Kolat vs Bassett

[OH-IO]

1 hour ago, pokemonster said:

Where's Logan Stieber? Lost one match in high school, his freshman year to a sophomore David Taylor. Also placed third at the US Open and fourth at the WTT as a junior in high school. Can't get much better than that. 

good point brother,  if I had a chance to do this over "my fantasy list", I would have placed Logan in a 3 way tie with Jaw's & Hall, he too was on my list, probably over looked him when I was thinking of Alan Fried & Taylor....but equally as impressive in HS as Jaw's & Hall.....good call!!

[Paul158]

9 hours ago, OH-IO said:

good point brother,  if I had a chance to do this over "my fantasy list", I would have placed Logan in a 3 way tie with Jaw's & Hall, he too was on my list, probably over looked him when I was thinking of Alan Fried & Taylor....but equally as impressive in HS as Jaw's & Hall.....good call!!

You are allowed to come out with a new upgraded (updated) list. Make it a top 20 with honorable mentions. There are just so many great wrestlers to choose from. Just an idea.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

On 2/8/2025 at 2:41 PM, fishbane said:

I really don't know.  The Rudis website has his birthday as January 2007 - https://www.rudis.com/pages/athlete-detail-bo-bassett

No no no no

Go back an his social media.  He has birthday posts in August on multiple years.  I trust him over Rudis.  I think it's late August, though.

It has also been confirmed on another site by someone close to him.

[OH-IO]

"Paul158" encouraged me to do so.... again just for fun and only my 2cents, I am an older wrestler nearing 60 years of age, I still love the sport as much today as i did "Back in the day"

• #1 Kolat
• #2 Phillips & Fried
• #3 Martseller/Joe Williams
• #4 Metcalf/Schlatter 
• #5 Suriano
• #6 Mocco/Steveson
• #7 Taylor
• #8 Mike Johnson/Damion Hahn
• #9 Jaworski/Hall
• #10 Steiber/Pat Smith
• #11 LEE & NOLF (both would be top #3 ....if they won 4, so close)
• #12 Bo Jordan/Ty Moore
• #13 David Carr/Lincoln McIlrary
• #14 Gable (64 matches only in HS sets me aside from top 10)
• #15 Sheldon Thomas/Daton Fix
• #16 HELEN MAROULIS
• #17 Cory Clark/Jay Borschel
• #18 Eric Juergens/Johnny Hendricks
• #19 Sanderson/John Meeks
• #20 Eric Guerrero/ Jeff McGinness/Morgan McIntosh

 Of Course I believe Kyle Snyder is top side IF he would have wrestled all 4 years in Maryland, the Woodbine native would have easily along with LEE and NOLF shook up my top 5, LEE with his knee injury and NOLF with his 6-4 set back to Diehl

 

 

[Paul158]

1 hour ago, OH-IO said:

"Paul158" encouraged me to do so.... again just for fun and only my 2cents, I am an older wrestler nearing 60 years of age, I still love the sport as much today as i did "Back in the day"

• #1 Kolat
• #2 Phillips & Fried
• #3 Martseller/Joe Williams
• #4 Metcalf/Schlatter 
• #5 Suriano
• #6 Mocco/Steveson
• #7 Taylor
• #8 Mike Johnson/Damion Hahn
• #9 Jaworski/Hall
• #10 Steiber/Pat Smith
• #11 LEE & NOLF (both would be top #3 ....if they won 4, so close)
• #12 Bo Jordan/Ty Moore
• #13 David Carr/Lincoln McIlrary
• #14 Gable (64 matches only in HS sets me aside from top 10)
• #15 Sheldon Thomas/Daton Fix
• #16 HELEN MAROULIS
• #17 Cory Clark/Jay Borschel
• #18 Eric Juergens/Johnny Hendricks
• #19 Sanderson/John Meeks
• #20 Eric Guerrero/ Jeff McGinness/Morgan McIntosh

 Of Course I believe Kyle Snyder is top side IF he would have wrestled all 4 years in Maryland, the Woodbine native would have easily along with LEE and NOLF shook up my top 5, LEE with his knee injury and NOLF with his 6-4 set back to Diehl

 

 

Really good job. Thanks. Are you familiar with Amit Elor? In 2022 she won U20, U23 and Senior Worlds in a 3 month period. She was just 18. I think since2019 she has won every world event she has entered including an Olympic Gold. Side note, where did you wrestle in Ohio?

