Vietnam offers 0% tariff/Cambodia Drops to 5%

[scourge165]

4 hours ago, JimmySpeaks said:

It’s common knowledge that the other country pays some of it. And the company some.  And the consumer some. 

Jesus Christ Jimmy...you REALLY think the OTHER Country pays import taxes?

 

That is just...staggeringly stupid. 

 

But, lets operate under that premise. Then we're paying on ALL the Countries putting tariffs on us then, right?

[scourge165]

15 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Hopefully this is actually the goal.  And China follows.  We’ll see

 

Yes...hopefully...for as much as I have disdain for the Man, I don't want to see people losing their homes, their jobs. 

 

I'd GENUINELY rather not see waiting lists for my rental properties while people live in their cars, even with big MAGA stickers. Or people having to go back to work at 70. 

I do not like POTUS, I love this Country and don't want to see it put through hell. 

[wrestlingguy]

10 hours ago, scourge165 said:

 I love this Country and don't want to see it put through hell. 

More than the Hamas sympathizer and one actively rooting for US failure because his wife pays his bills can say.

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, wrestlingguy said:

More than the Hamas sympathizer and one actively rooting for US failure because his wife pays his bills can say.

I think that's a dangerous way to think. 

I've heard... Countless people talk about how America wasn't great anymore and how we're a...hole of fecal matter.
I'd like to believe even people I think are misguided or wrong still love the Country. 

I also haven't seen Hamas sympathizers though, so I wouldn't know how to speak to that. 

[scourge165]

12 hours ago, scourge165 said:

 

Yes...hopefully...for as much as I have disdain for the Man, I don't want to see people losing their homes, their jobs. 

 

I'd GENUINELY rather not see waiting lists for my rental properties while people live in their cars, even with big MAGA stickers. Or people having to go back to work at 70. 

I do not like POTUS, I love this Country and don't want to see it put through hell. 

Odd that @JimmySpeaks took issue with me saying I wanted to see our Country and our POTUS do well irrespective of my feelings about him, and didn't want to see people living out of their cars. 

I think that says a lot. 

[TylerDurden]

22 hours ago, JimmySpeaks said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/taiwan-wont-take-reciprocal-tariffs-against-us-will-remove-trade-barriers-2025-04-06/
 

 

 

Looks like Taiwan is onboard for ZERO TARIFFS AND AMERICAN INVESTMENTS.  

Taiwan is positioned to take over production of various things that are currently produced in China. They were a big beneficiary of the first Trump tariffs.

Taiwan's largest export to the US, semiconductors, was exempted from this edition of Trump's tariffs. 

I say all of this give real world examples of how this plays out for the US. Production may shift away from China, but it won't be coming to the US. The cost of the end products increase for US consumers and turns into permanent inflation. 

A real world example from an industry I'm familiar with: The MSRP on a Trek FX1 bicycle (and entry level fitness/flat-bar road bike) in 2018 was right around $400 USD before the tariffs. Today, that same MSRP is $600 - a 50 percent increase in price. 

If you follow geopolitics, you also know that Taiwan and China aren't exactly best buddies. 

 

[scourge165]

10 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

Taiwan is positioned to take over production of various things that are currently produced in China. They were a big beneficiary of the first Trump tariffs.

Taiwan's largest export to the US, semiconductors, was exempted from this edition of Trump's tariffs. 

I say all of this give real world examples of how this plays out for the US. Production may shift away from China, but it won't be coming to the US. The cost of the end products increase for US consumers and turns into permanent inflation. 

A real world example from an industry I'm familiar with: The MSRP on a Trek FX1 bicycle (and entry level fitness/flat-bar road bike) in 2018 was right around $400 USD before the tariffs. Today, that same MSRP is $600 - a 50 percent increase in price. 

If you follow geopolitics, you also know that Taiwan and China aren't exactly best buddies. 

 

There's no world in which we're making sneakers or socks in the US in particular.

Or even Iphones. We're not going to be selling 4K dollar Iphones. 

They'll take the tariffs and add them to the Iphones I guess. Perhaps the same to Nikes. 

You're not making Jordan's in the Rust Belt. It's jus kinda absurd. 

