US just dropped Bombs on 3 nuclear sites. Fordow, Natanz and Esfahan.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

7 hours ago, JimmySpeaks said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-assesses-the-damage-and-lashes-out-after-israeli-and-u-s-strikes-damage-its-nuclear-sites/ar-AA1HMlnz?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=74727f66e86d41baafb0a31c4c564384&ei=44
 

even Iran acknowledges that their nuclear sites were severely damaged.  Keep buying into the propaganda that they were only set back 3 months.  Snow plow driver doubles asa sheeple 

• I was referencing a report by the Pentagon
• You were referencing what Iran said

I'm going to have to trust the report from the Pentagon before I trust what Iran says.

(You do understand that, right?)

[GreatWhiteNorth]

2 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

maybe someday we can kick them out... 

[Offthemat]

36 minutes ago, Undefeated said:

The supporters of this regime have something the others didn’t: deep religious fanaticism and a twisted interpretation of Islam where Khamenei is seen as being above even God.

And there’s no guarantee that taking Khamenei out would solve that.  They just might replace him with someone just as bad, or worse.  You guys will have to do at least the first part, on your own.  
 

I don’t like their kids living here, and personally wouldn’t allow it, but many here would be against punishing someone for whom their parents are. 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

2 hours ago, Caveira said:

I think @Undefeated comes in peace boss.   He has a perspective we cannot comprehend.    I think it’s important to listen to it.  People may not agree bur I think we should listen. 

Too bad you have to read a post from an Iranian before you finally figured it out and came to this, surprisingly insightful, conclusion.

It is important to listen to others. Even if people may not agree. And... even if those others aren't from a foreign country.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

3 hours ago, Undefeated said:

About the 1979 hostage crisis — I assume you’re referring to the U.S. Embassy incident. You probably know that many of the sanctions the U.S. has imposed on Iran are because of that event. And you likely also know that these sanctions mainly hurt ordinary Iranian people — people who not only had no role in the hostage-taking, but many of whom were actually opposed to those extremists.

I have a question for those who still support sanctions on Iranian civilians because of that incident. Do you know this person:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad-Reza_Khatami
He was one of the people involved in taking Americans hostage. He has two daughters — Narges and Leila. Narges currently lives in the UK, and Leila lives in the U.S.!

And how about this person — do you know her?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoumeh_Ebtekar
She was also one of the hostage-takers.
This photo shows her during that time:
https://rooziato.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/12788-768x432.jpg
And this next one shows her years later, still stepping on the American flag:
https://rooziato.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/unnamed-2.jpg
Now take a look at this picture — it’s her son. Can you guess where he lives? The United States.
https://rooziato.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/no_title__930x510_q85_box-310784390_crop_subsampling-2_upscale-2-768x421.jpg

You probably haven’t heard of this person either:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habibollah_Bitaraf
He was also involved in taking Americans hostage — one of the more dangerous ones. Now click the link below — it’s his daughter’s page at the Virginia Tech Advanced Research Institute:
https://ari.vt.edu/ari_people/hamideh_bitaraf.html

If I wanted to list all the hostage-takers and their children who now live in the U.S., it would be a very long list. So now I have a simple question:

Why is it that the families and children of the hostage-takers are allowed to live in America — but I, who oppose those hostage-takers, am sanctioned in Iran?

Quite simply, because they've made deals.

Just like in Iran, wealth and power go hand in hand here. The current Trump administration values those with wealth and cares little about those without wealth. Currently, controversially, pushing tax cuts for the very wealthy and tax increases for those with middle to lower income. It is a trend that should be reversed, but we are seeing no evidence of that.

Why do we tolerate such unfairness in the US? Ignorance. Pure voter ignorance.

