SocraTease

I'm not trying to diminish their accomplishments. They have wrestled at extremely high levels and should be commended and celebrated. Yianni had 2 years off though, right? Dake won so many close matches. He was nowhere near as dominant overall as DT, whom (yes) he beat in close matches. But Taylor (who won 2 titles) is absolutely a better wrestler overall than four timers like Pat Smith, Steiber, and (so far) Yianni. In fact, I would say he has surpassed even Sanderson. Same thing could be said about Boroughs, who "only" won two titles. Or even Spencer Lee. Much more dominant than Yianni. Cornell doesn't wrestle the level of competition that the Big Ten faces. My point: the four timer focus is not the sole or absolute measure of greatness. Yes, luck figures into it. A very large swath of people (especially religious, conservative, anti-scientific folks) like simple solutions and explanations. They over-emphasize personal control (responsibility) and downplay or ignore all the conditions and contributing factors that are outside our control. Wade Schalles (a great wrestler and very creative, fierce mind) recently pointed out (honestly and frankly) in an interview with Mark Bader that wrestlers are not the smartest lot as a whole. They are like football players academically (or worse) and in other ways. And he was right in terms of the data. And, I would add, my own observations for what small worth they might be. Yes, there are exceptions, but they prove the rule.

The 4-timer stuff is so compromised and fetishized. It doesn't account for the level of competition and other variables. A 3-timer like Nolf (who only barely lost in the finals to an NCAA champ his freshman year whom he earlier pinned) is actually better than a 4-timer like Yianni. And he was absolutely more dominant than Yianni or Dake. Steiber won some finals he arguably should not have given the calls. Luck, draws, and other factors play so much of a role. Most people are only capable of thinking in terms of simple causality. The world doesn't work that way. It's a mental blindness of the worst kind and attributable in large part to evolutionary psychology.

RBY didn't show his lightning speed that much tonight. He wrestled more tactically and was put on the defensive too much. I'm looking forward to see the two tango again in freestyle at 61KG

A few of the finalists seemed to cast their vote for wrestlers named Jesus or God. One gave a penalty point to a fellow named Mohammed (Brooks). One voted for his balls (Starocci). One voted against himself (Yianni, who said he has to get much better). Several voted for their parents or the genetic lottery. One or two gave a partial vote to their coaches. One may have voted for his losing opponent (O'Toole). And a celebrity with body guards in the stands voted for himself. In fact, I think he gave himself a dozen or so votes. And said they are still looking for the rest of the ballots.

They would probably settle for Griffith of Stanford or a rejuvenated Fecundo.

Very, very rarely does an athlete (or celebrity) say anything interesting, especially immediately after a performance. They are mostly known for their bodies, not their minds or creative tongues. There are a few exceptions, and those often involve the use of humor and light heartedness or just the expression of gratitude. Being silent is frequently a good option: it at least generates mystique or mystery or the illusion of profundity.

Hey Q: Just because guys are good athletes doesn't mean they can or should get into any school they want. Academic standards should be (and sometimes are) even higher than athletic standards.

Sasso needs to find his inner assassin tonight.

I just did the dishes, laundry, and made a sandwich during this toooooooo loooooooooong review

He can't. He's a 5th year senior. He already got the extra Covid year. Finished 8th I think as a freshman, then first, first, and now second.

A strange thought: Ramos might conceivably be remembered longer over time as the guy (a la "Larry Owings") who took out Spencer Lee than Glory who ending up winning the weight. At least he might be more likely to become a "Jeopardy Question" on wrestling boards 20 years from now.

Who you got at 125? The wild upstart from Purdue or the Prince(ton) going for Glory yet denied his vision quest?

The 285 match might have unfolded differently if Kerkviliet had gotten that first takedown instead of being taken down. Yea, I know, what ifs ... or "counterfactuals" as they are technically called. What if a bullfrog had wings ... he wouldn't hit his butt on the ground when he lands

He's the un-Starocci. Goofy and free-spirited. Both are PA guys, though, I think.

Yes, self deception can become a positive psychologically in competition. If you believe you are the best, it can motivate you. In other walks of life and life more generally, it is usually a negative for you and especially others

In his post match interview with Q, Nino is looking like a flesh eater ... who just got out of the blood round

What is Ferrari likely doing right now? Pumping weights and shooting at the TV while claiming he should be in the Finals? Hanging out with PD III?

I will look for the tape of it later. He was speaking quickly.

Yep.

Brooks slips in a provocation to his religious remarks: he referred to the "false prophet Mohammed". Not going to score any points with the Iranians or some of the Russians. Or, for that matter, free-thinking atheists.