 

[JimmySpeaks]

1 hour ago, TylerDurden said:

Taiwan is positioned to take over production of various things that are currently produced in China. They were a big beneficiary of the first Trump tariffs.

Taiwan's largest export to the US, semiconductors, was exempted from this edition of Trump's tariffs. 

I say all of this give real world examples of how this plays out for the US. Production may shift away from China, but it won't be coming to the US. The cost of the end products increase for US consumers and turns into permanent inflation. 

A real world example from an industry I'm familiar with: The MSRP on a Trek FX1 bicycle (and entry level fitness/flat-bar road bike) in 2018 was right around $400 USD before the tariffs. Today, that same MSRP is $600 - a 50 percent increase in price. 

If you follow geopolitics, you also know that Taiwan and China aren't exactly best buddies. 

 

Exactly. And Trump knows they’re not best of friends and is leveraging it.  As for bikes I’m not so sure I’m too concerned or care.  

[JimmySpeaks]

1 hour ago, scourge165 said:

Odd that @JimmySpeaks took issue with me saying I wanted to see our Country and our POTUS do well irrespective of my feelings about him, and didn't want to see people living out of their cars. 

I think that says a lot. 

Please elaborate on how I did any of this.  Youll lose the bet big time.  

[TylerDurden]

1 hour ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Exactly. And Trump knows they’re not best of friends and is leveraging it.  As for bikes I’m not so sure I’m too concerned or care.  

You should very much care about inflation, especially the self-inflicted variety.

Bicycles are simply one simple example of countless others. 

There's not really any rational reason to defend these tariffs. They're nonsensical at best and they have the potential to isolate the US and create generational economic challenges. 

Let's assume that you're correct and Trump is levering this particular example (he's not), it still doesn't do anything other than shift some production from one foreign country to another and not back to the US as he so often claims will happen. In fact, it makes it more likely that businesses will offshore production. 

At some point, you can't keep ignoring actual business behaviors to defend bad policy. 

[JimmySpeaks]

9 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

You should very much care about inflation, especially the self-inflicted variety.

Bicycles are simply one simple example of countless others. 

There's not really any rational reason to defend these tariffs. They're nonsensical at best and they have the potential to isolate the US and create generational economic challenges. 

Let's assume that you're correct and Trump is levering this particular example (he's not), it still doesn't do anything other than shift some production from one foreign country to another and not back to the US as he so often claims will happen. In fact, it makes it more likely that businesses will offshore production. 

At some point, you can't keep ignoring actual business behaviors to defend bad policy. 

I’m not ignoring anything.  Anything the US gets from Taiwan that it was getting from China hurts China.  And We just went thru four years of inflation that was the highest it’s been since the 70’s.  We have experience 

Edited Monday at 08:44 PM by JimmySpeaks

[TylerDurden]

7 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

I’m not ignoring anything.  Anything the US gets from Taiwan that it was getting from China hurts China.  And We just went thru four years of inflation that was the highest it’s been since the 70’s.  We have experience 

Ignoring the strawman you're presenting, are we going to act like the 1980s didn't exist? Cool. 

I am curious what end result you're expecting from these tariffs and why you're defending them.

If you say that you aren't ignoring business behavior, then you clearly aren't banking on manufacturing jobs returning because you understand that isn't coming back based on said behavior.

So what is it that you think these tariffs will accomplish? 
 

[mspart]

1 hour ago, TylerDurden said:

There's not really any rational reason to defend these tariffs. They're nonsensical at best and they have the potential to isolate the US and create generational economic challenges. 

 

The only rationale I see it to get other countries to reduce their tariffs and then match.   As countries do that and as we do that, other countries will follow.   The end goal should be 0 tariffs worldwide.   That will not happen but it could be closer.   Hopefully that is the end goal for Trump as well. 

mspart

 

 

 

[Caveira]

20 minutes ago, mspart said:

The only rationale I see it to get other countries to reduce their tariffs and then match.   As countries do that and as we do that, other countries will follow.   The end goal should be 0 tariffs worldwide.   That will not happen but it could be closer.   Hopefully that is the end goal for Trump as well. 

mspart

 

 

 

Read somewhere (not sure if true) the eu is proposing 0:0… true or nah?