I would not want to accuse Iran of the same thing - but I would be inclined to think a similar thing is true.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

1 hour ago, Undefeated said:

Even the people that the Islamic Republic presents as “nuclear scientists” — and some of whom were killed by Israel in this conflict — are, in reality, not nuclear scientists at all. Most of them don’t do any scientific or research-based work. They’re involved in operational or logistical tasks related to Iran’s nuclear programs or affiliated projects.

Just because someone has a degree in physics and works with the Islamic Republic doesn’t make them a nuclear scientist. Many of these individuals haven’t published a single scientific paper in any reputable physics journal or related field.

The Islamic Republic calls a bunch of loyal operatives “nuclear scientists” simply to gain public sympathy and rally people behind them.

From my perspective - politicians, their lies, and their intended manipulation of the people they are supposed to be helping seems to be universal. Given a position of power and authority, politicians tend to line their pockets first (if not only.)

[GreatWhiteNorth]

1 hour ago, Offthemat said:

@Undefeated A common attitude here is that if it gets uncomfortable enough, the Iranians will change their leadership, one way or another.  We know from past experience that if we do it for you, it will create chaos and resentment for us.  Even when your economy is down your leadership spends exorbitantly on terrorism and nuclear weapons .  That’s what we want to stop.  So our gov’t tries to keep them pinched down as much as possible.  The average American doesn’t hold ill will for the average Iranian, or average Russian, or average Chinaman, but until we figure out how to get by without governments, we’re the ones stuck holding the bag. 

Quiet regime change hasn't ever worked for us any better than open regime change. Always backfiring.

This may be something you call a "common attitude" but only for those common folks that haven't learned from history.

(And, I do find your comment that "even when your economy is down your leadership spends exorbitantly" more than a little humorous. As we find ourselves in the midst of the US passing a bill that will put us another $4 trillion in debt. While increasing our military spending.)

[GreatWhiteNorth]

1 hour ago, Undefeated said:

That’s true. But even the Germans didn’t overthrow Hitler themselves—just like the Russians didn’t overthrow Stalin. I had a German friend who once told me that his father was still a supporter of Hitler years after he was gone. Probably only people who’ve lived under regimes like Nazi Germany or Stalin’s USSR can truly understand that the chances of overthrowing the Islamic Republic without outside help are close to zero.

I’ve read a lot of books about life under dictatorships, but I can honestly say that none of those regimes were as dangerous as the Islamic Republic. The reason? The supporters of this regime have something the others didn’t: deep religious fanaticism and a twisted interpretation of Islam where Khamenei is seen as being above even God.

And then there’s the fact that the children and families of top Islamic Republic officials are living in the U.S.—which totally contradicts America’s supposed goal of pressuring the regime. For example, Gholam-Ali Haddad-Adel, one of Khamenei’s top advisors, a relative of his, and one of the most dangerous figures in the regime—his daughter lives in New York!

Hmmm... "Deep fanaticism", "twisted interpretation", and a leader "being above even God."

The current US administration seems to have all of these things... in spades. And it can be bought cheap.

You are familiar with Trump's "gold card" program?

Wealthy foreigners consider Trump’s Gold Card visa as immigration fast lane : NPR

For a fistful of millions, anyone can simply buy citizenship to the US. Terrorists are notoriously well funded... why would they bother sneaking through a border when they could walk right in the front door with Trump's approval.

[Undefeated]

1 hour ago, Offthemat said:

And there’s no guarantee that taking Khamenei out would solve that.  They just might replace him with someone just as bad, or worse.  You guys will have to do at least the first part, on your own.  
 

I don’t like their kids living here, and personally wouldn’t allow it, but many here would be against punishing someone for whom their parents are. 

But why is it that people who are open-minded enough to separate the children of the Islamic Republic’s rulers from their parents don’t actually separate ordinary Iranian people from the rulers of Iran? When the U.S. imposes sanctions on Iran, it acts as if Iran’s government is like that of Switzerland or Finland—governments that might change their stance for the sake of their people's well-being! The leaders of the Islamic Republic couldn’t care less that someone like me, a programmer living in Iran, can’t access many of the services I need for my work because of these sanctions.

