Let The Stock Market Burn!!!

[Scouts Honor]

13 hours ago, scourge165 said:

You may be right. People are short sighted...and many people are just trying to survive. One thing that baffles me is how you're eliminating the subsidies on on the ACA. The cost of health insurance is going to sky rocket next year. The very thing the ACA was created to curb. But they keep stripping away piece by piece. 

But that's why it shouldn't target those making under 50K a year or should keep the child tax credit. 

 

But we have to change something. The corporate tax rate. Christ, just make it 12% but make it 12% on net revenue. That's a lot more money. Raise taxes on incomes over 400K.

I don't want to see Capital Gains go away as... that's where most of my money comes from, but maybe you make it 5%, 17.5% and 22.5% and if it's part of a CEOs compensation package, it's taxes as income.

 

Cut military spending by 25%

Do these things while you CAN and not when you absolutely HAVE to and things are already crumbling. 

 

Hell, maybe it's easy to say since I know it won't happen, but that's what I'd do. 

 

***The ONE thing I would also chance, the estate tax.

#1-You exempt small farms, BUT...it is taxable if you sell within 5 years. These farmers live their whole lives sitting on...millions or tens of millions of dollars of "net worth," but...they are barely getting by and they've been screwed enough. There are Family farms all around me and since I was a kid, they've tried to figure out how they were going to keep it in the Family. 

-These people feed us. Don't let them go under because of the value of their land.

 

#2-Don't raise the exemptions for anyone else.

Tax liquid assets and then do not reset the capital gains for equities or property. If you Great Grandpa bought land for 150K in 1950 and it's worth 15M now, when you sell that, you have to pay the capital gains.

 

This isn't a "the right are evil" post, this is a KEEP America Great and go back to the playbook that's worked for us in the past when we've accrued his type of debt. 

Also, 86 the tariffs on our allies. A growing GDP gives you a much stronger tax base. 

Imagine getting our Debt back down to 50% of the GDP instead of 130% or whatever it's going to be in 2-3 years. 

Raise the minimum retirement age for those of us under 50 to 65. 

this is what i alluded to in another post

i asked someone if they wanted to be able to retire while their body was still intact.

CUT SPENDING.

We don't need to tax more.

and short sighted? The GOvt has been taking 30% for 30 years. I wonder how big my IRA would be if i had applied only half of that money to it.

[Scouts Honor]

you only care that you get more money

you are short sighted

 

 

i care about the GOVT being solvent.

it's not short sighted to think that less spending and less taxes would be a good thing for the country .

[Caveira]

3 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

why does the govt need 30% of my money? 

after DOGE they really dont.

With sales tax property tax and other random taxes isn’t it closer to 55% 60% of every dollar????? and that numb nut still thinks EVERYONE should pay more taxes.  

[Scouts Honor]

3 hours ago, red viking said:

EVERYBODY needs to pay more in taxes. 

NO

[Scouts Honor]

3 hours ago, red viking said:

More "efficient." Wingers have been saying that for decades now. How "efficient" can it possibly get? 

What specific cuts are you willing to make? Let me guess - Planned Parenthood, DEI and USAID. Between that and "cutting the fact," I suppose you think we'll come close to balanciing the budget? 

if i recall, we showed you some woke wingers saying the same 

but they can't anymore, b/c of sheeple like you 

[Scouts Honor]

• Average Tax Rate: The top 10% of income earners pay an average tax rate of 27.3%. The Tax Foundation reported that in 2022, for U.S. adults earning over $178,611 (representing the top 10%), the average tax rate was 21.1%.
• Share of Total Income Taxes: In 2022, the top 10% accounted for 72.0% of all income taxes paid. This is a disproportionate share compared to their income, underscoring the progressive nature of the US income tax system.
• Compared to Lower-Income Groups: The federal income tax system is designed to be progressive, meaning higher-income Americans pay a larger share of their income in federal taxes. For example, the bottom 50% of taxpayers faced an average income tax rate of 3.7% in 2022. 

[Caveira]

4 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

• Average Tax Rate: The top 10% of income earners pay an average tax rate of 27.3%. The Tax Foundation reported that in 2022, for U.S. adults earning over $178,611 (representing the top 10%), the average tax rate was 21.1%.
• Share of Total Income Taxes: In 2022, the top 10% accounted for 72.0% of all income taxes paid. This is a disproportionate share compared to their income, underscoring the progressive nature of the US income tax system.
• Compared to Lower-Income Groups: The federal income tax system is designed to be progressive, meaning higher-income Americans pay a larger share of their income in federal taxes. For example, the bottom 50% of taxpayers faced an average income tax rate of 3.7% in 2022. 