[JimmySpeaks]

1 hour ago, TylerDurden said:

Ignoring the strawman you're presenting, are we going to act like the 1980s didn't exist? Cool. 

I am curious what end result you're expecting from these tariffs and why you're defending them.

If you say that you aren't ignoring business behavior, then you clearly aren't banking on manufacturing jobs returning because you understand that isn't coming back based on said behavior.

So what is it that you think these tariffs will accomplish? 
 

Eventually getting to even tariffs for everyone on both sides.  

[JimmySpeaks]

1 hour ago, TylerDurden said:

Ignoring the strawman you're presenting, are we going to act like the 1980s didn't exist? Cool. 

I am curious what end result you're expecting from these tariffs and why you're defending them.

If you say that you aren't ignoring business behavior, then you clearly aren't banking on manufacturing jobs returning because you understand that isn't coming back based on said behavior.

So what is it that you think these tariffs will accomplish? 
 

And what is wrong with strengthening the manufacturing jobs we currently do have?   There’s a reason why the auto unions and some others are supporting the tariffs.   

[JimmySpeaks]

40 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Read somewhere (not sure if true) the eu is proposing 0:0… true or nah?

Elon Musk came out in support of getting to the point where Europe and the US go zero/zero on tariffs.  Separating himself from Trump a bit regarding tariffs.  

[TylerDurden]

1 hour ago, mspart said:

The only rationale I see it to get other countries to reduce their tariffs and then match.   As countries do that and as we do that, other countries will follow.   The end goal should be 0 tariffs worldwide.   That will not happen but it could be closer.   Hopefully that is the end goal for Trump as well. 

mspart

 

1 hour ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Eventually getting to even tariffs for everyone on both sides.  

If this were the goal, Trump could have set the rates equal on his chart and been done with it. 

I'm not trying to be contrarian to every point, but I would like to point out that this conversation wouldn't need to take place if Trump didn't start this in his first term. See: https://www.piie.com/research/piie-charts/2019/us-china-trade-war-tariffs-date-chart This info is China-specific, but it's the same playbook he's now using for other countries.

He created this issue. He decided a trade deficit was the bogeyman or at least it was an emotional issue, albeit spurious, that would appeal to his base. 

We could be having a legitimate dialogue about how to negotiate reduced tariffs on US exports to China that were around 8% before Trump began his trade crusade (China's rate is now 6.5% for non-US countries, per the link) in order to give US companies better market access. Instead, Trump slapped a 20% tax on the US consumer via his first go round of tariffs and more than doubled down this time. 

The short and long term impact is negative on the whole, with the potential to be far worse than slower GDP growth. 

https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/trump-tariffs-trade-war/

Steel research from the first term: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/did-trumps-tariffs-benefit-american-workers-and-national-security/  - TLDL - it was a net negative. 

This is all just so wrongheaded and self-inflicted. 

[JimmySpeaks]

21 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

 

If this were the goal, Trump could have set the rates equal on his chart and been done with it. 

I'm not trying to be contrarian to every point, but I would like to point out that this conversation wouldn't need to take place if Trump didn't start this in his first term. See: https://www.piie.com/research/piie-charts/2019/us-china-trade-war-tariffs-date-chart This info is China-specific, but it's the same playbook he's now using for other countries.

He created this issue. He decided a trade deficit was the bogeyman or at least it was an emotional issue, albeit spurious, that would appeal to his base. 

We could be having a legitimate dialogue about how to negotiate reduced tariffs on US exports to China that were around 8% before Trump began his trade crusade (China's rate is now 6.5% for non-US countries, per the link) in order to give US companies better market access. Instead, Trump slapped a 20% tax on the US consumer via his first go round of tariffs and more than doubled down this time. 

The short and long term impact is negative on the whole, with the potential to be far worse than slower GDP growth. 

https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/trump-tariffs-trade-war/

Steel research from the first term: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/did-trumps-tariffs-benefit-american-workers-and-national-security/  - TLDL - it was a net negative. 

This is all just so wrongheaded and self-inflicted. 