[Ragu]

Best HS guy I’ve ever seen was Yianni. Watched him win a state title 8th grade year over fellow 8th grade 99lb Vito. Never lost a match in NYS again after his 7th grade year. Missed senior year due to injury. No doubt would be a five timer if not for that. Won an NCAA title true frosh year on bum knee

Edited 16 hours ago by Ragu

[BAC]

It's kinda old, but here is a ranking of top 20 high school wresters from 1986-2007.  (It has Kolat #1.)  Since then, there's been several guys whose accomplishments are on par with Kolat.

The main argument for putting Kolat on the top of a "best high school ever" list is that his accomplishments were at a time it was extremely rare for a high schooler to be that good.  The tip of the spear of high school wrestlers is much pointer now than it was then.  There just wasn't the same access to top-level techniques then as there is now, and training year-round is a relatively modern development. Kolat was an bigger outlier than these other guys.  Think Babe Ruth:  he doesn't currently hold the single-season HR record, but he hit 60 HRs in a season when the record was 27 when he started.

To be fair, even in Kolat's time, there were probably other high school guys who were as or nearly as good as he was, but we didn't have the same sort of national-level tournaments or access to college and international tournaments. Think Lincoln McIlravy, who won NCAAs as a true freshman.  (Or earlier:  look at Kolat's own hero, Jimmy Carr, who made the Olympic team at 17.)

Today, though, there's usually a few high schoolers each year who would be legit AA contenders in college, and they are easier to identify.  Bassett, Forrest, Duke and Blaze would probably all be favored to AA right now.  Blaze's accomplishments in particular are at least on a par with Kolat. 

That said, some of the guys being discussed shouldn't even be in the conversation.  I mean... Chris Phillips? Come on, that's like saying Cody Gardner or David Craig, all guys who had a lot of high school hype but never panned out college and don't have any international accomplishments to point to.  There's thousands of guys with multiple state titles and just a handful of high school losses, but that doesn't tell us much.

Personally, the criteria I'd use to determine the best high school wrestlers would be (1) wins over top-tier college or international competition while still in high school, and (2) performance as a freshman in college (as a frame of reference).  That's the only way to separate guys out.  In recent years, that points to guys like Spencer Lee, Mark Hall, Gable Steveson, Kyle Snyder, David Taylor, Yianni D, Logan Stieber, Kyle Dake, and so on.

Edited 16 hours ago by BAC

[Truzzcat]

15 hours ago, pokemonster said:

Where's Logan Stieber? Lost one match in high school, his freshman year to a sophomore David Taylor. Also placed third at the US Open and fourth at the WTT as a junior in high school. Can't get much better than that. 

Pico has to be up there to me. I believe his only loss was to Heil as a freshman at super 32 I think he had graduated when he was a match from making the olympic team and beat Humphry and JO. He did have two series wins over Zain though while still in high school I believe and two junior medals at the toughest weight generally.

[Truzzcat]

If we are just throwing out best wrestlers in totality, I think Blaze and Lilledahl deserve shouts

Blaze 190-2 as of now never given up a takedown in season. OTT 3rd, WTT 2nd, 2x ironman champ, Cadet gold, Junior bronze.

Lilledahl something and 3 2x ironman champ, 4x age level finalist 2x gold 2x silver, 2x super 32 champ in two attempts 

As for just in school season goes Aaron seidel is 193-3 3x state champ the PA wins record is 199 he has sectionals,districs,regionals,states left so he likely sets a new record that may be untouchable. the previous record held by Zack kemerer has stood for 18 years.

[OH-IO]

48 minutes ago, BAC said:

It's kinda old, but here is a ranking of top 20 high school wresters from 1986-2007.  (It has Kolat #1.)  Since then, there's been several guys whose accomplishments are on par with Kolat.

The main argument for putting Kolat on the top of a "best high school ever" list is that his accomplishments were at a time it was extremely rare for a high schooler to be that good.  The tip of the spear of high school wrestlers is much pointer now than it was then.  There just wasn't the same access to top-level techniques then as there is now, and training year-round is a relatively modern development. Kolat was an bigger outlier than these other guys.  Think Babe Ruth:  he doesn't currently hold the single-season HR record, but he hit 60 HRs in a season when the record was 27 when he started.