But I thought we are transferring all the $ from the poor to the rich.   You mean the poor really aren’t paying… and the rich are literally paying nearly all of the bill?

Edited June 10 by Caveira

[Scouts Honor]

oops

[scourge165]

5 hours ago, Caveira said:

Why do you change the metric to fit your argument.  
 

in the trump tax bill the wealthy pay 2% and the poor 4% right?  In that situation you use raw dollars…. Saying the tax cuts favor the wealthy even though they are getting a lower aggregate reduction    

in this one.  Where they (corporations) pay waaaaaaaayyyuyuyyyyyyy more dollars …. Corporations…….  You use percentage.  
 

weird.   

What are you babbling about? How am I "changing my metric?"

Also, do you understand what an EFFECTIVE tax rate is?

 

In what situation did I use "raw dollars?" Are you talking about when I said his bill is going to add ~5 TRILLION dollars to the deficit? Would you prefer I said what percentage it'll add to the deficit?

WTF would you like me to do? I'm talking about ONE bill. Do you want me to go corporation by corporation?

And yes, SHOCKINGLY when you make 170 BILLION dollars a quarter, you pay WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more dollars than the guy who makes 120K a year. The fact that you felt you needed to articulate that is amazing.  

This is an incoherent, disjointed, nonsensical post. 

 

5 hours ago, Caveira said:

if the gov had infinity $ today they would waste all of it.  The solution isn’t more taxes it’s more efficient government.    

It's ALMOST like we have been in this situation before, the solution was ABSOLUTELY more taxes and it's not just "more efficient" Government. 

 

Medicare, Social Security, Military. Cut one or shut up and realize you need more tax revenue...

I laid out how literally EVERY financial metric was better in the 1950s, how Corporations paying a 35% to 45% effective tax rate STILL led to 4% GDP growth, the greatest decade for wages, the stock market and cementing the United States as thee World Super Power. 

 

Finally, I never said it was THE solution, but CUTTING taxes for corporations or the wealthy DAMN sure isn't a solution when you're already over 36 TRILLION dollars in debt, 120% of your GDP. 

Did I NOT suggest raising the age for social security as well? 

[Caveira]

3 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

What are you babbling about? How am I "changing my metric?"

Also, do you understand what an EFFECTIVE tax rate is?

 

In what situation did I use "raw dollars?" Are you talking about when I said his bill is going to add ~5 TRILLION dollars to the deficit? Would you prefer I said what percentage it'll add to the deficit?

WTF would you like me to do? I'm talking about ONE bill. Do you want me to go corporation by corporation?

And yes, SHOCKINGLY when you make 170 BILLION dollars a quarter, you pay WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more dollars than the guy who makes 120K a year. The fact that you felt you needed to articulate that is amazing.  

This is an incoherent, disjointed, nonsensical post. 

 

It's ALMOST like we have been in this situation before, the solution was ABSOLUTELY more taxes and it's not just "more efficient" Government. 

 

Medicare, Social Security, Military. Cut one or shut up and realize you need more tax revenue...

I laid out how literally EVERY financial metric was better in the 1950s, how Corporations paying a 35% to 45% effective tax rate STILL led to 4% GDP growth, the greatest decade for wages, the stock market and cementing the United States as thee World Super Power. 

 

Finally, I never said it was THE solution, but CUTTING taxes for corporations or the wealthy DAMN sure isn't a solution when you're already over 36 TRILLION dollars in debt, 120% of your GDP. 

Did I NOT suggest raising the age for social security as well? 

You’re a communist.  You probably made all those suggestions.  

[scourge165]

2 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

this is what i alluded to in another post

i asked someone if they wanted to be able to retire while their body was still intact.

CUT SPENDING.

We don't need to tax more.

and short sighted? The GOvt has been taking 30% for 30 years. I wonder how big my IRA would be if i had applied only half of that money to it.

NO-THEY-HAVE-NOT

They've been taking 9% from Corporations while Corporations continue to generate record profits and they take less from the truly wealthy as they get compensated in stock options which are taxes at 0%, 15% and 20%. 

NOT 30%

I don't know what the point of YOUR RothIRA is. 

And you keep saying "CUT SPENDING," but...nobody wants to cut the TRILLION we spend on the Military. Or the now NEAR trillion we spend on servicing the debt. The 1.4T on Social Security. 