Hmm. You are right at least about the lineage of influence and teaching. As some folks here likely know, Plato was a great wrestler. See article below. Aside: I think RBY has the word "wrestle" written in Greek on his arm. Look for it tonight. Plato’s Body, and Mine By Bill Hayes IF only I had read Plato. That’s what I thought when I saw my MRI: 28 images, impossible to deny, of a torn rotator cuff muscle — a consequence of years of weightlifting. And that’s just my shoulder. May I present C4, C5 and C6 (my herniated discs), my plantar fasciitis, my patellar tendinitis — residual damage done to a body, now 51, in the name of exercise, in pursuit of being buff. Plato could have warned me. In “The Republic,” he advises “temperance” in physical training, likening it to learning music and poetry. Keep it “simple and flexible,” as in all things, don’t overdo. Follow this course, and you will remain “independent of medicine in all but extreme cases.” Plato was an athlete, particularly skilled as a wrestler. His given name was Aristocles, after his grandfather, but the coach under whom he trained is said to have called him “Plato” — from the Greek for broad, platon, on account of his broad-shouldered frame. It stuck. So good a wrestler was Plato that he reportedly competed at the Isthmian Games (comparable to the Olympics), and continued wrestling into adulthood. Ensconced at the academy, he spoke strongly on behalf of the virtues of physical education. He felt that one should balance physical training with “cultivating the mind,” exercising “the intellect in study.” The goal “is to bring the two elements into tune with one another by adjusting the tension of each to the right pitch.” Equal parts thought and sweat, so to speak. As one can see most obviously in gifted athletes and performers, the body itself can be a source of knowledge — coordination, grace, agility, stamina, skill — both intuitive and learned. Indeed, there are rare few whom I would call Einsteins of the body — geniuses at inventing, expressing and employing movement. Is that not what the dancer and choreographer Mark Morris is? Or the tennis great Roger Federer? The contemporary philosopher (and self-admitted sports nut) Colin McGinn points out that physical education should be a lifelong pursuit. “We like our minds to be knowledgeable, well-stocked with information; we should also want our bodies to be similarly endowed,” he writes in his charming book “Sport.” “The erudite body is a good body to have.” Of course there is the risk of taking things too far. Again, from “The Republic”: “Have you noticed how a lifelong devotion to physical exercise, to the exclusion of anything else, produces a certain type of mind? Just as neglect of it produces another?” Plato writes, recounting the words of Socrates. “Excessive emphasis on athletics produces an excessively uncivilized type, while a purely literary training leaves men indecently soft.” Even if I’d been sitting at Plato’s feet as a young man, I would not have listened. Back then, looking good and getting bigger mattered most. I suppose it was all very Darwinian — puffing myself up and trying to make myself attractive in order to attract a mate. But I was not explicitly conscious of such aims. I liked working out in itself, the pure satisfaction of using full force against a resistance. I sought what Pavlov — a lover of biking, rowing and swimming — so beautifully called “muscular gladness.” Alas, today I’m paying a price in frayed muscle tendons. But in my aches and pains I am choosing to see wisdom gained. If the human body is the best picture of the human soul, as Wittgenstein said, then mine is pumped. But I have pressed pause on the StairMaster and stepped away from the heavy weights for a time. Now it is Plato’s body to which I aspire. Bill Hayes is the author of “The Anatomist,” who is at work on a book on the history of exercise.

I sense that you might know less than nothing about Socrates, his pupil,Plato (who was the one to essentially make him famous through his written dialogues), or philosophy. Socrates at least knew (or, more likely, claimed ironically) that he knew nothing. Many hated him because he revealed through discussion, dialogue, and debate that the politicians, priests, and poets of his polis (city state) didn't know what they were talking about, and they took revenge on a man who encouraged others to think for themselves. He also didn't fear death and was willing to die for the truth. The Socratic dialogue and dialectic has been justifiably of great value to western forms of learning form universities to law schools. Socrates survives through his genius. Those who hated him and helped to put him to death do not. PS: Socrates influenced positively lots of important historical figures like Martin Luther King. He also generally stood for the values of free speech and thought. His politics can be admittedly questioned, but that's a whole other matter. It's good to see a few others interested in standing up for freedom of expression in a time when that is threatened in so many different ways: cancel culture, book bans, etc. I was simply reporting a relevant news story during the "down time" between sessions in the tournament. If that feels threatening to anyone, well, just skip the thread and enjoy the action later.

I posted it hesitantly, but if it is perhaps going to happen, fans might want to know about it and be prepared, regardless of one's political or other views

Mr. Trump made the declaration on his site, Truth Social, at 7:26 a.m. on Saturday in a post that ended with, “THE FAR & AWAY LEADING REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE AND FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, WILL BE ARRESTED ON TUESDAY OF NEXT WEEK. PROTEST, TAKE OUR NATION BACK!”

It's being reported on a lot of the local (Tulsa) media. For example: https://tulsaworld.com/sports/college/osu/bill-haisten-trump-the-ncaa-wrestling-curveball-no-one-expected/article_38265bea-c50b-11ed-9974-439214c83829.html