fishbane

They were great, but I don’t think they ever had a placer at the D1 tournament. They won a D3 team title in 1988 or 1989. Dropped the program in 1995.

Vougar Oroudjov is the wrestling coach at NCC. His oldest son Nick wrestled at AU before transferring to Cornell. His other son Vito wrestled at Cornell. His youngest son George wrestles for Cornell.

John Clark was the head coach at St. Lawrence University. His sons Mitch and John both wrestled at Ohio State. St. Lawrence had dropped wrestling by the time John graduated high school. Mitch could have attended St. Lawrence, but St. Lawrence was only D3 and the writing was probably on the wall for the program too.

Bill Koll was retired by the time Rob Koll graduated high school, but he went to UNC and no PSU. Both of Rob Koll's sons went to Cornell.

Two sons.

Google AI has already established that is almost always the case. Yes, police union representatives are almost always current or recently retired police officers who are voted or appointed to their positions to represent their fellow officers. You are being overly pedantic in a way that doesn't change anything. You also did this when you tried to distinguish between police officers being responsible for the negative public sentiment and the police unions. If its police misconduct itself to blame for the change in public sentiment then police officers are to blame. It its underlying union corruption to blame then since they are run by police offices, police officers are to blame. If you are trying to blame the relative small number of non-police officers that work as union representatives, I think you are just wrong. I don't these individuals exist in large enough numbers for that to be the case. Evidenced by the fact that you have yet to find even a single verifiable real world example of it. But even assuming you are right police still control the union and would ultimately be responsible for the actions of its representatives. And even if you disagree with that I think we can both agree that it is unlikely that the police unions preferentially put democrats in the positions not filed by police officers, so you're initial assertion that the democrats are to blame is incorrect.

Feel free to quote where I said that.

The largest national union? The NEA is AFT are both much larger. And it isn't even a union. It's organized as a 501c8 not c5. At the top level it isn't a labor organization, but it does the kind of lobbying that many labor organizations do.

The link is nonsense that doesn't prove anything similar to you stating there is a non police officer union rep in some union you won't name. Probably because if you did wed see that most of the reps in that union are police officers too. If this were so common it would be easy to make a large well know police department where a bunch of non-police officer union reps. If you take out "all" from your Google query it completely changes the AI answer. It reads Yes, police union representatives are almost always current or recently retired police officers who are voted or appointed to their positions to represent their fellow officers. Which sounds a lot like what I have been saying. If police corruption is due to union corruption then police officers are responsible.

Which city is that?

Yes but crucially all the options are police officers. If the union president is corrupt it is a police officer that is corrupt. If the candidate that ran against the president was also corrupt then that means there are two corrupt police officers. So when I said police officers are largely to blame for the negative public sentiment towards them, if it turns out that the unions are the cause of the corruption then police officers are still to blame. At a minimum the police officers that are in the union leadership. You know it is not. I have given you examples of police unions in major cities where the union reps are police officers voted into position by police officers. I have asked multiple times for you to provide an example of a police union where that is not the case...

I’m not sure. The president recently said that she spent 31 of her 70 years teaching middle school. Making some general assumptions regarding when she started teaching and her career I’d say 17 years ago. Maybe less for the last time she was a middle school teacher. Might been more recent for teaching a single class of any kind. Teachers Unions are a little off topic of this particular thread, but I imagine the national body does lobbying and advocacy. Police do this too but not through a large national union. It through organizations like the Fraternal Order of Police (FOP).

I am less familiar with teachers unions, but all unions have some similarities. I am sure it works in much the same way overall. The main difference if that there are large national unions for teachers. The National Education Association (NEA) and the American Federation of Teachers (AFT) are two of the largest unions in this country. They have millions of members, hundreds of employees, and headquartered in Washington DC. The local chapter of the teachers unions might be operate similarly to the police union, but there is the big national body over top of it. That isn’t the case for police unions. This isn’t true of the DC MPD because they are in DC, but let’s use the Minneapolis MPD as an example. The rank and file are represented by the Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis (POFM) and there is no national office in DC with hundreds of full time employees to answer to. The POFM is run by a board of directors that are 10 police officers from the MPD voted for by the membership which are all MPD officers. They might have like 10 employees. So if the POFM is corrupt there is no national organization in DC with hundreds of employees and leaders elected by millions of teachers across the country to blame. It’s all Minneapolis police offices and a handful or two of admin staff and lawyers employed directly by them.

Union reps are police officers in the department that were voted into position by officers in the department. To the extent they are paid for their union responsibilities that comes from the union dues paid by officers. If there is corruption in police unions the blame for that must fall on the officers - the union leadership and its members. If you have an example of a police union that operates with non-police officers as labor representatives please provide it. I think you are either mostly wrong in the most police unions operate differently than you think (police officers are the union reps and leadership selected by police officers) or you are confusing the union rep with a lawyer that might be employed by the union or paid for by the union to advise or represent an officer in a particular legal matter.

A ridiculous statement that I, in fact, did not make! You can feel free to quote where I said that too. lol. It's more than a few bad apples, but nowhere near a majority. Still culpability for the toxic culture fall on the "good apples" in your metaphor. In Minneapolis a bad apple like Chauvin doesn't become a FTO without superiors putting him there. A bad apple like Lt. Bob Kroll who was president of the POFM at the time of the George Floyd murder didn't get to where he was without being promoted by superiors and voted into office by the rank and file. The same is true for of bad apple Michael Sauro who was fired and then rehired and promoted at MPD. MPD didn't end up with bad apples as lieutenants, FTOs, in leadership positions at the POFM, and paying out $40M+ in settlements with a culture where other officers were "hardest" on officer misconduct and absolutely held them accountable, weeding them out. It was a toxic culture that promoted them. Just the those few I mentioned that have been convicted, banned from policing, and fired represents 1% of MPD officers. Probably 2x+ that number have been disciplined that didn't make national news. The department as a whole must take responsibility for the toxic culture and it is a culture that is too common in policing. What is LOE?