To be fair, even in Kolat's time, there were probably other high school guys who were as or nearly as good as he was, but we didn't have the same sort of national-level tournaments or access to college and international tournaments. Think Lincoln McIlravy, who won NCAAs as a true freshman.  (Or earlier:  look at Kolat's own hero, Jimmy Carr, who made the Olympic team at 17.)

Today, though, there's usually a few high schoolers each year who would be legit AA contenders in college, and they are easier to identify.  Bassett, Forrest, Duke and Blaze would probably all be favored to AA right now.  Blaze's accomplishments in particular are at least on a par with Kolat. 

That said, some of the guys being discussed shouldn't even be in the conversation.  I mean... Chris Phillips? Come on, that's like saying Cody Gardner or David Craig, all guys who had a lot of high school hype but never panned out college and don't have any international accomplishments to point to.  There's thousands of guys with multiple state titles and just a handful of high school losses, but that doesn't tell us much.

Personally, the criteria I'd use to determine the best high school wrestlers would be (1) wins over top-tier college or international competition while still in high school, and (2) performance as a freshman in college (as a frame of reference).  That's the only way to separate guys out.  In recent years, that points to guys like Spencer Lee, Mark Hall, Gable Steveson, Kyle Snyder, David Taylor, Yianni D, Logan Stieber, Kyle Dake, and so on.

i hear ya loud and clear and you may be more right than I....... obviously kids today have so many more options to get better (youtube comes to mind without even leaving your home), wrestlers today are most likely better than "yester-years", same with baseball, football etc......

i am only talking about HS years so what they did in college is not a factor in my thinking, and as for Chris Phillips, its not just the light weights who deserve the recognition imagine being a 13/14 year old freshmen and wrestling 160/171 in HS in PA, OH, IA, MI, OK etc.... not only that wresting against the absolute best in the country at such weight and not even giving up a takedown and beating everyone, I witnessed OH wrestling from 2000-2015 I watched them all and what I saw was Phillips was the best of the best, most just stayed alive not to get pinned or tech, yes I too believe Chris was as good hs 9th  & 10th grade years as his 11 th & 12th, to me the biggest factor he got tired of opponents not wanting to wrestle him, I believe he also got tied of traveling the country (Cadets) only to destroy everyone, by the time 11th grade came around it seemed very few wanted to even try to wrestle him, its like he had no competition so he stopped the National scene hence his dropping as the top dog at his weight/senior class, was not because of his talents it was because he stopped traveling during the offseasons when their was nothing left to prove...think what you wish, but when a wrestler causes so many to stay completely away from a certain weight class thats speaks loudly....Chris Phillips was and absolute monster as good if not better than anyone ever from 160-171.......I am certain both Steibers, their coaches, Cam and Colin Palmer would agree (Palmer would go head to head with Phillips when Phillips was in Middle school Chris would get the best of the matches, one time Palmer told me he was so excited simply because he finally took chris down) for me the Phillips young man is the best HS wrestler ever 160-171..... no matter the year he peaked he didnt get worse, wrestlers simply stayed away from his weight class!

 

 

[OH-IO]

38 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

If we are just throwing out best wrestlers in totality, I think Blaze and Lilledahl deserve shouts

Blaze 190-2 as of now never given up a takedown in season. OTT 3rd, WTT 2nd, 2x ironman champ, Cadet gold, Junior bronze.

Lilledahl something and 3 2x ironman champ, 4x age level finalist 2x gold 2x silver, 2x super 32 champ in two attempts 

As for just in school season goes Aaron seidel is 193-3 3x state champ the PA wins record is 199 he has sectionals,districs,regionals,states left so he likely sets a new record that may be untouchable. the previous record held by Zack kemerer has stood for 18 years.

