Jamie_Taco

2 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Listen. You're obviously on your menstrual cycle. We can go on forever and argue or I can be the man in this situation and realize we'll never see eye to eye and exit the conversation.  

This man gets hit with the facts and instead of being an adult and admitting he was wrong, he makes a menstrual cycle joke. You're an assclown lol.

"I HaVe NoThInG aGaInSt IoWa AnD tHeIr PrOgRaM"

3 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

I lost interest.  

No, your opinions just got debunked with the facts.

5 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Taco had a Freudian slip but he edited

Hypothetically, let's say Iowa was giving out ten extra scholarships per year from 1976-1990, wouldn't that make their recruiting look even worse? 11 top HS recruits in 15 years while also having extra scholarship money to dish out doesn't exactly jibe with your theory.

You know, you can just admit that you are wrong and we can all move on, right?

Just now, MPhillips said:

 

Aren't you two saying the same thing here?

No, my comment had a typo that I already edited 30 seconds after I posted it lol:

I think it's pretty obvious those extra scholarships weren't being used to stockpile the nation's best HS recruits.

39 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

No, because Gable did stockpile the nation's top high school recruits.  I'll make my points in hoping we'll come to a general agreement but I highly doubt it.

1)  In terms of Royce Alger not being a top ranked recruit it's a failure of the wrestling media at that time.  It's unfair to cast total blame on wrestling media  during that era due to them not having the resources that Flo, @Husker_Duetc benefit from in this modern era.  By any metric, a 3x Iowa state champ and JR national title winner is a top 10 recruit.  

2) You're conveniently omitting or do not know that for years Gable gave extra scholarships.  Above the allotted amount allowed by the NCAA's which led to him eventually being sanctioned.  To be fair, other Big 10 schools were also doing it but Iowa wrestling egregiously went over the allowed allotment which was proven in a report I will provide for you.  Yes, Gable was stockpiling wrestlers. https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/miCaseView/report?id=101820  I dont blame Gable for doing this but he was gaming the system.  AND he stockpiled wrestlers

 

LOL dude. Even with the facts presented, you just can't admit you're wrong.

So Gable, without Flo and the internet, was somehow able to get all over the country and find the top guys that the media and other programs just didn't know about or didn't rank correctly? Is that really the argument you're trying to make here?

Also, egregiously?! You realize it came out to like 1.25 extra scholarships per year from 1987-1990, right?

“The powerhouse Iowa wrestling program reportedly was five scholarships over the limit during the period.”

And since Gable only signed 11 top-ranked kids in those 15 years in question, I think it's pretty obvious those extra scholarships weren't being used to stockpile the nation's best HS recruits.

Again, one person here is providing the facts. The other is providing their own personal opinions and hindsight.

2 minutes ago, ionel said:

Porta, you are supposed to be on odd hours, it's now even!  Oh ... I should have mentioned I'm central time zone, sorry.  

Your computer might have the AIDS..

Also, I have to correct something from earlier. I said there were seven 4x Iowa champs prior to Royce's HS days, but I was mistaken about his graduating year. There would have only been five 4xers prior to 1983 (Bob Steenlage, Jeff Kerber, Scott Morningstar, Joe Gibbons, Greg Randall).

6 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

I'm just here to see if Royce was a top ranked recruit.

Again, he was not. Royce graduated in 1983 from Lisbon High School and didn't even make the OTHER ALL-AMERICA SELECTIONS let alone the DREAM TEAM. Pretty cool to see John Smith on there though!

https://www.wrestlingusa.com/high-school/ewExternalFiles/1983 High School All-Americans.pdf

6 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

It's your homework when you're the one providing the info.  Anyways thanks for the links

You're welcome. Are you now ready to admit that Gable and Iowa didn't stockpile the nation's top high school talent? Who's the one living with "fever pitch delusions" again?

1 minute ago, Mike Parrish said:

Archive.org is your friend.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230209131835/https://www.wrestlingusa.com/high-school/records-and-rankings.html

There we go. Thank you, sir!

Just now, MPhillips said:

Indeed he did.

And I just provided since apparently you guys don't understand how to use the internet?

You're right, the link isn't working now for some reason. Wrestling USA mag used Asics Boys teams (1986-today); prior to that, you will need to check Win's Dream Team which will go back to the 60s. This is the last piece of homework I am doing for you guys.

