Crap Country: U.S. 46th In Life Expectancy

[GreatWhiteNorth]

12 hours ago, mspart said:

Obama care, as V says, has made things more expensive.  And that is with the subsidy that is ending at the end of this year.   Just imagine how bad it will be without that subsidy.   

Sounds like education.    Spend more money for a worse product. 

mspart

V is wrong. MNCare is still alive and well.

V is also wrong. ACA/ObamaCare has made things more affordable.

Sounds like you need to be educated. You need to be a better product.

As I posted in my last post above, this is a right-here right-now situation.

FOR ANYBODY WHO IS TRULY INTERESTED IN HEALTH CARE:

If you still think HC is too expensive, then you should join the conversation between R's and D's right now that is keeping the government shut down. D's are defending affordable health care on their side - R's want to take funding away from affordable health care.

Edited yesterday at 05:23 AM by GreatWhiteNorth

[WrestlingRasta]

A component regarding our low level of health in this country and the cost of healthcare that is not being talked about enough, is the demand for healthcare.  Like anything else in a capitalism society, when the demand is high, the cost is high.  The demand is high because we choose to be unhealthy in this country.  We choose foods that have more ingredients than an NFL team has players.  We choose to spend the vast majority of our waking hours off our feet. We choose to partake in a lifestyle of high stress. We choose to indulge in large amounts of alcohol and sugar.  There is definitely a genetic element to our health.  But there is also a choice element. And by and large in this country, we do not choose wisely.  This creates a large demand for high level health care.  And where there is high demand, there is high cost. 

[Scouts Honor]

6 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

V is wrong. MNCare is still alive and well.

V is also wrong. ACA/ObamaCare has made things more affordable.

Sounds like you need to be educated. You need to be a better product.

As I posted in my last post above, this is a right-here right-now situation.

FOR ANYBODY WHO IS TRULY INTERESTED IN HEALTH CARE:

If you still think HC is too expensive, then you should join the conversation between R's and D's right now that is keeping the government shut down. D's are defending affordable health care on their side - R's want to take funding away from affordable health care.

why did D's sunset the provision for the rebates?

b/c they wanted this exact situation

[Scouts Honor]

I went to a retirement seminar

everyone was asking questions about the prescription plans for all their pills

it was incredible.

im still fairly young. 

but I asked... at what point do we start asking the question... how do we get off of all these pills.

[Viratas]

6 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

V is wrong. MNCare is still alive and well.

V is also wrong. ACA/ObamaCare has made things more affordable.

Sounds like you need to be educated. You need to be a better product.

As I posted in my last post above, this is a right-here right-now situation.

FOR ANYBODY WHO IS TRULY INTERESTED IN HEALTH CARE:

If you still think HC is too expensive, then you should join the conversation between R's and D's right now that is keeping the government shut down. D's are defending affordable health care on their side - R's want to take funding away from affordable health care.

I am not wrong. If you are going to say I am wrong, support your position with at least one fact.

MNCare is Alive, but I would say it's not doing well at all. People who could afford it (not just the poor) now cannot get it. 

MN used a sliding scale that went up to 275% of the Poverty Level, and it offered very good coverage with a low deductible. So, what happens if you exceed 200%? You were kicked off and paying double and in some cases triple, even with the subsidy, especially as it related to co-pay (which were zero under the old system). So, for many people, the working mom who sits just above the threshold gets screwed. 

For the record, yes, sometimes I enjoy poking the bear, and my humor is my primary method of communication. With that said, I am not a liar (like some arrogant poster stated), nor do I generally say things like this unless I know it pretty well, not because I lived there, but because I have some level of direct knowledge. One thing Ray taught me about posting. Don't state something as fact you do not know much about.

I am wrong in life far more then right, and I have no issue being shown how wrong I am with data. People between 201% of FPG and 275% of FPG got screwed, no matter how you dice it, I know that to be 100% accurate.

So no, I did not lie on either account.

