BAC

Can you imagine the atmosphere on the American bus ride as these guys head up to State College? The Bataan Death March on wheels.

Not buying that Alirez is ducking anyone. Remember this is a guy who entered the portal last year, and everyone was all up in arms about it and criticizing him for leaving a small program to chase after the bucks... and he ended staying. That's his reward, a bunch of guys saying he's ducking? When he's got NCAA and US Open titles under his belt? He may not run up the score much but the guy is a terror.

OK, now do THIS year, not two years ago, since the context is how Alirez should be seeded THIS year.

Although I think Alirez would probably beat Bartlett, and I slightly favor him over Mendez too, I think Beau should be the new #1. Both unbeaten and Beau has the stronger strength of schedule, and just beat #1. That's my rationale, but the real reason is the same as BruceyB's: I hate the fact that Bartlett and Mendez should have to face off in the semis for a third time just because Alirez never had to wrestle anyone in the top 10.

Seems like a great hire by USA Wrestling. Was this an open position, or was she specially hired to learn the ropes from, and eventually take over for, Terry Steiner? Either way, I'm guessing this will draw more women to the OTC, and help the sport.

I'm just going by what I saw. Wrestled very tentative. Little follow-through. It's like he didn't think his shots would work. That's what I associate with someone whose confidence is in the crapper. Yes, I'm sure the PSU coaches mix up partners, and I'm sure he's getting plenty of technique training, but there's probably not many guys in the room he can beat right now. What's more, he's a redshirt, so I doubt they're overly concerned about his confidence since he has the whole year to figure it out. I'd think the staff is focused more on the mental state and preparation of the starters. In spot-starting Sealey this weekend, they're using a guy who's right in the middle of the process of getting broken down and rebuilt.

If you don't like the "why is this Wrestler WORSE" than him argument, then stop saying Phillips is better than them. If you were just saying "Chris Phillips was great," no one would argue. He was great! But you literally said "This is the best HS Wrestler. " You wrote that. Don't say it if you can't back it up, or if you can't handle someone showing you why you are wrong.

What I saw in Sealey was a guy with Room Ragdoll Syndrome. Big-shot freshman comes in, and he gets torn apart every day in practice by the more experienced guys who are using him as their takedown dummy. Can you imagine what rolling with Mesenbrink every day must do to your confidence? Probably also Kasak, Haines, Van Ness, maybe Dake. He shoots a single, he gets scored on. Shoots a hi-C, gets scored on. Shoots a double, gets scored on. Ties up, gets scored on. Keeps space, gets scored on. All this stuff that used to work in high school, just doesn't work anymore, and the self-doubt creeps in. His stuff would work on 99% of the wrestling population, but he's wrestling the other 1%. You could see it in his wrestling. I wasn't that he didn't want to be there, it's that he didn't believe in himself. He'd start to shoot a shot, then sort of quit halfway, almost expecting it won't work. Tentative, low confidence, expecting to lose, looking sort of resigned to his fate. Some guys eventually figure it out, find the stuff that works against the other 1%, persevere through the tough times, until they get to a place where they can hold their own. That's Barr, Kasak, Haines, all with massive level-jumps from high school. Other guys... never figure it out. It's too early to say for Sealey. As of now, though, I don't think he's figured it out yet. I'd bet a lot of money that he's getting ragdolled every day in practice. Hope he sticks it out and finds his way to the other side.

I guess. To me, the Strickenberger thing is something where you discipline the kid when it happens, but when you're having a beer with your other coaches that night, you sort of snicker and high five each other. Whereas with the Ridge thing, you don't discipline the kid, but when you're having a beer with your other coaches that night, you just shake your head and bury you face in your hands. I'm probably just a bad person though.

My friend, the respect runs likewise, and I'm going to let you have the last word on this. I'm pretty sure I've exceeded my aggregate word limit anyway. To answer your question, among high schoolers, I've got Gable tops at HWT, and Synder tops at the 215/220 weight class. (As it happens, those are also my picks for senior-level GOATs at 125kg and 97kg, but they both get the high school award GOAT award too for their high school weights.) Absolute monsters.

It's all good brother. No one's saying Phillips sucked. He was obviously very good. You're only hitting resistance because you're not stopping there. You're going beyond that, and saying he had a better high school career than virtually everyone else. He's #2 on your all-time list right? And apparently several other posters on this thread. Fine, but that means you need to line up his career against every other top high schooler, and conclude that all these other guys are *worse* than him. I'll just pick three. Why is Gable Steveson worse than him? While in high school, Gable was unbeaten his last 4 years, won three age-group world titles, 4th in US Open and WTTs (beating multiple college AAs), multiple Fargo titles, won Junior Hodge. He then proved he was as good as advertised by making the NCAA finals the next year. Why is Kyle Snyder worse than him? While in high school, Kyle was 179-0, only taken down once, countless Fargo titles, youngest ever to win a Jr World title, only exhibition loss was 6-3 to Russian 6x World/Olympic champ Gatsalov as an 18 year old senior. He then proved he was as good as advertised by making the NCAA finals the next year and winning a senior world title at 19, the youngest ever. Why is Marcus Blaze worse than him? An Ohio boy, he's still trucking, with 3 Ohio state titles and multiple Fargo stop signs, his last loss at Ironman in OT a couple years ago as a soph (like Phillips). But since then, last year he beat NCAA #1-ranked and returning runner-up Ramos at a college folkstyle tournament, then took 3rd at Olympic Trials and 2nd at Senior WTTs, beating NCAA champs Megaludis, Garrett and Gross, plus 4x NCAA runner up (and Sr. World silver) Fix, before narrowly falling to the defending world champ Arujau, plus a Jr World bronze (losing only to Sr World champ Ono). That's all before his high school senior year. So tell me, what's your case for why all three of these guys are *worse* than Chris Phillips? What did Phillips do that dwarfs the accomplishments of these other guys?

