Kolat vs Bassett

[MPhillips]

  On 2/5/2025 at 7:46 PM, OH-IO said:

Many of us consider to this day Cary Kolat to be the best HS (and top 20 college) wrestler of all time, I too agree with Cary being the top dog ever in HS it was just amazing to see him in HS (although I would say Chris Phillips was a close 2nd

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Marcus Blaze 

"Blaze did not give up an offensive point in his entire high school career (in season). This has never been done in Ohio history. This includes 4 trips to the Ironman, 4 trips to Brecksville, 4 trips to the D1 state tournament, and multiple other tournaments like Maumee Bay Classic, where he beat state placers and a champ or two. Even in his 2 losses at Ironman, he never gave up an offensive point. Both losses were avenged. He Just(last weekend) bumped up 2 weight classes and teched his way through state."

"He has also beaten other all time high school greats in Lilledahl, Forrest, and Knox, multiple times. All while beating multiple NCAA Champions and finalist, as well as senior level world finalists, and his only losses in freestyle this past year, was 2x NCAA Champion Nick Suriano, 2x NCAA Champion and World Champion Vito Arujua, and Japan's superstar, and possibly worlds current lb for lb best, Ono. He beat NCAA Champs Megaludis, Gross, and Garrett. 4x NCAA finalist and World Silver, Fix. Beat both Forrest and NCAA Finalist Matt Ramos in folkstyle."

"His resume, when only considering results while in high school, is completely unprecedented. There is no argument for a better resume, not only in Ohio, but in the history of high school wrestling. You can name guys that have accomplished something exceptional, like Carr making the Olympic team in high school, or Kolat placing 3rd at Midlands in high school, or Kemp or whatever else. But NOBODY has done what Blaze has done repeatedly over and over, in multiple events, over a 2 year period. Even his high school competition, with Lilledahl, Knox, Forrest, Devino, Deluca and Mendoza is really unprecedented. All of those guys have been ranked #1 in the country at some point, and he has beaten them all."

"He is simply Ohio's greatest wrestler, and I would find it extremely difficult to argue against greatest in US History."

*Copied

 

Edited March 12 by MPhillips

[scourge165]

  On 2/15/2025 at 11:06 PM, BAC said:

If you don't like the "why is this Wrestler WORSE" than him argument, then stop saying Phillips is better than them.

If you were just saying "Chris Phillips was great," no one would argue.  He was great!  But you literally said "This is the best HS Wrestler. " You wrote that.

Don't say it if you can't back it up, or if you can't handle someone showing you why you are wrong.

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I think it's backed up by his accomplishments and I don't need to take shots at how old Bo Bassett is or undercut other athletes. I think the dominance that he showed at 171, dominating the top Wrestlers in the Country as a FRESHMEN at 171.

 

And yes, I said it's the best HIGH School Wrestler as I'm not considering College career afterwards or anything else other than JUST his college career. 

I also said I thought Kolat was the BEST College Wrestler. But how may NCAA Champs did he beat in HS? Does he get taken off the list? 

 

 

[scourge165]

  On 3/12/2025 at 5:10 PM, MPhillips said:

Marcus Blaze 

"Blaze did not give up an offensive point in his entire high school career (in season). This has never been done in Ohio history. This includes 4 trips to the Ironman, 4 trips to Brecksville, 4 trips to the D1 state tournament, and multiple other tournaments like Maumee Bay Classic, where he beat state placers and a champ or two. Even in his 2 losses at Ironman, he never gave up an offensive point. Both losses were avenged. He Just(last weekend) bumped up 2 weight classes and teched his way through state."

"He has also beaten other all time high school greats in Lilledahl, Forrest, and Knox, multiple times. All while beating multiple NCAA Champions and finalist, as well as senior level world finalists, and his only losses in freestyle this past year, was 2x NCAA Champion Nick Suriano, 2x NCAA Champion and World Champion Vito Arujua, and Japan's superstar, and possibly worlds current lb for lb best, Ono. He beat NCAA Champs Megaludis, Gross, and Garrett. 4x NCAA finalist and World Silver, Fix. Beat both Forrest and NCAA Finalist Matt Ramos in folkstyle."

"His resume, when only considering results while in high school, is completely unprecedented. There is no argument for a better resume, not only in Ohio, but in the history of high school wrestling. You can name guys that have accomplished something exceptional, like Carr making the Olympic team in high school, or Kolat placing 3rd at Midlands in high school, or Kemp or whatever else. But NOBODY has done what Blaze has done repeatedly over and over, in multiple events, over a 2 year period. Even his high school competition, with Lilledahl, Knox, Forrest, Devino, Deluca and Mendoza is really unprecedented. All of those guys have been ranked #1 in the country at some point, and he has beaten them all."

"He is simply Ohio's greatest wrestler, and I would find it extremely difficult to argue against greatest in US History."

*Copied

 

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That's...just amazing.

It almost feels like this should be separated into 3 eras.

1-The pre Club wrestling era when people would often start wrestling in HS or JHS. Speaking of which...Dan Gable, has he been mentioned?

