BAC

Did he say no? I know he's said that in the past but I saw they're trying to rekindle it.

Seems harsh. The kid wants to start. Maybe he has goals of being a 4x AA. Is everyone who transfers because they want a better shot at starting "mentally weak"? He could think he'd win 3 of 4 against Welsh, but I'm guessing he's no dummy -- he knows he could also drop some against a NCAA runner-up. Personally I'd pick Ryder over Welsh. Hope we see it next year.

LOL. No need to be so vague, what exactly did those cheaters at PSU "almost definitely" do in this (as you call it) "classic Lance Armstrong situation," and what's your evidence? Surely there must be some objective basis to accuse impugn them and Welsh beyond Basch's premature call, no? Looks to me that Welsh wanted to come so he came, which made Ryder want to leave so he left. But clearly you are aware of some nefarious "poaching" going on so maybe you can lay it out for us?

I wonder how this is going to go down for the schools who have way more than 30? Especially since only a fraction of the guys at risk of being cut are in the portal. One possibility is some guys are transferring but not using the portal to do it. There's very few guys who aren't good enough to make the 30-man roster cut, but still good enough to attract a scholarship offer from another school. So for those guys, if they really want to wrestle, can't they just forego the portal and transfer to another school where they think they can walk-on and make the team? Another possibility is the schools are devising a workaround, so there won't actually be any cuts. Back in the day, my college coach walked in one day and said "Due to Title IX we have to cap our roster. It won't impact you, but from now on, half of you will be on the varsity team, and half on our newly-created club team. We'll all practice together." Everyone shrugged and went back to practicing. It literally had zero impact. Guys who were starters or spot-starters stayed varsity, other were on club, and they'd swap back and forth as needed. Nothing more than an accounting gimmick. Can schools like USU do the same thing now? For example, can Taylor tell these guys, "you're now on the RTC but we'll all keep practicing together as before" and nothing else changes? I'm reading there's no exceptions to the roster caps, but... I wonder. If I'm wrong, then I guess some guys might just quit or get cut next year.

I don't think Zepeda has taken a step back so much as Shaw took a step forward. Shaw wasn't the same guy at the end of the year that he was in the beginning. Bassett v Vega will be awesome, but I think it favors Bassett stylistically.

I'd have to check but I think maybe Glazier started a few duals for Iowa. Might've even picked up a win or two.

Seriously? THAT is your point? LOL. Literally no one on the message board stated definitively what happened. Because, you know, we aren't Welsh/PSU. People expressed opinions, some even identified facts supporting them (shocking, I know), but no one here has any first-hand knowledge so far as I'm aware. So who are you even arguing with? Wait, I thought your point was that no one knows what happened. So why aren't you also annoyed at the people immediately assuming misconduct by PSU/Welsh? You haven't said a peep about that. Your annoyance seems a tad... one-sided, no? In any case, since no one is saying they know for certain PSU/Welsh followed the rules (only expressing that opinion, backed up with facts), it sounds like what you *really* mean by "white knighting for PSU" is "not immediately accusing PSU of violating the rules and Welsh of lying." Maybe you can reword it to clarify that your beef is with people "not defaming PSU/Welsh"? I don't have any evidence that you strangled 17 kittens in broad daylight yesterday. And sure, there may be some facts pointing the other way, some alibis and denials and stuff. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU DIDN'T DO IT. Just because I don't know what happened, I'm sure not gonna "white knight" you with the assumption you AREN'T a kitten killer. I mean, c'mon Brucey, look how many kittens get killed every year!

They are data points. Some are facts, some are interpretations of facts, but every one is grounded in fact, whereas your accusations are not. You're just questioning peoples' motives. You rely on Basch but even he corrected his tweet when he realized he jumped the gun. Your fact/opinion distinction also lacks substance. When I say Ryder and Welsh are comparable wrestlers, is that an opinion? Sure. Is it grounded in fact? Yes, based on Ryder's record/wins -- and I'm yet to hear a single person interpret the data differently. Similarly, is everything Welsh says necessarily factually true? Don't know, but his saying it is a fact, and there's no one with first-hand knowledge saying otherwise. Bottom line is you're simply rejecting all the data and preferring an entirely made-up conclusion, instead -- if I'm reading you correctly -- accusing wrestlers of lying, coaches of cheating and rule-breaking, saying PSU is "just like Lance Armstrong," and so on, all because (so far as I can tell) PSU is your school's rival. Depends what "game" you're talking about. Trying to nab the best talent from the portal? Absolutely. Donors using NIL funds as a carrot? Yup. Coaches contacting wrestlers enrolled at other schools (or directing others to contact them) before the portal window opens, unsolicited, to try to broker a deal for them to transfer to their school? No. That's not the "game." That's a serious recruiting violation, and if caught leads to firings/dismissal, fines, probation, suspension. Does it still happen? With some schools, apparently so. It sounds like you think Iowa is complicit. Is that why you're so quick to trot out the "everyone else is doing it too" defense? I dunno, but just because some are guilty, doesn't mean all of them are. To be clear, none of this is about defending PSU. Were they guilty, or even if there were serious evidence of it, I'd be the first to dogpile on them. I certainly don't think they operate on some higher ethical plane than everyone else. But I do think the vast majority of schools try to follow the rules (muddy as they are), including PSU, if only because the consequences of not doing so (and getting caught) are cataclysmic. But sure. Stick with the "PSU contacted Welsh long ago and convinced him/bribed him to transfer, and now he's lying about it while PSU covers it up" narrative. Free speech is a wonderful thing, though I think you're wise to maintain that "it's my opinion not a fact" disclaimer when you do it.