Maybe it's just me but I distinguish between "most cringe" and "most unsportsmanlike." For example, the Strickenberger celebration may well cross the line to unsportamanlike, but it's also kind of badass, despite being disrespectful. When I think "cringe," I think Ferrari's flex + "665lb deadlift baby," or whatever the hell that is that Ridge was doing. Not unsportsmanlike, but I literally cringed. If I had to vote, I'd give it to Ridge.

I'm with you on Kolat. Although I agree with Billy that others have surpassed his accomplishments, when you factor in what he did relative to his time, there's a good case to have him #1. I'm not with you on Phillips. I'm sorry to keep beating this drum, but I really don't get where you guys are coming from on Phillips. He has zero Junior National freestyle titles or AA finishes, zero NHSCA folkstyle titles or AA finishes, zero Cadet or Junior world medals, zero age-group world teams qualified for, zero wins in the US Open. To be fair, he also didn't compete in these events. (Well, he tried out for FILA Cadets one year, but got pinned by Corey Peltier.) But we can't just hand him wins he didn't earn. That's the definition of "hype." How about his wins? Has he beaten any NCAA champions while in high school? Any NCAA All-Americans? Any college wrestlers at all? No, no, and no. Just other high schoolers. So how can you possibly put him above all these scores of guys who, as high schoolers, secured wins over college AAs, raked in international medals, and won national tournaments where the age wasn't capped at 16? I truly don't see the argument. All he has to his credit is a high school record with one official loss. That's nice, but in the context of "best ever," they're a dime a dozen. Ever hear of Cody Miller? He finished his high school career last year undefeated (143-0 in Washington). Is he best ever, since he has one less loss than Phillips? How about Peyton Ellis? Last year, he finished his high school career undefeated too, in Rhode Island. Is he better than Phillips? Best ever? Never mind that Miller decided to become a jeweler rather than wrestle in college, and Ellis went D-III, since college is "immaterial" according to you. Right here is a 20-year-old list of several dozen more undefeated high school wrestlers, there's been dozens more since then, but Phillips has to be behind all of them, right? And this is without getting to the even-longer list of one-loss high school wrestlers. If you say "yeah but who did they beat," then I say: My point exactly. See above. Phillips' hit-list is wafer thin, as are his out-of-season accomplishments, compared to the long list of guys that deserve to be ahead of Phillips. I'd be more open-minded to the Phillips argument if, despite seldom straying from his tiny school in Ohio's small-school division, he went on to wrestle D1 and, say, made the finals or won his freshman year on college. Then at least we could say, "dang, despite not wrestling or beating anyone well-known his last 2-3 years in high school, he must have been REALLY good since he was in the D1 natty finals just a year later." Let's call it the "Lincoln McIlravy exception," based on the relatively little-known high schooler who went unbeaten in tiny South Dakota, but won NCAAs as a true freshman, so suddenly he's in the "best high schooler ever" conversation. But that didn't happen. Phillips went to UNC, didn't work out for whatever reason, went to Ohio State, didn't work out for whatever reason there, either. Not sure if he had any college wins at all. Look, you're entitled to your opinion, you can put him wherever you want on your list. But if we're going off facts, he's definitely not top 100, and probably not top 200. He's not even in my top 10 of Ohio wrestlers.

Bear in mind that's Cadets, which is 16 & under. That's kind of my point: he excelled when he was on the young side of high school. I don't think he ever competed at the Junior level, and generally stayed away from national level tournaments after his freshman year. He won his Ohio D-III matches, and I think won another Ironman title, but has no signature wins to point to after beating Roddy (a guy who never AA'd). Not sure what happened at NC State / tOSU, but no wins there either. I'm not an Ohio guy, but it's interesting to me that the Ohio contingent has Phillips so high, when there are so many other great Ohio high schoolers to pick from. Dustin Schlatter was a terror and won NCAAs as a true freshman. Alan Fried was legendary. Lee Kemp was a late starter but beat Gable when he (Kemp) was only 18. Stieber and Taylor were legends, winning just about everything, Stieber placed at the US Open, and both were NCAA finalists as RS freshmen. Marcus Blaze is only a junior and might be the best high schooler of the bunch. Heck, I'd probably have CP Schlatter and the Palmer brothers above Phillips, and maybe Rowlands too. Still a hammer, though. I definitely remember what a stir he caused his freshman year. Seemed like a good kid too. Hope life has worked out OK for him.

Phillips lost to Ruth at Disney Duals (offseason) and again at Ironman. I may be misremembering but I think the Disney loss was his freshman year (either the summer before or after), and then in the Ironman semis as a sophomore. Based on those results, people like to analogize him to Ruth's excellent college career, but the reality is Ruth level-jumped once he got to PSU. He was really raw in high school, never winning a PA state title or even making the finals. He transferred to Blair as a senior, and reached #1 in his weight, but was a very different (better) wrestler two years later. If Phillips had level-jumped as Ruth did, he might have been an all-time great, but it just never happened. I don't mean to sound like I'm down on him. Still one of the best freshman upperweights ever. Some guys just peak early, and/or face obstacles later in their career that keep them from developing further. Sort of reminds me of Kenny Courts.