Trump Sending TX Nat Guard to Chicago?

[Caveira]

Maybe Chicago doesn’t need 150 extra cops 

 

[wrestlingguy]

20 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

I think a distinction that is being missed here is the difference between cooperating with, and being thankful for (as it pertains in the other thread) for law enforcement engagement, vs military troops engaging in law enforcement in American cities.  Military policing Americans has always been a no no.  It’s a big reason for the revolution that started our nation.  And it is not what is being agreed to here.  DC, while appreciating and encouraging the assistance of law enforcement agencies, is also suing the administration over the use of military troops policing our citizens.  Can’t undo what has been done, so I’m assuming they are suing for the sake of it not becoming the norm, which it seems to be creeping toward. 

I genuinely don't understand why using NG to supplement the police shortage is an issue. They aren't invading people's privacy like big brother. Would it be more acceptable if they were military police because they have the training?

[JimmySpeaks]

2 minutes ago, wrestlingguy said:

I genuinely don't understand why using NG to supplement the police shortage is an issue. They aren't invading people's privacy like big brother. Would it be more acceptable if they were military police because they have the training?

Basically the NG is allowing the police to do their jobs while being a pretty effective deterrent.  Hasn’t t really been engagement because there hasn’t needed to be.  

[red viking]

6 minutes ago, wrestlingguy said:

I genuinely don't understand why using NG to supplement the police shortage is an issue. They aren't invading people's privacy like big brother. Would it be more acceptable if they were military police because they have the training?

It's just a bad use of NG. They arent trained for LE at all. They can't do much (eg arrest anybody) and it's not practicable to keep them there forever. We're pulling them away from their jobs and families for negligible long term benefit. 

Edited 5 hours ago by red viking

[mspart]

It worked in DC.   It should be worth a try at some other crime riddled locale.   Chicago could really experience a renaissance with 1 killing a week and less than 10 shots fired a week.    Alas, that is so far out of scope with current practices that it seems like it is time to try something different. 

mspart

[wrestlingguy]

I think the positive outcome from having the NG in DC was showing the mayor that more police are needed.

Obviously having the NG anywhere for an extended period of time is problematic. Why do we call in the NG for riots but not to assist in crime prevention on a temporary basis?

[mspart]

2 minutes ago, red viking said:

It's just a bad use of NG. They arent trained for LE at all. They can't do much (eg arrest anybody) and it's not practicable to keep them there forever. We're pulling them away from their jobs and families for negligible long term benefit. 

But the short term benefit is there for all to see in DC.   I mentioned this in another post.   If the locality does not change tactics, then the NG effort will be short term only and not long term.   But the short term benefit will clearly show the people of the city what the Ds offer them.   And it is only more death and carnage and poverty. 

Long term cities should increase the police force so there can be effective policing.   But the courts and prosecutors need to be on board as well.   

mspart 

[red viking]

Just now, mspart said:

It worked in DC.   It should be worth a try at some other crime riddled locale.   Chicago could really experience a renaissance with 1 killing a week and less than 10 shots fired a week.    Alas, that is so far out of scope with current practices that it seems like it is time to try something different. 

mspart

Crime will almost  always drop  at least a little if u flood an area w LE. It wasn't just NG. It was FBI, DEA, ICE, etc. The question is how much, was it worth it to FEDERAL taxpayers and what happens after they leave. It's pretty dumb to conclude right now that it "worked." 

The big waste here is NG. 

[WrestlingRasta]

32 minutes ago, wrestlingguy said:

I genuinely don't understand why using NG to supplement the police shortage is an issue. They aren't invading people's privacy like big brother. Would it be more acceptable if they were military police because they have the training?

It’s not so much that what the NG guard was actually doing in the particular instance that concerns me, it’s the opening of the door of putting the military on our streets for law enforcement activities, and the slippery slope that follows walking through that door.  It’s the prospect of slowly normalizing the use of military troops to police citizens that concerns me. 
 