What are your thoughts on globalization?  On which countries will lead the implementation of globalization?  On being self sufficient or not self sufficient when it happens ?  On being able to have a secure food source, energy sources, technology and raw materials sources and safety?  On not having to rely on a China for all our electronics?   

[JimmySpeaks]

8 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I think that's a dangerous way to think. 

I've heard... Countless people talk about how America wasn't great anymore and how we're a...hole of fecal matter.
I'd like to believe even people I think are misguided or wrong still love the Country. 

I also haven't seen Hamas sympathizers though, so I wouldn't know how to speak to that. 

Ummmmmm RV, the guy whom you regularly give  the on fire and brain emojis to is a renowned Hamas lover  and anti semite.  But you knew that because you know everything. 

Edited Tuesday at 01:00 AM by JimmySpeaks

[JimmySpeaks]

4 hours ago, TylerDurden said:

You should very much care about inflation, especially the self-inflicted variety.

Bicycles are simply one simple example of countless others. 

There's not really any rational reason to defend these tariffs. They're nonsensical at best and they have the potential to isolate the US and create generational economic challenges. 

Let's assume that you're correct and Trump is levering this particular example (he's not), it still doesn't do anything other than shift some production from one foreign country to another and not back to the US as he so often claims will happen. In fact, it makes it more likely that businesses will offshore production. 

At some point, you can't keep ignoring actual business behaviors to defend bad policy. 

Bad policy was on day one of being in office Biden signing a record amount of executive orders many against big energy.  This caused a rise in oil prices, gas prices to go up, transportation costs to go up, the cost of everything to go up on store shelves and of course record inflation.  Thats the self inflicted inflation that happened and I worried about.  Ya the strawman I’m ignoring. 

[TylerDurden]

3 hours ago, JimmySpeaks said:

What are your thoughts on globalization?  On which countries will lead the implementation of globalization?  On being self sufficient or not self sufficient when it happens ?  On being able to have a secure food source, energy sources, technology and raw materials sources and safety?  On not having to rely on a China for all our electronics?   

You don't think globalization has happened already? 

 

2 hours ago, JimmySpeaks said:

Bad policy was on day one of being in office Biden signing a record amount of executive orders many against big energy.  This caused a rise in oil prices, gas prices to go up, transportation costs to go up, the cost of everything to go up on store shelves and of course record inflation.  Thats the self inflicted inflation that happened and I worried about.  Ya the strawman I’m ignoring. 

You do realize that crude and natural gas production were at all-time highs under Biden, right? He also issued more onshore drilling permits than Trump did in his first term. 

We did not have "record" inflation. 

I'm not here to defend Biden and there is plenty about administration to be critical about, but that anti-oil narrative isn't it. 

I also don't think you know what a strawman argument is. 

[scourge165]

8 hours ago, TylerDurden said:

Ignoring the strawman you're presenting, are we going to act like the 1980s didn't exist? Cool. 

I am curious what end result you're expecting from these tariffs and why you're defending them.

If you say that you aren't ignoring business behavior, then you clearly aren't banking on manufacturing jobs returning because you understand that isn't coming back based on said behavior.

So what is it that you think these tariffs will accomplish? 
 

Tyler...do you think he has the first clue that inflation under Reagan at one point was over ~20% and unemployment was ~10%?

That isn't a talking point on Twitter and not something Trump has said in Debates! LOL...and to be fair, that it was probably more Nixon/Ford's fault than Reagan's also wouldn't land as he understands Nuance and context about as well as a cocker spaniel understands calculus. 

 

He's just gonna come back with something...you don't understand leverage...nonsense. He is a Trump cultist and no matter how much Trump goes against EVERY ideology held by conservatives from Sowell to Reagan to Dimon(who he wanted to be the Sec of Treasury)...even Musk now. You don't tear down the Global economy because you don't like  trade with ONE patient. 

His ONLY out now is to hopefully get some rate cuts and say, "I got so many trade details, the best trade deals...nobody thought we'd get a trade deal like this," just like he said when he signed the trade deal in place RIGHT NOW with Mexico and Canada.

 

We could have brought back manufacturing to the US...by going after China. You would have had Japan, Europe, Taiwan, all these Nations on OUR side. But we went after everyone...and their Penguins....