[red viking]

So which of the crazy wingers here want to turn poor people away from clinics and hospitals? 

Instead of whining and playing victim as always, what's your solution? 

[Viratas]

2 minutes ago, red viking said:

So which of the crazy wingers here want to turn poor people away from clinics and hospitals? 

Instead of whining and playing victim as always, what's your solution? 

Again, use specific where anyone said that?

I am all for affordable healthcare for everyone, not just those at the bottom. Maybe we could come up with a system that works if either side grew up and had adult conversations. What I liked about the old MN system is that it was a sliding scale based on income, which makes sense. 

Household Size – 100% FPG (2024) / 201% FPG (Salary)
1 Person: $15,060 | $30,270.60
2 Persons: $20,440 | $41,084.40
3 Persons: $25,820 | $51,898.20
4 Persons: $31,200 | $62,712.00

For each additional person, add:

• $5,380 | + $10,813.80

So based on this, a single mom, with one child, making a salary of $41,084 would not qualify, and under ObamaCare, does not need help with insurance. She will get the subsidy, sure, which is a shell game.

You get a lower premium, a very high deductible, and max out of pocket (for a person with no real disposable income). 

I believe in a far higher FPG threshold, and a sliding scale to make the premium, deductible, and max out-of-pocket reasonable. 

The real issue is that we are not attacking the problem, which is the terrible system we have created that allows everyone to overcharge. Drug companies charge too much, especially for new drugs, of which they only have a 7-year window to recover the R&D and government approval costs (unless you are a COVID-19 vaccine). How much of that is all true? Not sure. It should not cost $200 for me to get a check-up with no real tests or treatments.
 

There are numerous non-poltical reasons HC is stupid high. But we need are best thinkers to stop thinking with their partisan brains and start thinking with their real brains.

Your turn, RV, what are your specific recommendations?

 

[red viking]

31 minutes ago, Viratas said:

Again, use specific where anyone said that?

I am all for affordable healthcare for everyone, not just those at the bottom. Maybe we could come up with a system that works if either side grew up and had adult conversations. What I liked about the old MN system is that it was a sliding scale based on income, which makes sense. 

Household Size – 100% FPG (2024) / 201% FPG (Salary)
1 Person: $15,060 | $30,270.60
2 Persons: $20,440 | $41,084.40
3 Persons: $25,820 | $51,898.20
4 Persons: $31,200 | $62,712.00

For each additional person, add:

• $5,380 | + $10,813.80

So based on this, a single mom, with one child, making a salary of $41,084 would not qualify, and under ObamaCare, does not need help with insurance. She will get the subsidy, sure, which is a shell game.

You get a lower premium, a very high deductible, and max out of pocket (for a person with no real disposable income). 

I believe in a far higher FPG threshold, and a sliding scale to make the premium, deductible, and max out-of-pocket reasonable. 

The real issue is that we are not attacking the problem, which is the terrible system we have created that allows everyone to overcharge. Drug companies charge too much, especially for new drugs, of which they only have a 7-year window to recover the R&D and government approval costs (unless you are a COVID-19 vaccine). How much of that is all true? Not sure. It should not cost $200 for me to get a check-up with no real tests or treatments.
 

There are numerous non-poltical reasons HC is stupid high. But we need are best thinkers to stop thinking with their partisan brains and start thinking with their real brains.

Your turn, RV, what are your specific recommendations?

 

To limit what we fund for geriatric care. We don't need to spend millions just to let an elderly person live one additional year. Imo most of the waste is in pushing very hard to make old people live just a little longer. 

I don't see another good solution. Medical technology increases a lot every year, and the new ones are most expensive. We can't just pay for everything that is technologically possible.

I'd also make rich people pay more for Medicare and or cut their benefits. 