As for your question about military police my answer would be no. 1) Because it’s military troops policing citizens on American city streets, and 2) because MP’s are not trained in policing citizens/residents on American streets, they are trained in policing military troops on military bases, etc. 

[Caveira]

42 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

It’s not so much that what the NG guard was actually doing in the particular instance that concerns me, it’s the opening of the door of putting the military on our streets for law enforcement activities, and the slippery slope that follows walking through that door.  It’s the prospect of slowly normalizing the use of military troops to police citizens that concerns me. 
 

As for your question about military police my answer would be no. 1) Because it’s military troops policing citizens on American city streets, and 2) because MP’s are not trained in policing citizens/residents on American streets, they are trained in policing military troops on military bases, etc. 

maybe d politicians in d cities will start policing their cities themselves.   It’s not like they’re walking into Brady bunch cities where there aren’t issues.  

[mspart]

1 hour ago, red viking said:

Crime will almost  always drop  at least a little if u flood an area w LE. It wasn't just NG. It was FBI, DEA, ICE, etc. The question is how much, was it worth it to FEDERAL taxpayers and what happens after they leave. It's pretty dumb to conclude right now that it "worked." 

The big waste here is NG. 

It's pretty dumb to say it didn't work when all the evidence is pointing to drastically reduced numbers in violent crime.   So short term there was great news.   Long term is up to DC.   If crime goes back to where it was 2 things should happen, voters should find people who will keep crime down and current DC admin needs to fix the problem now if they want to keep their jobs.   That's pretty much the gist of it.   Ds have always said that this can't be done, no way can it be done and we don't need extra folks here proving us wrong.   That is the real issue.   With crime in Chicago completely out of control, the mayor and Gov says all is good, we are handling it when the evidence is to the contrary.  They don't want to be forced to confront the problem because that is what they want obviously.   Otherwise they would be begging for the help.  

Short term the goal is to show that increased presence of LE reduces crime.   Long term is to have the city adjust to maintain that.   It's very simple, so simple that you simply cannot grasp it.  Or you simply won't grasp it intentionally.   It is sad when someone gives up like you have.  

mspart

 

[red viking]

19 minutes ago, mspart said:

It's pretty dumb to say it didn't work when all the evidence is pointing to drastically reduced numbers in violent crime.   So short term there was great news.   Long term is up to DC.   If crime goes back to where it was 2 things should happen, voters should find people who will keep crime down and current DC admin needs to fix the problem now if they want to keep their jobs.   That's pretty much the gist of it.   Ds have always said that this can't be done, no way can it be done and we don't need extra folks here proving us wrong.   That is the real issue.   With crime in Chicago completely out of control, the mayor and Gov says all is good, we are handling it when the evidence is to the contrary.  They don't want to be forced to confront the problem because that is what they want obviously.   Otherwise they would be begging for the help.  

Short term the goal is to show that increased presence of LE reduces crime.   Long term is to have the city adjust to maintain that.   It's very simple, so simple that you simply cannot grasp it.  Or you simply won't grasp it intentionally.   It is sad when someone gives up like you have.  

mspart

 

Dumb statement. Like saying that if democrats flooded a red city with teachers temporarily and test scores went up, then govt would be pressured to hire more teachers. Liberals aren't dumb enough to fall for that bs. 

[Caveira]

Just now, red viking said:

Dumb statement. Like saying that if democrats flooded a red city with teachers temporarily and test scores went up, then govt would be pressured to hire more teachers. Liberals aren't dumb enough to fall for that bs. 

But that wouldn’t happen.   And if it did would it prove who needs to be better at their job?

multiple choice 

a) parents 

b) teachers union 

c) teachers 

d) bozo the clown 

[red viking]

16 minutes ago, Caveira said:

But that wouldn’t happen.   And if it did would it prove who needs to be better at their job?

multiple choice 

a) parents 

b) teachers union 

c) teachers 

d) bozo the clown 

It proves nothing. Everybody knows thar more resources allocated toward something always improves performance, all other factors remaining the same.