen and Trump was an illegitimate president 

 

She did eventually explicitly admit she lost.  Trump still hasn’t admitted he lost 2020

[Simpleman424]

38 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Good summary I read elsewhere.

 

2016 - Obama President, libs cheated but not good enough and Trump won

2020 - Trump President, but this time the libs cheated better and Biden won

2024 - Biden President, libs cheated but not good enough and Trump won

 

lol.  Logic isn’t MAGA’s strong suit 

Liberals and Democrats aren’t the same thing…that’s a horrible “summary” and silly oversimplification of a much deeper issue. Also, insulting to true liberals…

[Caveira]

2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

She did eventually explicitly admit she lost.  Trump still hasn’t admitted he lost 2020

Hillary Clinton has never admitted she was wrong about her claims that the 2016 election was stolen or that Donald Trump was an "illegitimate president". She has never walked back or apologized for those specific characterizations. 

[1032004]

1 minute ago, Caveira said:

Hillary Clinton has never admitted she was wrong about her claims that the 2016 election was stolen or that Donald Trump was an "illegitimate president". She has never walked back or apologized for those specific characterizations. 

Still one step better than Trump 

[Caveira]

4 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Still one step better than Trump 

Yawn 

you claim you voted for Trump 3 times lol.    In 2016 included lol  Even while he was saying the election was rigged.    Even after j6.    Even after his politically motivated convictions.  Of course unless you lied about that 

Edited July 19 by Caveira

[Simpleman424]

11 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Still one step better than Trump 

Like Trump or not in no world is she one step ahead of him…to say that is ignoring so many things. He might be flawed/evil but that lady is on a whole other level…

[1032004]

Just now, Simpleman424 said:

Like Trump or not in no world is she one step ahead of him…to say that is ignoring so many things. He might be flawed/evil but that lady is on a whole other level…

I just mean in regards to stolen election claims 

[Simpleman424]

2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I just mean in regards to stolen election claims 

Fair enough, but I’ve never heard her come off her stance either

Edited July 19 by Simpleman424

[Offthemat]

What’s with the FBI agent saying she was operating a shadow government?  Was intelligence actually being withheld from the senior officials and the President, or was she exaggerating her role?

[Offthemat]

A little different take than @WrestlingRasta’s:

https://technofog.substack.com/p/declassified-michigan-voter-fraud

“Credit to the White House and the respective agencies for getting these documents out for public review.“

[Simpleman424]

13 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

What’s with the FBI agent saying she was operating a shadow government?  Was intelligence actually being withheld from the senior officials and the President, or was she exaggerating her role?

While she was the First Lady or Secretary of State? There’s been talk of her involvement in political matters as the First Lady…as if she pulled a lot of strings with her husband. None of that can be proven of course but time (and bodies) has told the tale of the person she is…withholding information is highly likely.

[Offthemat]

6 minutes ago, Simpleman424 said:

While she was the First Lady or Secretary of State? There’s been talk of her involvement in political matters as the First Lady…as if she pulled a lot of strings with her husband. None of that can be proven of course but time (and bodies) has told the tale of the person she is…withholding information is highly likely.

Not hiliary, the FBI agent.  It was part of the documents released.  An FBI agent claimed she was running a shadow government by withholding intelligence from her superiors and therefore, the president. 

[Caveira]

12 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Not hiliary, the FBI agent.  It was part of the documents released.  An FBI agent claimed she was running a shadow government by withholding intelligence from her superiors and therefore, the president. 

That was probably fixed at the no kings ralleys this year / last year 

[Simpleman424]

11 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Not hiliary, the FBI agent.  It was part of the documents released.  An FBI agent claimed she was running a shadow government by withholding intelligence from her superiors and therefore, the president. 

Ohhh…yea there is no way an FBI agent is operating in that capacity. She might have thought she was doing something but at best she was obstructing justice…lol

[Offthemat]

40 minutes ago, Simpleman424 said:

Ohhh…yea there is no way an FBI agent is operating in that capacity. She might have thought she was doing something but at best she was obstructing justice…lol

I would say it’s more insurrectiony, aiding and abetting.  Definitely prosecutable. 

[Simpleman424]

49 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

I would say it’s more insurrectiony, aiding and abetting.  Definitely prosecutable. 

Yea I didn’t want to blend much into that world because that might be giving her too much credit…by all means though let her show the receipts

[1032004]

2 hours ago, Offthemat said:

What’s with the FBI agent saying she was operating a shadow government?  Was intelligence actually being withheld from the senior officials and the President, or was she exaggerating her role?