Just as I thought. You're incapable of identifying one specific thing I said that you disagree with (or any facts to support it), and are incapable of stating what actually caused Welsh to go to PSU if not what he said (or any facts to support it). Just smears, hyperbole and ad hominem attacks.

Sounds like you're just throwing rocks from the sidelines. What specifically did I say that you disagree with, and what specifically is your take, and the facts that support it?

It isn't my intention to question Vak's character, and I disavow that implication. I like Vak and think he is a good dude. But I think a fair reading of his comments is that he's accusing PSU of having intentionally induced Welsh's entry into the transfer with improper conduct, which would be a recruiting violation and highly unethical. That, to me, is a bridge too far and ought not be done without solid basis.

Well, you're not entirely wrong. I don't want PSU to be engaging in recruiting violations, I don't want their coaches conspiring to act unethically, I don't want wrestlers telling bald-faced lies to the public. But it's not PSU-specific. I don't want ANY school or ANY coach or ANY wrestler to be engaging in that conduct, and I'm definitely not going to presume it or make accusations without real facts. Here, there's just no evidence of it, and all facts point the other way. I think you know that too. Honestly, it sounds to me that you're still kind of salty about accusations people made last year about Iowa's transfers which you think are unjust. You're probably right about many of them, as people are quick to accuse Iowa of recruiting violations too. So I guess this is your payback? I dunno Vak. I'm all for pointing out hypocrisy, but I'm just not sure that making baseless allegations against other schools is the best way to go, especially when you're calling into question the integrity of the coaches and honesty of the wrestlers. That's just spite, and I think you're better than that.

One, the fact that PSU had Ryder, who most see as being on Welsh's level, making it illogical for PSU to affirmatively seek out Welsh as a replacement. Two, the fact that Welsh had a prior history of discontent at OSU that is unrelated to PSU, with a confirmed visit to OSU back in December and Ryan having to publicly quell the fire back. Three, Welsh's stated reason for preferring PSU -- that he wanted a stronger training room -- meshes well with his discontent at OSU, where he asked them to get better RTC guys but they weren't able to. Four, Welsh's own words, disclaiming that PSU was ever a foregone conclusion, but rather was one of a couple of frontrunners at the time. Fifth, the fact that the Mineo "done deal" tweets proved to be false (unless you call Welsh a liar), given his indication that he fielded numerous offers, and given the fact that he didn't commit right away. Sixth, the fact that PSU was offering less $ than other schools. Seventh, the fact that Welsh isn't exactly Cael's "type": all tatted up, a temper, apparently not recruited by PSU in high school. Eight, Starocci's pro-Ryder tweet, and Ryder's later departure, suggest that all of this happened very suddenly from PSU's perspective, as it wasn't pre-vetted with the team or Ryder. Ninth, the general absurdity of the notion that Cael, with a bunch of consecutive titled and strongly favored to win at least the next couple as well, would suddenly throw it all away by engaging in massive recruiting violations that could cost him his job and get him and his team suspended from competition. Tenth, the utter lack of any facts or evidence cutting the other way. Even Ryan, who's quick to whine about virtually everything, hasn't said a single sour word toward PSU about this. *** How about you. Do you have any facts that this was a massive conspiratorial rule-violating poaching of a competitor, planned and executed by those evil cackling PSU miscreant coaches? I'll wait.

Because it's what the facts point to. I think maybe you're just more willing to accuse decent people of massive fraud and recruiting violations than I am, and more willing to assume the existence of sprawling nefarious conspiracies on the thinnest of pretexts. In any case, it's hardly the best version of events for Penn State. They did an even-up trade for a guy who may or may not gel with his teammates, who has one less year of eligibility and has a history as a bit of a hothead, while losing the homegrown recruit. The Starocci tweet suggests they didn't adequately vet it with the team, and the fact that Ryder left suggests they didn't make enough of an effort to secure his buy-in. I'd say it's just about the worst version of events for PSU, unless one is willing to demean themselves with baseless accusations of lying, fraud, violations, conspiracies, etc.

If that's your perspective, then Wyatt is rightly higher on your P4P list. But to my eyes, Gable had him outclassed, but made an error at the end that cost him. Wyatt's hugely closed the gap, and may eventually surpass him, but if I were betting on a rematch, with 4-to-1 odds favoring Gable, I'd still bet Gable.