"Tuzzcat"..........maybe someone could do a 1950 - 2015 decade than a 2015 - current

 

so many wrestlers with so much talent, your right about those mentioned

[Paul158]

17 minutes ago, OH-IO said:

i hear ya loud and clear and you may be more right than I....... obviously kids today have so many more options to get better (youtube comes to mind without even leaving your home), wrestlers today are most likely better than "yester-years", same with baseball, football etc......

i am only talking about HS years so what they did in college is not a factor in my thinking, and as for Chris Phillips, its not just the light weights who deserve the recognition imagine being a 13/14 year old freshmen and wrestling 160/171 in HS in PA, OH, IA, MI, OK etc.... not only that wresting against the absolute best in the country at such weight and not even giving up a takedown and beating everyone, I witnessed OH wrestling from 2000-2015 I watched them all and what I saw was Phillips was the best of the best, most just stayed alive not to get pinned or tech, yes I too believe Chris was as good hs 9th  & 10th grade years as his 11 th & 12th, to me the biggest factor he got tired of opponents not wanting to wrestle him, I believe he also got tied of traveling the country (Cadets) only to destroy everyone, by the time 11th grade came around it seemed very few wanted to even try to wrestle him, its like he had no competition so he stopped the National scene hence his dropping as the top dog at his weight/senior class, was not because of his talents it was because he stopped traveling during the offseasons when their was nothing left to prove...think what you wish, but when a wrestler causes so many to stay completely away from a certain weight class thats speaks loudly....Chris Phillips was and absolute monster as good if not better than anyone ever from 160-171.......I am certain both Steibers, their coaches, Cam and Colin Palmer would agree (Palmer would go head to head with Phillips when Phillips was in Middle school Chris would get the best of the matches, one time Palmer told me he was so excited simply because he finally took chris down) for me the Phillips young man is the best HS wrestler ever 160-171..... no matter the year he peaked he didnt get worse, wrestlers simply stayed away from his weight class!

 

 

My nephew, a 4- time finalist and 3- time champ in Ohio. Was there and was extremely impressed with him. He had never heard of him or heard of Monroeville before. He just assumed Chris was a senior wrestler (stud) from Pa.. When I spoke with him I told him he was a 9th grader in Ohio. He was a little (really) shocked.

[BAC]

1 hour ago, OH-IO said:

as for Chris Phillips, its not just the light weights who deserve the recognition imagine being a 13/14 year old freshmen and wrestling 160/171 in HS in PA, OH, IA, MI, OK etc.... not only that wresting against the absolute best in the country at such weight and not even giving up a takedown and beating everyone, I witnessed OH wrestling from 2000-2015 I watched them all and what I saw was Phillips was the best of the best

If we were talking about all-time best high school freshmen, I think Phillips would be in the conversation, especially among upperweights.  There aren't too many freshmen who've been top 2 or 3 in the country in a higher weight class.  He might be top 10, even top 5, among high school freshmen upperweights.

That said, I don't think he can be considered among the top high schoolers overall.  He plateaued.  For all his potential as a freshman, most agree he didn't get better.  Even as a freshman, he did lose to Ruth.  Actually he was 0-2 against Ruth, including offseason.  He didn't have any international accomplishments that would show he was better than any other wrestler with a mostly-unbeaten high school career.  He doesn't have any wins over senior level guys or college AAs.  And his college career was over before it started, so there's no frame of reference there, either.  

He'd kick my butt, that's for sure, but personally I wouldn't have him top 100 among high school wrestlers overall.  I mean, at minimum he'd be behind Ruth, who also probably isn't top 100.

Edited 13 hours ago by BAC

[Paul158]

13 minutes ago, BAC said:

If we were talking about all-time best high school freshmen, I think Phillips would be in the conversation, especially among upperweights.  There aren't too many freshmen who've been top 2 or 3 in the country in a higher weight class.  He might be top 20 by that metric, and maybe top 5 or 10 among upperweights.

That said, I don't think he can be considered among the top high schoolers overall.  He plateaued.  For all his potential as a freshman, most agree he didn't get better.  Even as a freshman, he did lose to Ruth.  Actually he was 0-2 against Ruth, including offseason.  He didn't have any international accomplishments that would show he was better than any other wrestler with a mostly-unbeaten high school career.  He doesn't have any wins over senior level guys or college AAs.  And his college career was over before it started, so there's no frame of reference there, either.  

He'd kick my butt, that's for sure, but personally I wouldn't have him top 100 among high school wrestlers overall.  I mean, at minimum he'd be behind Ruth, who also probably isn't top 100.

If ever there was a good reason to go to schools like St.Eds, Blair or any number of schools where he would be pushed every day in practice. Would get to travel to the toughest tournaments all over the country. It would be Phillips. If I was crushing everyone and most wrestlers tried to avoid me, It, would get old really fast. I'm not sure if had anyone good enough in his practice room to really push him his size. None the less he performed really well in spite of it all.