[scourge165]

2 hours ago, TylerDurden said:

You don't think globalization has happened already? 

He didn't think AI was already happening and mocked it...until he googled it...

 

2 hours ago, TylerDurden said:

You do realize that crude and natural gas production were at all-time highs under Biden, right? He also issued more onshore drilling permits than Trump did in his first term. 

We did not have "record" inflation. 

I'm not here to defend Biden and there is plenty about administration to be critical about, but that anti-oil narrative isn't it. 

I also don't think you know what a strawman argument is. 

Oh Jesus...really?  "Record inflation?"

It's almost like inflation is a lagging indicator(which is why Reagan wasn't to blame for HIS massive inflation early on...that was due to Nixon freezing wages/prices, instability in the Middle East/OPEC....

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/historical-inflation-rates/

 

I'm also at a loss as to why...when it's so readily available to find crude oil and gas production/extraction by year. Biden set a record each year in office.

 

I tried to explain this already in simple terms, but I owned a company named RIG.
They have the MOST advanced deep water drilling...well, Rigs. They can go down 55,000-60,000 feet when drilling. 

So with ALL these "permits," that Trump is using, surely the most advanced deep sea drilling rigs are back at work, right

They should be regaining all-time highs of 171 dollars instead  of trading under 2.50 right? But they're not. And why is that(I know you know Tyler).

Because when Oil is trading at ~60 dollars a barrel EXPLORATION STOPS. Companies DON'T drill on LAND when it's under 70 a barrel) they don't look for NEW deposits).

Now...not all of us think this is a good thing(OKLO, small Nuclear is much cleaner and a great company).

 

 

It's just so easy to prove him wrong...but when ignorance is willful...not much you can do about it. With so much information available...facts available at the tips of our fingers and we're pupping out people like Jimmy, dumber than ever. 

 

Quote

 

The US is the largest crude oil producer in the world, pumping out nearly 13 million barrels on average every day in 2023, an all-time record, according to new data from the US Energy Information Administration.

That’s an awkward milestone for President Joe Biden, who has arguably done more than any modern president to facilitate America’s transition away from fossil fuels to greener alternatives.

For the last six years, America has outstripped Russia, Saudi Arabia, and other OPEC countries in crude oil production. And it has picked up the pace under Biden, who had approved more permits for oil and gas drilling on public lands by last October than former President Donald Trump had by the same point in his presidency.

 

 

 

[scourge165]

8 hours ago, mspart said:

The only rationale I see it to get other countries to reduce their tariffs and then match.   As countries do that and as we do that, other countries will follow.   The end goal should be 0 tariffs worldwide.   That will not happen but it could be closer.   Hopefully that is the end goal for Trump as well. 

mspart

 

 

 

Ok...but here's the problem...it's NOT about fre trade. 

Free trade DOES put manufacturing in China. An Iphone made in New York is a 6,000 iPhone. one made in China, even with tariffs, it's "only" going to go up ~50%. 

We also have VERY low tariffs.

 

We SHOULD be going after China. They steal IP, they commit corporate espionage, they manipulate currency. China is NOT an ally. 

But after this, Japan and South Korea ARE allies with China. 

 

FAIR trade that's as close to FREE trade as possible...but which way is easier to get there? Put tariffs on China, then tell your allies...if you don't follow suit, we WILL THEN put tariffs on you. 

Hell, threaten to withhold ARGUABLY the most valuable and important piece of technology in the world right now. GPUs. NVDA, AMD, AVGO, INTC, QCOM...namely NVDA, but everyone wants NVDA. And if Baba or Huawei, if TSMC builds chips for THEM...well, that's probably going past fair and free trade, but you could threaten to tariff Taiwan.

 

But the tariffs being charged on us are NOT the problem or Canada and Mexico wouldn't be included. TRUMP is the one who negotiated that trade deal.

 

The problem...Jamie Dimon(who I think is a weasel, but a brilliant one) didn't take the job because he didn't agree with Trump's tariff plan. Trump at least had people like Kelly or...Priebus who'd push back the last time. This group, they're all yes Men.