Right off the top, you're at nearly 80% with healthcare, social security, defense and interest payments. And there are people who are still dumb enough to think we can just cut spending.

 

No, we've been here before. There's a VERY clear blueprint. 

 

2 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

NO

The difference between the greatest generation and this generation...

[Caveira]

3 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

NO-THEY-HAVE-NOT

They've been taking 9% from Corporations while Corporations continue to generate record profits and they take less from the truly wealthy as they get compensated in stock options which are taxes at 0%, 15% and 20%. 

NOT 30%

I don't know what the point of YOUR RothIRA is. 

And you keep saying "CUT SPENDING," but...nobody wants to cut the TRILLION we spend on the Military. Or the now NEAR trillion we spend on servicing the debt. The 1.4T on Social Security. 

Right off the top, you're at nearly 80% with healthcare, social security, defense and interest payments. And there are people who are still dumb enough to think we can just cut spending.

 

No, we've been here before. There's a VERY clear blueprint. 

 

The difference between the greatest generation and this generation...

We spend far more on nonsense now than we did in 1950.   

[scourge165]

2 hours ago, Caveira said:

But I thought we are transferring all the $ from the poor to the rich.   You mean the poor really aren’t paying… and the rich are literally paying nearly all of the bill?

A-You realize that proved you wrong several times, right?

B-I don't care about the top 10%

Being part of the top 10% doesn't really require that big of a starting salary. That's like 150k a year. 

And I'll happily pay more.

But no, it's BRILLIANT to stifle the GDP with tariffs, lower your tax revenue...AFTER you lose your final AAA Credit Rating...

Gee...what do you think that's going to do to the 870 BILLION that just goes to service the debt?

 

 

As expected, you addressed NOTHING I said, nothing about how we got out of this deficit the last time...just breezed right past all the stuff you couldn't argue/didn't understand. 

 

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, scourge165 said:

A-You realize that proved you wrong several times, right?

B-I don't care about the top 10%

Being part of the top 10% doesn't really require that big of a starting salary. That's like 150k a year. 

And I'll happily pay more.

But no, it's BRILLIANT to stifle the GDP with tariffs, lower your tax revenue...AFTER you lose your final AAA Credit Rating...

Gee...what do you think that's going to do to the 870 BILLION that just goes to service the debt?

 

 

As expected, you addressed NOTHING I said, nothing about how we got out of this deficit the last time...just breezed right past all the stuff you couldn't argue/didn't understand. 

 

The government has enough tax revenue.  They need to stop spending recklessly.    I pay a lot in taxes.  I am not willing to pay more.  Inept career politicians have no incentive today to be efficient.   They are all corrupt.   
 

if you are cool paying more.  Donate it.  Just write a check to the irs.   

[scourge165]

2 minutes ago, Caveira said:

We spend far more on nonsense now than we did in 1950.

I'm not going to keep doing this with you. 

You're right. And who is spending more?

Every Democrat since Eisenhower cut the deficit
Every Republican since Eisenhower INCREASED the deficit

The EFFECTIVE corporate tax rate in the 1950s was 35-45%... vs 9% and then 6%
GDP grew at ~4% for the decade. 

Wages rose about 3.6% for the top 10%, they rose 3.5% for the bottom 90%

NOW wages are growing at .81% for the poor, .87 for the Middle Class. 

The stock market grew nearly 500% in the 1950s. The STRONGEST decade in HISTORY on the back of RISING Corporate profits despite that super unfair and mean tax rate. 

 

Quote

 

To recap, 1950s;

So a MUCH higher effective tax rate( 3 TIMES what I'm suggesting). 
A MUCH stronger middle class.
Wages growing 4-5X the rate for the poor. 
Equities performed better than ever.
The GDP 40% 

Right now
Effective corporate tax rate of 9% in 2017 to 6% now
A dying middle class. 
Wages lagging WELL behind even the ideal rate of inflation. 
Equities are still doing well...or at least they were doing great 3 of the last 4 years. This year they're...doing fine(though, it's only half over). For the decade we're doing fine. 

 

 

[scourge165]

1 minute ago, Caveira said:

The government has enough tax revenue.  They need to stop spending recklessly.    I pay a lot in taxes.  I am not willing to pay more.  Inept career politicians have no incentive today to be efficient.   They are all corrupt.   
 

if you are cool paying more.  Donate it.  Just write a check to the irs.   