Edited 19 hours ago by red viking

[red viking]

...anyway...obamacare isn't why our life expectancy sucks and fat Americans are so unhealthy. It's because our food sucks, we allow pollutants everywhere including air, water and food and all the fat lazy people here drive everywhere instead of biking, walking etc

[Viratas]

8 minutes ago, red viking said:

To limit what we fund for geriatric care. We don't need to spend millions just to let an elderly person live one additional year. Imo most of the waste is in pushing very hard to make old people live just a little longer. 

I don't see another good solution. Medical technology increases a lot every year, and the new ones are most expensive. We can't just pay for everything that is technologically possible.

I'd also make rich people pay more for Medicare and or cut their benefits. 

Do we spend too much money trying to extend life or cheat death? Yes. Should we just let people die? I am not sure I am there just yet.

I agree there should be a Medicaid threshold, net worth or liquid assets above a threshold, you don't need it, or, as you state, pay more for it. I am ok with that. This IMO makes some level of sense, far more sense than your idea of taking out the elderly. 

[red viking]

3 minutes ago, Viratas said:

Do we spend too much money trying to extend life or cheat death? Yes. Should we just let people die? I am not sure I am there just yet.

I agree there should be a Medicaid threshold, net worth or liquid assets above a threshold, you don't need it, or, as you state, pay more for it. I am ok with that. This IMO makes some level of sense, far more sense than your idea of taking out the elderly. 

We can't continue to pay for everything that is technologically possible. It will break us, already is. So, we have to make cuts somewhere and this is best. I'm not saying cut them off 100%. Just don't always provide ultra advanced treatment for extremely old people. 

Edited 19 hours ago by red viking

[Viratas]

3 minutes ago, red viking said:

...anyway...obamacare isn't why our life expectancy sucks and fat Americans are so unhealthy. It's because our food sucks, we allow pollutants everywhere including air, water and food and all the fat lazy people here drive everywhere instead of biking, walking etc

And yet you guys hate the guy preaching this, so confusing. Also twice in a day, I agree. 

We are fat, lazy F^*%s no doubt. Our food is awful for us, and somehow we are living longer than we should (no idea why). I spent 70% of my life working out between 2 and 6 hours a day. Now I am fat, and just don't care (I do, just started working out again, but for a time, I just wanted to relax. Now I am stressed about being a barrel ass. We were also forced to inject poison into our bodies by our government. 

[WrestlingRasta]

6 minutes ago, red viking said:

...anyway...obamacare isn't why our life expectancy sucks and fat Americans are so unhealthy. It's because our food sucks, we allow pollutants everywhere including air, water and food and all the fat lazy people here drive everywhere instead of biking, walking etc

Don’t forget being angry, hateful, and negative all the time.  It is a factor in poor health and early death.  Mental health factors into physical health.  

[red viking]

3 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Don’t forget being angry, hateful, and negative all the time.  It is a factor in poor health and early death.  Mental health factors into physical health.  

I exercise every day (doing pretty advanced power yoga workouts), eat healthy, limit my alcohol intake and have good social connections including my wife and kids. God wants me to fight the wingers and spread the truth. I'm doing its will.

Edited 19 hours ago by red viking

[Caveira]

7 minutes ago, red viking said:

We can't continue to pay for everything that is technologically possible. It will break us, already is. So, we have to make cuts somewhere and this is best. I'm not saying cut them off 100%. Just don't always provide ultra advanced treatment for extremely old people. 

Like pensions for city workers in big blue cities like chicago?

[red viking]

2 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Like pensions for city workers in big blue cities like chicago?

No. I'm talking about medical costs. Nice deflection though. Pensions are easily funded. 

[Caveira]

4 minutes ago, red viking said:

No. I'm talking about medical costs. Nice deflection though. Pensions are easily funded. 

CHICAGO PENSIONS CARRY MORE DEBT THAN 44 STATES

 

by LyLena Estabine 

SEPTEMBER 9, 2025

 

Chicago pensions carry more debt than 44 states

Chicago’s pension systems carry over $53 billion in debt, leaving taxpayers with rising bills and no reform in sight.

The Second City is climbing the ranks – but not in a good way.