[MPhillips]

23 minutes ago, BAC said:

Even as a freshman, he did lose to Ruth.

Are you sure?  Ruth beat him his sophomore year at Ironman right?

[Paul158]

4 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

Are you sure?  Ruth beat him his sophomore year at Ironman right?

 

4 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

Are you sure?  Ruth beat him his sophomore year at Ironman right?

What grade was Ruth in and what was Ruth ranked when Phillips was sophomore. If Chris was close to Ruth, then I would think he would have had a similar college career. Just a side note. I really, really disliked the tiny mats they used at the Ironman Tournament. I didn't like the wrestlers seating on the edge of the mats. Causing issues when the wrestlers action went to the edge of the mat or off. I know the gym was small and couldn't accommodate bigger mats. But the wrestlers were always going off the mat.

[Paul158]

28 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

 

What grade was Ruth in and what was Ruth ranked when Phillips was sophomore. If Chris was close to Ruth, then I would think he would have had a similar college career. Just a side note. I really, really disliked the tiny mats they used at the Ironman Tournament. I didn't like the wrestlers seating on the edge of the mats. Causing issues when the wrestlers action went to the edge of the mat or off. I know the gym was small and couldn't accommodate bigger mats. But the wrestlers were always going off the mat.

Was Ruth at Blair and a senior. Ranked number 1 at 171. He beat Chris 3 to 2. Chris was a sophomore. Looks like they were evenly matched. Ruth was at the best high school in the country at the time and 2 years ahead of Chris.

[BAC]

Phillips lost to Ruth at Disney Duals (offseason) and again at Ironman.  I may be misremembering but I think the Disney loss was his freshman year (either the summer before or after), and then in the Ironman semis as a sophomore.

Based on those results, people like to analogize him to Ruth's excellent college career, but the reality is Ruth level-jumped once he got to PSU.  He was really raw in high school, never winning a PA state title or even making the finals.  He transferred to Blair as a senior, and reached #1 in his weight, but was a very different (better) wrestler two years later.  If Phillips had level-jumped as Ruth did, he might have been an all-time great, but it just never happened.

I don't mean to sound like I'm down on him.  Still one of the best freshman upperweights ever. Some guys just peak early, and/or face obstacles later in their career that keep them from developing further.  Sort of reminds me of Kenny Courts.  

[OH-IO]

a buddy of mine sent this to me.......I called him and said hey i am on this wrestling forum and I did a phantom Kolat vs Bassett and included a statement about has anyone taken over Kolat as the greatest HS wrestler ever, he set me straight pretty quick......"NO" he said

 

now this cat knows his stuff, i than mentioned I did a Top 10- 30 list of best HS wrestlers ever and I mentioned Chris as my #2, he too thought Chris was not a #2 but definitely top #10, he turned me onto the following video.....check it out Chris was a 2x CADET FS National Champion 2007 & 2008 unscored upon!  listen to what he says he needs to do to be a better wrestler...so humble

 

 

 

 

while I must admit maybe I am off with my #2, without a doubt he is TOP 10........

Edited 11 hours ago by OH-IO

[BAC]

Bear in mind that's Cadets, which is 16 & under. That's kind of my point:  he excelled when he was on the young side of high school.  I don't think he ever competed at the Junior level, and generally stayed away from national level tournaments after his freshman year. He won his Ohio D-III matches, and I think won another Ironman title, but has no signature wins to point to after beating Roddy (a guy who never AA'd). Not sure what happened at NC State / tOSU, but no wins there either.  

I'm not an Ohio guy, but it's interesting to me that the Ohio contingent has Phillips so high, when there are so many other great Ohio high schoolers to pick from.  Dustin Schlatter was a terror and won NCAAs as a true freshman.  Alan Fried was legendary.  Lee Kemp was a late starter but beat Gable when he (Kemp) was only 18.  Stieber and Taylor were legends, winning just about everything, Stieber placed at the US Open, and both were NCAA finalists as RS freshmen. Marcus Blaze is only a junior and might be the best high schooler of the bunch.  Heck, I'd probably have CP Schlatter and the Palmer brothers above Phillips, and maybe Rowlands too.

Still a hammer, though.  I definitely remember what a stir he caused his freshman year. Seemed like a good kid too.  Hope life has worked out OK for him.

Edited 10 hours ago by BAC