This guys are going to have a different credentials and it's harder the further away you get from it. But take Lee Kemp. I thought he went out something like 11-8 his first year as he'd just started as a Freshmen after getting cut from the Basketball team. He finished his last two years in Ohio, went undefeated and was one of just 3 or 4 guys to beat the top Russians Jr National team. Team USA went 4-76, Kemp was one of the 4 who won a match. Gable went undefeated. The State certainly matters. I'm sure there were others who were better but those are the guys who's names live in lore and I don't know the others who may have  been great and whose HS careers aren't foot notes in their prestigious careers at College and the Sr level. 

2-The Club era. This seems like it started in the 1980s, goes through roughly 2000
Guys like TJ Hill from Mizzouri were 7X Fargo Champs in 10 trips. That's all 5 times, 4 at the Junior Nationals or Garrett Lowney won 6 or 7 Junior National Titles...IIRC. Cael was in this era. And there were only 10 weights if memory serves. You'd go from off the top of my head, lightest weight(IDR) 113, 121, 132, 143, 154, 167.5, 185, 197 and HWT 

3-Current era, specialization
Guys are getting better coaching, starting earlier, working with College Wrestlers, competing with and beating the top College Studs. 

So when you're making a list...if you're just going to talk about who has beaten more NCAA Champs in HS, you're going to be pretty heavily skewed to...the very recent past. But when I'm looking at it, it's the best relative to their peers...at least in my opinion. The most dominant relative to their competition. I'll take the kid from Ohio who as a Freshmen at 171 Wrestled and beat(handily) the best in the Country, but I won't argue AGAINST Blaze. That's also what i meant by I don't like arguing against others. 

Another name I'd add to this list on top of this would be Logan Storley...but I don't remember his dominance quite as closely. 

I'm also factoring in Freestyle less than Folkstyle(though...juuust slightly). 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 3/6/2025 at 5:40 PM, Truzzcat said:

Semi 1
Blaze over pico (this may have been my final)

semi 2
Guerrero over sorensen

 

Semi 3
Bouzakis over Krivus

 

Semi 4
Moore over Crookham

 

Top side
Blaze over Guerrero

bottom
side Bouzakis over Moore

 

Final Blaze: over Bouzakis

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Are we talking Troy Bouzakis from Pine Bush, NY?

[Truzzcat]

  On 3/14/2025 at 12:48 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Are we talking Troy Bouzakis from Pine Bush, NY?

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Nic 3x super 32 champ 3x florida state champ 2x nat prep. Was just physically so much further along than the guys he was wrestling in high school.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 3/14/2025 at 2:22 PM, Truzzcat said:

Nic 3x super 32 champ 3x florida state champ 2x nat prep. Was just physically so much further along than the guys he was wrestling in high school.

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OK.  Troy's son.  

I don't think either belong in any list of all-timers, but Dad looked like he was on his way before a head scratching loss to a good (not great) opponent in NY.

https://www.recordonline.com/story/news/2001/03/15/bouzakis-still-grappling-with-disappointing/51187969007/

Edited March 14 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[OH-IO]

  On 3/12/2025 at 5:10 PM, MPhillips said:

Marcus Blaze 

"Blaze did not give up an offensive point in his entire high school career (in season). This has never been done in Ohio history. This includes 4 trips to the Ironman, 4 trips to Brecksville, 4 trips to the D1 state tournament, and multiple other tournaments like Maumee Bay Classic, where he beat state placers and a champ or two. Even in his 2 losses at Ironman, he never gave up an offensive point. Both losses were avenged. He Just(last weekend) bumped up 2 weight classes and teched his way through state."

"He has also beaten other all time high school greats in Lilledahl, Forrest, and Knox, multiple times. All while beating multiple NCAA Champions and finalist, as well as senior level world finalists, and his only losses in freestyle this past year, was 2x NCAA Champion Nick Suriano, 2x NCAA Champion and World Champion Vito Arujua, and Japan's superstar, and possibly worlds current lb for lb best, Ono. He beat NCAA Champs Megaludis, Gross, and Garrett. 4x NCAA finalist and World Silver, Fix. Beat both Forrest and NCAA Finalist Matt Ramos in folkstyle."

"His resume, when only considering results while in high school, is completely unprecedented. There is no argument for a better resume, not only in Ohio, but in the history of high school wrestling. You can name guys that have accomplished something exceptional, like Carr making the Olympic team in high school, or Kolat placing 3rd at Midlands in high school, or Kemp or whatever else. But NOBODY has done what Blaze has done repeatedly over and over, in multiple events, over a 2 year period. Even his high school competition, with Lilledahl, Knox, Forrest, Devino, Deluca and Mendoza is really unprecedented. All of those guys have been ranked #1 in the country at some point, and he has beaten them all."

"He is simply Ohio's greatest wrestler, and I would find it extremely difficult to argue against greatest in US History."

*Copied

 

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OK brother lets goooo make the call Blaze is in the greatest of all time list, what weight class do we put him in and who gets taken off (replaced by him)......refer to my list if you'd like....incredible talent, he is in the best of the very best ever, only thing left to do....place him in a weight class, take the lead "MPhillips" you know your stuff too!

 

PRETTY CERTAIN "TUZZCAT" ALREADY HAD BLAZE WINNING MY FANTASY MATCHUP @ 135, "MPHILLIPS" ARE YOU CONFIRMING BLAZE AS THE GREATEST EVER @ 135???

 

"OH-IO"

Edited March 17 by OH-IO

[boathead]

Jesse Jantzen belongs. Never saw a more dominant HS wrestler.

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