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2010/July/15/1986-ASICS-BOYS-TEAM

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2010/July/15/1987-ASICS-BOYS-TEAM

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2010/July/15/1988-ASICS-BOYS-TEAM

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2010/July/15/1989-ASICS-BOYS-TEAM

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2010/July/15/1990-ASICS-BOYS-TEAM

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2010/July/15/1991-ASICS-BOYS-TEAM

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2010/July/15/1992-ASICS-BOYS-TEAM

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2010/July/15/1993-ASICS-BOYS-TEAM

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2010/July/15/1994-ASICS-BOYS-TEAM

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2010/July/15/1995-ASICS-BOYS-TEAM

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2010/July/15/1996-ASICS-BOYS-TEAM

1 minute ago, PortaJohn said:

Sooo, I cant find the link to where it shows the rankings during the Gable era?  

I can't help with the fact that you are google incompetent lol.

2 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Proper use in this case would be, "delusional" 

Lol the typo is the only thing you could come back with. I provided the facts, you provided the hindsight and opinions. 

4 minutes ago, ionel said:

So who had all the #1 classes, can you list for us by year?  Thanks.

https://www.wrestlingusa.com/high-school/records-and-rankings.html

Guess how many #1 recruiting classes Gable had during his Iowa career? Oh shoot, I will just tell you. One. He had one top recruiting class while coaching at Iowa, but you guys are right, they were stockpiling all the best recruits just like Cael LOL.

6 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Royce Alger was a 3X HS champ and won a JR National Title.  He was one of the best recruits in the country.  I have nothing against Iowa and their program but hot damn their fans these days are living with fever pitch delusions 

Lol one of the best recruits in the country according to who, exactly? It was certainly not the rankings, as I've already proven to you.

The fact you think Iowa'a recruiting even comes close to comparable to what we are seeing today at PSU just shows how delusion you are.

Just now, ionel said:

So can you recruit an entire team off of Iowa 4xers?

Lol wut?

7 minutes ago, ionel said:

And how many 4xers do you know of back then? 

Four 4x Iowa champs prior to Barry (Bob Steenlage, Jeff Kerber, Scott Morningstar, Joe Gibbons).

Seven 4x Iowa champs prior to Royce (Bob Steenlage, Jeff Kerber, Scott Morningstar, Joe Gibbons, Greg Randall, Mark Schwab, Dan Knight).

Did you have a point? Take a guess at how many of these 4xers I listed went on to win multiple NCAA titles along with Olympic and world medals..

13 hours ago, scourge165 said:

What site are you using here?

That Royce Alger isn't on there is telling. Gable certainly considered him a top recruit, as did ISU. 

I think this is an apples to oranges thing, but even with that, Barry Davis, Ed and Lou Banach, TJ Williams, these were all some of the best recruits in the Country and they all wanted to go to Iowa.
Didn't Ryan just show up at Iowa and tell Gable he wanted to come out for the team? That's a pretty nice guy to just show up at your doorstep and ask to come Wrestle for you. 

You have actual Wrestling showcases now that you didn't have in the whole time Gable was there, but he was definitely getting premiere talent. 

You're comparing era's of Wrestling that were just WAY too different, but at a time when there was less Wrestling coverage than there is now, not only do I not buy the premise that Iowa didn't get the best Wrestlers, but I also don't get why this is a point of contention.

BOTH programs built themselves into the type of powerhouse that the best athletes WANTED to Wrestle at. 

 

Wrestling USA Magazine, which is about the only rankings I know of from back then.

Barry and Royce weren't even Iowa HS 4xers, TJ was a community college recruit and never wrestled for Gable, the Banach's were multiple sport athletes and weren't top 10 recruits, and Tom Ryan transferred to Iowa from Syracuse, so I highly doubt he just showed up one day lol.

Someone made the comment that Iowa stockpiled talent just like PSU is doing, and the fact is, that's simply not true. Gable was a master motivator and was known for developing good, not great, kids into champs (e.g. Chris Campbell won a single HS state title, then went to on to win three NCAA titles, a world gold, and an Olympic medal). Sure he had some top guys come in over the years as I've shown, but it was nothing in comparison to what we are seeing happen with Cael and PSU.