When I freelance for a company outside Iran, I can’t receive my payment directly due to sanctions. I have to use middleman companies that take a big chunk of my earnings as fees—because Iranians can’t use PayPal, Visa cards, or other banking services. On top of that, I can’t download many software tools and apps because their servers have blacklisted Iran. And that’s just one of dozens of restrictions these sanctions impose on us—yet they don’t hurt the regime’s top officials at all.

Why would some Ayatollahs, who doesn’t even know how to create a Gmail account, care that I, a developer, can’t connect to Gradle servers to compile my software and am forced to either use a VPN (which kills my internet speed) or switch to Maven instead? These issues don’t matter to the Americans who support sanctions against Iran—but when it comes to the families and children of the Islamic Republic’s rulers, suddenly they all become human rights advocates!

[Undefeated]

1 hour ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Hmmm... "Deep fanaticism", "twisted interpretation", and a leader "being above even God."

The current US administration seems to have all of these things... in spades. And it can be bought cheap.

You are familiar with Trump's "gold card" program?

Wealthy foreigners consider Trump’s Gold Card visa as immigration fast lane : NPR

For a fistful of millions, anyone can simply buy citizenship to the US. Terrorists are notoriously well funded... why would they bother sneaking through a border when they could walk right in the front door with Trump's approval.

Well, this is exactly a sign of the U.S. government's hypocrisy. I didn’t know about the Gold Card program you mentioned. But yes, it opens the door for terrorists—at least their children—to immigrate to the U.S. And when the children of terrorists come to America, they don’t just bring money with them—they bring their dangerous ideologies too.

[Offthemat]

2 hours ago, Undefeated said:

Well, this is exactly a sign of the U.S. government's hypocrisy. I didn’t know about the Gold Card program you mentioned.

Beware taking anything that guy says for any value, this is simply not true.  The visa, which is a near enough match to what is available from many countries, has a vetting process and would not be honored for any terrorist.  However, if a known terrorist offered $5 million to come here, the FBI would be happy to arrange a meeting at the airport, much as your IRGC might greet one of our CIA or military officers. 

[Offthemat]

2 hours ago, Undefeated said:

The leaders of the Islamic Republic couldn’t care less that someone like me, a programmer living in Iran, can’t access many of the services I need for my work because of these sanctions.

Could it be that there’s a similar effect on government or military programmers?

[JimmySpeaks]

4 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

• I was referencing a report by the Pentagon
• You were referencing what Iran said

I'm going to have to trust the report from the Pentagon before I trust what Iran says.

(You do understand that, right?)

Ummm you do understand that the head of the Pentagon said the original report was a low confidence initial report that would continue to be refined.  He called the attacks a huge success so ya I do understand how you’d want to go with what the pentagon said.  

[JimmySpeaks]

5 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Show us a single post. You won't be able to. They don't exist.

But keep on being sloppy. That suits you.

Snow plow driver from Minnesota showed us the post already.  Then ignored it.  Hypocritically sloppy for sure.  

[JimmySpeaks]

6 hours ago, Caveira said:

I think @Undefeated comes in peace boss.   He has a perspective we cannot comprehend.    I think it’s important to listen to it.  People may not agree bur I think we should listen. 

My comment was to the fact he said he couldn’t reply using the quote button because of the internet.  He must have got that fixed somehow.  

[Undefeated]

Just now, Offthemat said:

Could it be that there’s a similar effect on government or military programmers?

No. Because they don’t even work in Iran. Their developers are based in Europe and Canada. And even the ones who are still in Iran and work for military-affiliated institutions have access to supercomputers, ultra-fast internet, and tools that let them bypass these sanctions completely—so restrictions like this don’t affect them at all.