Chicago’s pension systems remain among the most poorly fundedgovernment retirement systems in the country. In 2023, the unfunded debt from just the city’s municipal, laborers, police, fire and teachers’ pension funds surpassed the pension debt of 43 states. In 2024, it surpasses the pension debt of 44 states.

Data from the Equable Institute shows the Chicago teachers’ pension and the four city-sponsored pension systems – fire, police, municipal and laborers – carry about $53 billion in unfunded liabilities. The total unfunded debt increased from $51 billion reported at the end of 2023, and earned it a higher place for unfunded pension debt when compared to states nationwide.

More than 80% of the city’s property tax levy goes to pensions, and nearly all of the increase in property taxes since 2014 has been consumed by the cost of keeping up with rising benefits.

Chicago businesses already pay the highest property taxes of any major city. Residents contribute some of the highest residential rates nationwide.

Despite a massive increase in the taxpayer burden, the pension debt continues to rise. Only a constitutional amendment allowing meaningful pension reform could change the city’s trajectory.

[red viking]

Just now, Caveira said:

 

CHICAGO PENSIONS CARRY MORE DEBT THAN 44 STATES

 

by LyLena Estabine 

SEPTEMBER 9, 2025

 

Chicago pensions carry more debt than 44 states

Chicago’s pension systems carry over $53 billion in debt, leaving taxpayers with rising bills and no reform in sight.

The Second City is climbing the ranks – but not in a good way.

Chicago’s pension systems remain among the most poorly fundedgovernment retirement systems in the country. In 2023, the unfunded debt from just the city’s municipal, laborers, police, fire and teachers’ pension funds surpassed the pension debt of 43 states. In 2024, it surpasses the pension debt of 44 states.

Data from the Equable Institute shows the Chicago teachers’ pension and the four city-sponsored pension systems – fire, police, municipal and laborers – carry about $53 billion in unfunded liabilities. The total unfunded debt increased from $51 billion reported at the end of 2023, and earned it a higher place for unfunded pension debt when compared to states nationwide.

More than 80% of the city’s property tax levy goes to pensions, and nearly all of the increase in property taxes since 2014 has been consumed by the cost of keeping up with rising benefits.

Chicago businesses already pay the highest property taxes of any major city. Residents contribute some of the highest residential rates nationwide.

Despite a massive increase in the taxpayer burden, the pension debt continues to rise. Only a constitutional amendment allowing meaningful pension reform could change the city’s trajectory.

Easy solution. 1) Fund the pensions for those that were promised them. 2) you dont have to offer pensions for new workers.  Its not complicated. 

[Viratas]

27 minutes ago, red viking said:

We can't continue to pay for everything that is technologically possible. It will break us, already is. So, we have to make cuts somewhere and this is best. I'm not saying cut them off 100%. Just don't always provide ultra advanced treatment for extremely old people. 

I could agree to that if you used the same logic for paying for non-citizens

[JimmySpeaks]

22 minutes ago, red viking said:

No. I'm talking about medical costs. Nice deflection though. Pensions are easily funded. 

And easily raided by politicians right???!  Bahahahahahhaha

[WrestlingRasta]

41 minutes ago, red viking said:

I exercise every day (doing pretty advanced power yoga workouts), eat healthy, limit my alcohol intake and have good social connections including my wife and kids. God wants me to fight the wingers and spread the truth. I'm doing its will.

You obviously took my comment very personally, and felt the need to explain your life.       Interesting  

 

[Scouts Honor]

he doesn't understand why the money isn't there

 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

13 hours ago, red viking said:

To limit what we fund for geriatric care. We don't need to spend millions just to let an elderly person live one additional year. Imo most of the waste is in pushing very hard to make old people live just a little longer. 

I don't see another good solution. Medical technology increases a lot every year, and the new ones are most expensive. We can't just pay for everything that is technologically possible.

I'd also make rich people pay more for Medicare and or cut their benefits. 

Until it's your mother or your grandmother. Then another year is priceless to you.