Just to compare:

Penn State's Top 10 Recruits under Sanderson (2009 - 2024) (1.9 per year):

2009

1. David Taylor, St. Paris, OH

2010

1. Andrew Alton, Lock Haven, PA
2. Dylan Alton, Lock Haven, PA

2011

1. Morgan McIntosh - Santa Ana, CA
2. Nico Megaludis – Murrysville, PA

2012

1. Jimmy Gulibon – Derry, PA

2013

1. Zain Retherford – Benton, PA

2014

1. Jason Nolf - Rural Valley, PA
2. Nick Nevills - Clovis, CA
3. Bo Nickal – Allen, TX

2015

1. Vincenzo Joseph – Pittsburgh, PA

2016

1. Mark Hall - Apple Valley, MN
2. Nick Suriano – Paramus, NJ
3. Mason Manville – Lorton, VA

1. Brady Berge
2. Nick Lee

1. Aaron Brooks
2. Michael Beard

1. Greg Kerkvliet
2. Carter Starocci

9 hours ago, Holtfan said:

Not to long ago Iowa won 11 of 12 and 9 of 10 and in a span of 25 years, Iowa won it 20 times.......and not many people complained about them getting all the talent back then.  

 

That's because Iowa and Gable weren't getting all the top talent back then. Gable averaged less than one top-10 recruit per class. It was also a lot harder to find the best of the best back then. You had to travel and use your contacts; no Flo to watch matches.

Iowa Top 10 Recruits under Gable (1976 - 1997) ( .76 per year):
1976

1. King Mueller Bolingbrook HS, Bolingbrook, IL
2. Mike DeAnna Bay Village HS, Bay Village, OH

1977

1. Randy Lewis Stevens HS, Rapid City, SD
2. Dean Phinney Clear Lake HS, Clear Lake, IA

1978

1979

1. Mark Trizzino Central HS, Joliet, IL
2. Jeff Kerber Emmetsburg HS, Emmetsburg, IA

1980

1981

1982

1983

1. Steve Knight Clinton HS, Clinton, IA
2. Mark Sindlinger Charles City HS, Charles City, IA

1984

1. Joe Melchiore Highland Reg. HS, Blackwood, NJ

1985

1986

1987

1. Bart Chelesvig Webster City HS, Webster City, IA

1988

1989

1990

1. Ray Brinzer N. Allegheny HS, Wexford, PA * [Iowa did not recruit Brinzer]

1991

1992

1. Mike Mena Newman Central Catholic HS, Illinois
2. Lincoln McIlravy Phillip HS, South Dakota

1993

1. Jeff McGinness Iowa City HS, Iowa
2. Joseph Williams Mt. Carmel HS, Illinois

1994

1995

1996

6 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Is it slander when he pleaded guilty?  I mean even Spencer Lee admitted Iowa wasn't actually recruiting Anthony.   

Sometimes getting away from your family can be a good thing, even if you aren't just trying to stay out of trouble.

Spencer played dumb but he never said Iowa wasn't recruiting Anthony. Anthony was in Iowa City this past weekend and it sounds like everything went really great. There are also rumors around town that Angelo will be enrolling at Iowa City, City High for the fall. Take that as you will.

4 minutes ago, ionel said:

He is certainly behind all the 3x undefeated NCs and then there's the 3x NC's with fewer losses better placing in the non champion year list.   Its a long enough list to not worry where he ranks.  But he is perhaps still #1 on the Jimmy goat list. 

What a dumb way to look at all-time rankings. I guess by this criteria, David Taylor is behind T.J. Williams (98-1) on the list of best 2xers, but we all know that's not true lol.

Just now, Perry said:

There is no guarantee Lee would have won it during the covid year, even if he was the front runner in the bracket.

I am curious who you think was going to beat him that weekend. If there was ever a guaranteed year for Spencer Lee, it was 2020. There is no argument that this season was when we saw the best Spencer Lee.

Who do you think is beating him that year from this bracket? And how confident are you in that pick?

2 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Every wrestler who lost their senior year NCAA tournament due to Covid was hit worse than Spencer Lee.  

Okay, yes, I agree with you there, but you understand what I am saying in regard to this discussion. Spencer's healthiest season was 2019-20, and it cost him a fourth title and a potential Olympics run.