You actually did it. When you repeated that bogus "the top 10% pays 90% of the taxes," line, I literally said;

Quote

The only lazier line than what you and...I'd imagine Jimmy could use is "err...why don't you just give the Government more of your money." 

 

I thought you'd say the dumbest thing possible...and you did not disappoint.  You seriously went to the dumbest possible answer. 

[Scouts Honor]

16 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

NO-THEY-HAVE-NOT

They've been taking 9% from Corporations while Corporations continue to generate record profits and they take less from the truly wealthy as they get compensated in stock options which are taxes at 0%, 15% and 20%. 

NOT 30%

I don't know what the point of YOUR RothIRA is. 

And you keep saying "CUT SPENDING," but...nobody wants to cut the TRILLION we spend on the Military. Or the now NEAR trillion we spend on servicing the debt. The 1.4T on Social Security. 

Right off the top, you're at nearly 80% with healthcare, social security, defense and interest payments. And there are people who are still dumb enough to think we can just cut spending.

 

No, we've been here before. There's a VERY clear blueprint. 

 

The difference between the greatest generation and this generation...

i didn't say anything about corps.

i pay near 30 % every year.

if i had half of the 30 they take from me, my roth would be very nice for sure over 30 years

im sorry you have such a hard time making connections to real life 

[Scouts Honor]

19 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

 

 

The difference between the greatest generation and this generation...

lol.. you think the greatest generation wanted to pay the taxes?

[Scouts Honor]

17 minutes ago, Caveira said:

We spend far more on nonsense now than we did in 1950.   

he doesn't realize that

[Scouts Honor]

15 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

A-You realize that proved you wrong several times, right?

B-I don't care about the top 10%

Being part of the top 10% doesn't really require that big of a starting salary. That's like 150k a year. 

And I'll happily pay more.

But no, it's BRILLIANT to stifle the GDP with tariffs, lower your tax revenue...AFTER you lose your final AAA Credit Rating...

Gee...what do you think that's going to do to the 870 BILLION that just goes to service the debt?

 

 

As expected, you addressed NOTHING I said, nothing about how we got out of this deficit the last time...just breezed right past all the stuff you couldn't argue/didn't understand. 

 

exactly... the middle class is who you want to tax...

[Caveira]

4 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

You actually did it. When you repeated that bogus "the top 10% pays 90% of the taxes," line, I literally said;

 

I thought you'd say the dumbest thing possible...and you did not disappoint.  You seriously went to the dumbest possible answer. 

I don’t think you counted state , local ,property, inheritance, net investment income tax , alternative minimum tax, estate and gift tax, additional Medicare taxes, etc….

[Scouts Honor]

14 minutes ago, Caveira said:

The government has enough tax revenue.  They need to stop spending recklessly.    I pay a lot in taxes.  I am not willing to pay more.  Inept career politicians have no incentive today to be efficient.   They are all corrupt.   
 

if you are cool paying more.  Donate it.  Just write a check to the irs.   

he won't,

he isn't part of the greatest generation

[scourge165]

4 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

exactly... the middle class is who you want to tax...

Yes...corporations are the middle class as are the executives who get their pay via stock options.

 

WTF are you getting it's the Middle Class I want to target?

 

[scourge165]

8 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

lol.. you think the greatest generation wanted to pay the taxes?

Yeah, it's not about WANT you child. I don't think they WANTED to go fight in a War because a pathetic little guy with a Mustache started a war vs...the world. 

 

They did it though. That's the point stupid. And they did at a rate 6,7 TIMES higher. 

 

Who would argue with an EFFECTIVE corporate tax rate of 15% if their tax rate is supposed to be 21%?

Someone who knows those numbers are meaningless. 

 

Cut Fema, Cut the FDA, Cut ICE, cut...all Federal funding for EVERYTHING... keep the defense spending, Medicare, social security and paying the interest. 

 

Tell me with JUST those cuts and Trump's proposed tax cuts...how long until we pay off the debt? So basically EVERYTHING except for Military and the programs we pay into?

[JimmySpeaks]

4 hours ago, scourge165 said:

And AGAIN, I repeat...every single Democrat President has CUT the deficit since Eisenhower(I didn't look beyond Eisenhower...though I'd suspect Truman didn't coming out of the War and then right into another and if FDR did...he only cut his own). 

Every SINGLE Republican has increased the deficit since Eisenhower.

They're not the same. 

The Democrats haven't been great. The Republicans by all measure have been worse.