And let me show you yet another example of this bizarre contradiction. Ensieh Khazali was the former Vice President of Iran under Raisi—the man known as “the Butcher” for his brutal role in executing political dissidents. She’s also the daughter of one of the highest-ranking ayatollahs in Iran. Ensieh is one of the figures behind Iran’s internet censorship policies. Because of people like her, Iranians have no direct access to platforms like Instagram, Facebook, Telegram, X (Twitter), or even YouTube. If they want to use them, they have to pay for a VPN.

Now guess what Ensieh’s son does for a living?
He runs a VPN company in Canada!

Here’s her Wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensieh_Khazali

And here’s a picture of her son, who sells VPNs from Canada to Iranians trying to get around the censorship he and his family helped create:
https://techna.news/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/image-2.jpg
https://rooziato.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/image_750x_631b112a452c7.jpg

See what kind of corrupt business they’re running?
And yet people are still willing to give them green cards and say things like “you can’t blame the children for the actions of their parents.”
Seriously? They’re all in this together.
When someone asked Ensieh what her son is doing in Canada, she replied:
“He’s helping export the Islamic Revolution to the West.”

[Undefeated]

31 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

My comment was to the fact he said he couldn’t reply using the quote button because of the internet.  He must have got that fixed somehow.  

The internet was completely shut down in the early days of the war in Iran by the Islamic Republic. They claimed Israel was using internet towers to control drones. After the ceasefire, they gradually started restoring access. The modem I have just fully connected today—it was barely getting a signal the past few days.

[Offthemat]

4 minutes ago, Undefeated said:

And yet people are still willing to give them green cards and say things like “you can’t blame the children for the actions of their parents.”
Seriously? They’re all in this together.

Sounds unfair to me.  Can you get your hands on a copy of The Declaration of Independence?

[Undefeated]

24 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Sounds unfair to me.  Can you get your hands on a copy of The Declaration of Independence?

There are plenty of declarations like that in the world. What I know is this: they’re bringing their corruption and cruelty with them to the West. A lot of people in Iran hold deep grudges against these families. It’s possible that by the time we gain the operational power to act against these traitors, the current rulers of Iran will already be dead. When that day comes, we’ll go after their children. And if their children are gone too, we’ll go after their grandchildren. I hope, when that day comes, your children or grandchildren aren’t standing beside them. You have the chance to prevent that danger now. For the safety of your own kids, don’t let the children of regime agents and Islamic Republic loyalists into your country.

[Offthemat]

32 minutes ago, Undefeated said:

For the safety of your own kids, don’t let the children of regime agents and Islamic Republic loyalists into your country.

Sounds like you want to go the way of the French Revolution.  That’s unfortunate. 

[Gene Mills Fan]

1 hour ago, Undefeated said:

There are plenty of declarations like that in the world. What I know is this: they’re bringing their corruption and cruelty with them to the West. A lot of people in Iran hold deep grudges against these families. It’s possible that by the time we gain the operational power to act against these traitors, the current rulers of Iran will already be dead. When that day comes, we’ll go after their children. And if their children are gone too, we’ll go after their grandchildren. I hope, when that day comes, your children or grandchildren aren’t standing beside them. You have the chance to prevent that danger now. For the safety of your own kids, don’t let the children of regime agents and Islamic Republic loyalists into your country.

So from the beginning your govt resources were assisting groups doing harmful military operations in the Arab world(Hamas Houthis) and so imposed punishments. And only oil embargo was in place at time of the hostage crisis not sanctions on ordinary people. Ideology was used to spur on the young to act forcefully. So now sanctions after bad behavior and then there is evaluation to see if the behavior is changing. and there is continued military support from Iran to groups attacking places in the Arab world sympathizing with Israel. We cannot separate our pressures you understand this. Asking would you rather we do nothing?? and let the regime have more control?