 I see you got a hold of the talking points you were told to care about 

[WrestlingRasta]

21 hours ago, Simpleman424 said:

It’s not necessarily deflection…just stating this isn’t one sided like people want to make it out to be. There was 100% election interference, voter fraud etc. Mostly done by Democratic Party members…that’s a problem yes but the real problem is Democrats just don’t share their real feelings on it. They don’t actually care it happened…it benefited them, it will continue to benefit them if nothing is done and that’s why they don’t want to pass things like Voter ID laws. Just admit you don’t care how you win as long as you do and then we can all move on from Trump this and Trump that…the deflection is throwing everything at Trump and his administration vise acknowledging the quiet part out loud.

A lot in here that is fair, and agree with most.  Couple things I would argue (for lack of better term)….

I absolutely agree that people on both sides participate in nefarious activities when it comes to elections. No doubt about it.  The ‘deflection’ part comes on a couple different levels.  One being this topic is  on the election integrity speech the other night, citing the document dump announced during that speech. It wasn’t about Hilary questioning the execution of the election ten years ago. And being that Cav has a history of….one day we must stay on topic but another day it’s okay to deflect to other topics, all based on comfort level with the topic…I just brought up his latest example of flip flopping.  Second, and even more to the point….she absolutely has questioned the execution of 2016 years ago and still recently.   However, she conceded on election night; she didn’t assemble a fake slate of electors to go in and cast unauthorized votes, she didn’t call secretary of states with threats and demands to create more votes, she didn’t flood the courts with lawsuits and when lost every one of them, she didn’t assemble a crowd of thousands, get them all riled up and send them to the Capitol, saying quote “you must fight or you won’t have a country anymore” (among lots of other things) and tell the crowd she was going with them, only to go sit in front of the TV and watch cops get the shit kicked out of them in her name; she didn’t tell an angry crowd going at the Capitol that the VP was a coward because he wouldn’t violate the constitution…and on and on.  I am not and never have been any fan of Hillary Clinton, I think she’s dirty as f**k, but to interject her into this conversation as if her response to her election loss is the same as the President’s is not only deflection, it’s outright dishonest. There is a reason dozens of officials who worked in the first Trump administration and were very much behind his policies and very much wanted him to win the 2020 election, refused to support him in ‘24.  There is a reason many who were very close to the inner workings of that campaign and the election results told him he lost.  
 

you stated “just admit you…….”   And I don’t know if you meant me personally or just ‘you’ as a general statement.  But I am not Democrat, I am conservative on the vast majority of issues. I’m just not Republican or MAGA.  I am very much in favor of Voter ID.  I think it’s downright dumb that in my 50’s I have to show ID for a can of dip but people want to fight ID for voting. I would rather see a situation where elections span over a couple/few weeks so that mail in voting is strictly limited to military overseas and those incapacitated and can’t leave their home, and outside of that everyone must show up in person with an id if they want to participate and cast their vote.  And again I agree there is shadiness on both sides, but I’m not going to take seriously someone spending years and years crying stolen election, when that same person has pulled off some of the most notorious acts of trying to steal an election in the history of our country.  And interjecting someone questioning results in interviews as if they are the same as those acts during 2020…and beyond….is very much deflection. 

[Offthemat]

Did someone miss the whole ‘Crossfire Hurricane’, Steele Dossier, Muler Investigation ordeal?  

[Simpleman424]

2 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

A lot in here that is fair, and agree with most.  Couple things I would argue (for lack of better term)….

I absolutely agree that people on both sides participate in nefarious activities when it comes to elections. No doubt about it.  The ‘deflection’ part comes on a couple different levels.  One being this topic is  on the election integrity speech the other night, citing the document dump announced during that speech. It wasn’t about Hilary questioning the execution of the election ten years ago. And being that Cav has a history of….one day we must stay on topic but another day it’s okay to deflect to other topics, all based on comfort level with the topic…I just brought up his latest example of flip flopping.  Second, and even more to the point….she absolutely has questioned the execution of 2016 years ago and still recently.   However, she conceded on election night; she didn’t assemble a fake slate of electors to go in and cast unauthorized votes, she didn’t call secretary of states with threats and demands to create more votes, she didn’t flood the courts with lawsuits and when lost every one of them, she didn’t assemble a crowd of thousands, get them all riled up and send them to the Capitol, saying quote “you must fight or you won’t have a country anymore” (among lots of other things) and tell the crowd she was going with them, only to go sit in front of the TV and watch cops get the shit kicked out of them in her name; she didn’t tell an angry crowd going at the Capitol that the VP was a coward because he wouldn’t violate the constitution…and on and on.  I am not and never have been any fan of Hillary Clinton, I think she’s dirty as f**k, but to interject her into this conversation as if her response to her election loss is the same as the President’s is not only deflection, it’s outright dishonest. There is a reason dozens of officials who worked in the first Trump administration and were very much behind his policies and very much wanted him to win the 2020 election, refused to support him in ‘24.  There is a reason many who were very close to the inner workings of that campaign and the election results told him he lost.  
 

