BruceyB

This is awesome. I was hoping you would pull something like this in. I always find these interesting. Without a doubt Iowa has been the most consistent program during the Cael era, as shown above. But I was more referring to the best program at developing talent. I wasn't even stating that they weren't. I'm just questioning the attitude that Iowa is clearly doing the best in development outside of Penn State and it's forbidden to question the TnT regime. I just think that if your team is not getting better, than you are either complacent with where you are at, think that it's just a temporary lull, or you should make a change. If I'm an Iowa fan, what has happened in the last 15 years to make me think we're getting better? If you have the time, I'd be interested to see (starting with the Gable era) a graph of how many NCAA champions Iowa has produced over the years. I can't imagine anyone from the Gable era would be satisfied if you told them they were going to have 4 wrestlers become national champions over the course of 15 years. AAs shouldn't be the standard for Iowa, becoming a National Champion should.

Oh, obviously. The database wasn't updated and Figs completely slipped my mind.

I was responding to @Gene Mills Fan as he seemed to be insinuating that if other programs had the same recruiting classes, they would be doing the same thing as Penn State.

I had 3? Jenkins, Robles, and Zahid? Who did I miss?

A bunch? The only wrestlers from the class of 2018 still wrestling in college are in their seventh year thanks to two redshirts and the covid-year. If the rules allow it, sobeit, but I think guys wrestling in college for a span of seven years is a little preposterous. And even more preposterous is granting an Olympic Redshirt to a healthy athlete who didn't even attempt to make the team. I know you're a fan, but you have to understand that it's a little ridiculous, though not against the rules apparently. Edit: Not too often you see the big boy cradle.

He lost control while attempting a tilt and got stuck on his back. I don't put much stock into this loss. And Vincent Robinson might just be that guy.

Impressive. Looks like he'll be a good one. Glad to see Minnesota stocking up some young studs. It'll be fun to see what Hopke looks like after going with Gable all year. Millard, McEnnely, and Hopke should be a good core moving forward.

Ah. This wasn't the case when Cael first showed up to PSU. But as they continue to turn their prospects into national champions, while other schools have routinely failed to do the same, the top athletes have been funneled into the only school consistently putting wrestlers on top of the podium. In the last 15 years, PSU has put 17 different wrestlers on top of the podium. Cornell - 7 Iowa - 4 Oklahoma State - 4 Ohio State - 4 Michigan - 3 (Including Suriano) Missouri - 3 If you were a top recruit and wanted a national title, where would you go? Other programs have to show a better rate of developing prospects into national champions before the funneling of top talent to PSU slows down.

This is honestly the most heart warming admission I have seen on this board.

I'll agree, as I stated in the National Duals thread, that the NCAA tournament is not necessarily an accurate depiction of how good a team is. That said, my real point was to combat the narrative that Iowa has separated themselves in any way from the field. They are always a very, very, good dual team. They often fail to wrestle to their seeds at nationals. The rest of my post was pointing out the Brands' failure to develop their talent into national champions. I understand Iowa fans being loyal to a legendary Hawkeye that was able to bring the program back on top by winning titles from 2008-2010, but I don't understand the reluctance to admit that the expectations of Iowa wrestling should be higher than what is currently taking place. The expectations should be bringing in high level recruits and developing them into national champions, not just AAs. I don't know that there is a better option than the Brands at the moment, but I'm curious, as an Iowa fan it has to be maddening watching Penn State churn out champions like a factory and failing to do anything close to the same. The recruiting has also taken a notable hit over the last handful of years. Look, I don't like Iowa, but I want Iowa to be in contention for a team title every year so I can root against you when it matters. College wrestling needs Iowa to be the big bad guys. I'm optimistic that David Taylor will be able to move OKST closer to PSU, and hopefully in a few years be competitive with them, and I would love nothing more than Iowa to be there too.

What on earth does this mean?

Where does this notion that Iowa is clearly the second best program during the PSU era even come from? It was true in 2020, and 2021. Other than those two years, they have finished in 2nd twice in the 15 years of PSUs dominance. It's not like if PSU didn't exist that Iowa would be winning the national title every year. In the Tom Brands era 8 separate individuals have become national champions, and they haven't developed a national champion above 133 since St. John in 2013. In the same timeframe, Cornell has 9 separate individual national champions, including two 4x champs. Penn State has put 17 different wrestlers on the top of the podium during Cael's tenure. During these same years, Iowa has 4. When Cael arrived at Penn State, Iowa was still getting the same quality of recruits each year. This started to change when PSU was putting their wrestlers on top of the podium each year, and Iowa couldn't do the same. Iowa is not even in the discussion about developing wrestlers in comparison with Penn State. No one is. I'm not even trying to bash Iowa here. I'm just tired of this false narrative that it goes Penn St, then Iowa, and then everyone else.

Some promising results from BeauMan and Gilcher.

He barely beat Spencer Lee with a blown ACL in high school, and he had a couple wins during RBY's true freshman year. Desanto without a doubt improved during his time at Iowa, just not enough to beat Fix or RBY.

That's fair. They probably would have only been outscored by 70 without suspensions.

It's been a few years since this was true. They were outscored by over 100 points while placing 5th last year, and weren't within 50 points the two years prior. This isn't necessarily a knock on Iowa. No one can be meaningfully compared to Penn State.

@AnklePicker pretty much covered what needs to be said.

Go back a few weeks and find the thread where you can read everyone's thoughts on this.

Thank you. That is all I aspire to be.

I would agree to each their own. I am a glutton for wrestling coverage. I enjoy looking at rankings, prognostications, previews before a big dual, a breakdown after the dual, and I also really enjoy the limited amount of big freestyle events that get coverage. The build up before the actual event, and then seeing how it unfolds compared to my predictions and the predictions of those that are "knowledgeable" makes the event more intriguing for myself. If you're only concerned with NCAA streaming, then, yes, ESPN and Big10 provide much more coverage as they own the broadcasting rights to the majority of duals, conference tournaments, and of course the biggest of all, the NCAA championships. I pay for ESPN+ and BIG10/BIG10+ to watch the matches, I pay for Flowrestling because I want everything that surrounds the actual event.

Midseason shows discussing the latest news in college wrestling. College rankings. High school rankings. Recruiting updates. Big boards. Literally any high school coverage. Match previews. Match recaps. U.S. Open coverage. WTT/OTT coverage. u17/u20/u23 coverage. Brackets. An archive of matches after they happen. Coverage of World's and content leading up to the event. A breakdown of Worlds/Olympics after they are completed. Just to name a few aspects of coverage and promotion that Flo does superior to ESPN. When I want to look up an old match or information regarding wrestling, I have never once gone to ESPN.com. Edit: Typo

I wish I knew. Good rebuttal.

Certainly you jest.

Hopefully his early commitment helps sway some other notable names to join him.

I think the disappointment is not so much from the outcome, but the way they wrestled. Illinois' wrestlers were trailing in the third and still not willing to take a risk. It was simply uninspired wrestling. In the PSU vs Nebraska dual, the score was equally lopsided but Nebraska at least showed up, and they were huge underdogs at many weights. 174 Pinto attacked frequently, and even gave up a reattack takedown because of it, but at least he came out and wrestled. He was active in scrambles and wrestled like he believed he could win. At 285 at least Andrews said f*** it and went for broke with the throw. Again, he tried. 133 Van Dee goes for the winn-dixie and gets it. 141 Hardy made a Beau Bartlett match either the most or second-most entertaining bouts of the night. 149 Ridge wrestled tough and came out with the win over SVN who was most people's pick going into the match. Illinois had no urgency, no aggression, and seemed apathetic about the results of their matches.