The Regime wealth assimilating to the west; I'm sure intelligence is aware of the spread of these people to the west but cannot act until there is evidence of illegal action.  For many years our govt let everyone in. There are now voters who place rights of the smallest percent over rights of the great majority. We can only help with sanctions because world opinion would reverse any other course of action as there is discourse oover the bombing of the uranium deposits. Would you rather sanctions or bombs?  But also realize the financial power of corruption allows them to move in ways that contradict rationality. Please do not stop your publications of these people for all to know about. But we cannot live in fear of this and must be proactive to reduce their powers and abilities.

[Scouts Honor]

13 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Word salad is the best you can do?

so still with the word games...

[Undefeated]

15 hours ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

So from the beginning your govt resources were assisting groups doing harmful military operations in the Arab world(Hamas Houthis) and so imposed punishments. And only oil embargo was in place at time of the hostage crisis not sanctions on ordinary people. Ideology was used to spur on the young to act forcefully. So now sanctions after bad behavior and then there is evaluation to see if the behavior is changing. and there is continued military support from Iran to groups attacking places in the Arab world sympathizing with Israel. We cannot separate our pressures you understand this. Asking would you rather we do nothing?? and let the regime have more control?

The Regime wealth assimilating to the west; I'm sure intelligence is aware of the spread of these people to the west but cannot act until there is evidence of illegal action.  For many years our govt let everyone in. There are now voters who place rights of the smallest percent over rights of the great majority. We can only help with sanctions because world opinion would reverse any other course of action as there is discourse oover the bombing of the uranium deposits. Would you rather sanctions or bombs?  But also realize the financial power of corruption allows them to move in ways that contradict rationality. Please do not stop your publications of these people for all to know about. But we cannot live in fear of this and must be proactive to reduce their powers and abilities.

The issue isn’t about lifting sanctions. In fact, we fully support the harshest sanctions — but against the Islamic Republic itself and its top officials, not these ridiculous sanctions that don’t hurt the regime at all and only target ordinary people. If the sanctions were actually effective, the U.S. wouldn’t even need to talk about bombing right now. Sanctions need to be targeted, not random and indiscriminate.

I’ve said before in previous comments: their children actively collaborate with their regime-connected parents. Western governments are hypocritical. For example, when the Islamic Republic shot down a civilian passenger plane over Tehran and everyone on board died, Trudeau went and lit candles with the Iranian community. But in that same Canada, they gave an award for “Top Entrepreneur” to the son of a regime official who stole billions and fled to Canada with his family — all because he “created jobs” by investing stolen money in Canada. I’m not making this up — you can look up his name yourself: Ardavan Khavari.

What I’m saying is: why is your government handing out green cards to the children of terrorists? Aren’t you trying to put pressure on the regime leaders? If their families were actually in Iran, experiencing the effects of the sanctions firsthand, then the regime would feel the pressure. But when none of them are even living in Iran, what kind of pressure are these sanctions putting on them? Absolutely none.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

On 7/1/2025 at 10:40 AM, Scouts Honor said:

there time is history... get over it.

so we shouldn't talk about the mistakes they made. noted.

btw, have you found a post yet to prove that you are independent? 

 

23 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Word salad is the best you can do?

 

9 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

so still with the word games...

No - no word games.

Your post was incomprehensible. Completely out of touch with any discussion I was engaged in.

Your post was a random jumble of words that didn't apply.

Thus - "word salad." (Which isn't actually a word game - it's a term used to describe this type of thing.)

[GreatWhiteNorth]

18 hours ago, Offthemat said:

Beware taking anything that guy says for any value, this is simply not true.  The visa, which is a near enough match to what is available from many countries, has a vetting process and would not be honored for any terrorist.  However, if a known terrorist offered $5 million to come here, the FBI would be happy to arrange a meeting at the airport, much as your IRGC might greet one of our CIA or military officers. 

That's an awfully cute idea. But it stumbles and falls down the stairs on the detail of "known terrorist"

The US is only aware of a small percentage of actors involved with terrorism. And more are recruited every day.

This "vetting" you post about is utter nonsense. Those that are sent here are unknown and will pass silently.