you stated “just admit you…….”   And I don’t know if you meant me personally or just ‘you’ as a general statement.  But I am not Democrat, I am conservative on the vast majority of issues. I’m just not Republican or MAGA.  I am very much in favor of Voter ID.  I think it’s downright dumb that in my 50’s I have to show ID for a can of dip but people want to fight ID for voting. I would rather see a situation where elections span over a couple/few weeks so that mail in voting is strictly limited to military overseas and those incapacitated and can’t leave their home, and outside of that everyone must show up in person with an id if they want to participate and cast their vote.  And again I agree there is shadiness on both sides, but I’m not going to take seriously someone spending years and years crying stolen election, when that same person has pulled off some of the most notorious acts of trying to steal an election in the history of our country.  And interjecting someone questioning results in interviews as if they are the same as those acts during 2020…and beyond….is very much deflection. 

Yea I think we would likely agree on the majority of things. I’d prefer not even mentioning her ever again but I saw a post by 103 and thought…eh come on man she shouldn’t be a measuring stick of any kind of morality.

Now, as to the sticky points. She did call and concede the election but to be fair that was under much different circumstances than he faced. He was done wrong on a scale we’ve never seen before. Those conversations come down to what people want to believe and what their beliefs in the system actually are. Those lawsuits were bound to lose…and really taught people how important judges are and how much people do NOT want to get involved with that kind of stuff. As for the Jan 6th stuff…again, extremist on all sides. Should you have to tell grown adults don’t storm capital buildings and inflict bodily harm on people? No…you really shouldn’t. You should be able to get grown folk riled up and out there to protest and shout to their hearts content…well he said fight so we should destroy government property and hurt people. Nah man that’s an idiots problem not a Trump problem. He requested support and everything for that in case things got out of hand and it was denied…multiple times I believe. For nefarious reasons. I don’t excuse the things he’s done or how he’s tried to “make things right” in his mind but he’s dealing with things we’ve never seen and there is no precedent for it so he’ll succeed or fail in the public court of opinion and I’d caution everyone to take everything with a grain of salt…there’s always half truths or things we’ll never know.

[jross]

Covid origins.  Biden is healthy.  Imane Khelif is a female.  Hunter Biden laptop is disinformation.  Russia collusion.  Just a few lies that many believed and many still do.  Yet the 2020 election that the D's wrote an article about how they rigged and of which all signals indicate was rigged was "the most secure election in history."

Gawh!

[WrestlingRasta]

21 minutes ago, Simpleman424 said:

Yea I think we would likely agree on the majority of things. I’d prefer not even mentioning her ever again but I saw a post by 103 and thought…eh come on man she shouldn’t be a measuring stick of any kind of morality.

Now, as to the sticky points. She did call and concede the election but to be fair that was under much different circumstances than he faced. He was done wrong on a scale we’ve never seen before. Those conversations come down to what people want to believe and what their beliefs in the system actually are. Those lawsuits were bound to lose…and really taught people how important judges are and how much people do NOT want to get involved with that kind of stuff. As for the Jan 6th stuff…again, extremist on all sides. Should you have to tell grown adults don’t storm capital buildings and inflict bodily harm on people? No…you really shouldn’t. You should be able to get grown folk riled up and out there to protest and shout to their hearts content…well he said fight so we should destroy government property and hurt people. Nah man that’s an idiots problem not a Trump problem. He requested support and everything for that in case things got out of hand and it was denied…multiple times I believe. For nefarious reasons. I don’t excuse the things he’s done or how he’s tried to “make things right” in his mind but he’s dealing with things we’ve never seen and there is no precedent for it so he’ll succeed or fail in the public court of opinion and I’d caution everyone to take everything with a grain of salt…there’s always half truths or things we’ll never know.

All fair and agreeable, I believe with one exception. I disagree with “not a Trump problem”.  I believe he knew what he was doing, I believe he knew, or at least suspected, how they would react.  And I think there is plenty of evidence of that in how he reacted to what was going on, mostly, the fact that for three hours he refused pleas from his most inner circle to call them off, while cops were being beaten, but rather, “treating it like a celebratory occasion” (Testimony from his deputy press secretary, who was with him that day).  Finally, over three hours later he put out the go home message; and it stopped immediately.  I think he knew exactly what he was doing.