The dual we all want to see, but just don't know it yet...

[nhs67]

Greetings All,

Meandering about and trying to figure out how and what and where and it got me thinking... both Oklahoma and Illinois could be sneaky good this year.  Providing the coaching staffs do what is needed to help everyone make that next step (or more) and stay healthy - they both have the potential to have ten national qualifiers (each).

How would this dual shake out?  How do some of the guys who are changing weights perform?

Wrestlestat has it as Illinois 19 - Oklahoma 12 however, at first appearance it appears every match could be a toss-up.

https://www.wrestlestat.com/compare/perma/754/oklahoma-vs-illinois

125 - Lorenzo, OU VS Attasauov, ILL
133 - Belton, OU VS Byrd, ILL
141 - Schwartz, OU VS Pucino, ILL
149 - McDougald, OU VS Webster, ILL
157 - Wiley, OU VS Kraisser, ILL
165 - Picklo, OU VS Scoles, ILL
174 - Sax, OU VS Brawnagel, ILL
184 - Parker, OU VS Ruth, ILL
197 - Bradley, OU VS Brawnagel, ILL
285 - Mora, OU VS Luffman, ILL

If this match were to go 30-0 either way, the result would surprise me, yes however, I could see any one of these twenty guys defeating their counterpart in a tightly pitched match.

"Oh, no.  Webster is a class above McDougald"  Yes.  I agree.  McDougald beat Watters (WVU) last year convincingly.  Ergo, this could be a match.

"Schwartz is way better than Pucino."  I also agree.  The results given show that they are comparable against comparable opponents.  Ergo, a match between them could be tightly pitched, were they to rematch.

What are everyone else's thoughts on this dual?  Every match would be a grind and I am for that.  Especially since I don't see any 1-1 OT type matches here.

Edited October 15 by nhs67

[nhs67]

Just noticed this would be almost half transfers in total in these line-ups...

[Idaho]

I'm interested to see 133.... Belton down a weight is going to be a tough cut. 

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, Idaho said:

I'm interested to see 133.... Belton down a weight is going to be a tough cut. 

He should have a fair amount of length on Byrd.  Byrd has typically owned Ragusin, but the matches have been dogfights, so he knows how to handle length.  Can he handle the length and athleticism, though?

Now, he isn't NC State's Tariq Wilson, but he could pose some problems with superior length and athleticism for everyone at 133lbs, providing the cut doesn't cost him an arm and/or leg.

[Idaho]

47 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

He should have a fair amount of length on Byrd.  Byrd has typically owned Ragusin, but the matches have been dogfights, so he knows how to handle length.  Can he handle the length and athleticism, though?

Now, he isn't NC State's Tariq Wilson, but he could pose some problems with superior length and athleticism for everyone at 133lbs, providing the cut doesn't cost him an arm and/or leg.

Pretty much where I am at.... he hasn't/didn't used length to his advantage at 141, so he will have to learn and add to his strategy, which would be a good one. 

[charmon55]

Funny I have the same opinion on these two specific teams going into this season. I think both teams have a lot of potential but also a lot of question marks. Both teams have guys that didn't compete last year, moved up/down in weight, and/or it's their first year with the team. I'm excited to see Byrd back, I think he is a top 3 caliber wrestler. Also excited for Attasauov and Webster to take the mat. Additionally, I think the Braunagel brothers should definitely be in the All-American discussion for this year. 

As for this dual, I would think that Illinois would be the safer bet considering all the question marks OU has right now. Can Belton, Picklo, and Hill be healthy moving down a weight? Is Mosha fully healthy? Can Wiley and McDougald breakthrough and be consistent? Both of them have impressive wins with head-scratching losses. We also don't know what kind of shape/level Lorenzo and Parker are at since we didn't see them wrestle at all last year. Either way, I'm excited to see these teams in action this year!

[Truzzcat]

2 hours ago, Idaho said:

I'm interested to see 133.... Belton down a weight is going to be a tough cut. 

Belton at 133 is giving serious first period national champion vibes. It will be interesting to see if he comes out guns blazing and the tries to sit on leads or if he manages his gas tank. He got tired a lot at 141 so I just see that only getting worse at 133 but his twitchiness coupled with his length at 133 makes him a real real problem.

[Idaho]

30 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

Belton at 133 is giving serious first period national champion vibes. It will be interesting to see if he comes out guns blazing and the tries to sit on leads or if he manages his gas tank. He got tired a lot at 141 so I just see that only getting worse at 133 but his twitchiness coupled with his length at 133 makes him a real real problem.

Yep... I have a hard time believing he can make that weight, let alone make it and perform at a high level. If he was able to safely do it and maintain an average gas tank, I agree, he could be a problem for people. His double jumped levels last year.  He was a two round wrestler as it was. He didn't horribly tank matches by disintegrating in the 3rd, but you could definitely see the drop off. I hope he does well and gets on the podium. Good kid with a little funk and can be chippy. Looking forward to seeing this. 

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

On 10/15/2024 at 10:43 AM, nhs67 said:

125 - Lorenzo, OU VS Attasauov, ILL
133 - Belton, OU VS Byrd, ILL
141 - Schwartz, OU VS Pucino, ILL
149 - McDougald, OU VS Webster, ILL
157 - Wiley, OU VS Kraisser, ILL
165 - Picklo, OU VS Scoles, ILL
174 - Sax, OU VS Brawnagel, ILL
184 - Parker, OU VS Ruth, ILL
197 - Bradley, OU VS Brawnagel, ILL
285 - Mora, OU VS Luffman, ILL

 

 

 

Thanks for the interesting topic! As the most fair and impartial reporter in wrestling, I can safely say death and destruction await the Sooners in this hypothetical match. Seriously, I don't know enough about the Oklahoma wrestlers to provide any relevant information, but that has never stopped me in the past:

125. Oklahoma shored up with some nice Cal Poly and NDSU transfers. Lorenzo is one of them. He lost to ILLLINOIS' Justin Cardani a couple years ago in the Matmen Open in SV. That tells me he is a very solid D1 wrestler but maybe not spectacular. Ramazan Attasauov is a mystery. He could be very spectacular. 

133. In a recent podcast (not mine, I wish), Lucas Byrd mentioned that of all the wins and losses in his career, the match that sticks out most in his mind is his last NCAA quarterfinals loss to Daton Fix. He wants that match back. It was a coin flip and very controversial. He is extremely motivated, and this may be his last year on the mat. He's left that question open. 

I think NHS makes a great point with his Ragusin comparison for length. Byrd is 3 of 4 against him, and, in my mind, that one loss was a shock. Another comparison that might be helpful is Byrd versus 3x All American Michael McGee. Lucas is 2-0 against his quickness, including a pinfall at the Big Dance and a close win in their All-Star meetup. 

Interesting at least to me is that Byrd is the Wyrd said he most looks forward to a rematch with Ryan Crookham, who he beat in the 2018 Ironman tournament 4-3. 

141. Danny Pucino and Mosha Schwartz have wrestled. That match was brutal. Danny was simply over-powered and pinned. What led to the pin was an injury that forced Pucino to forfeit out of the rest of the tournament and miss a couple weeks of the season. Danny has had the luxury of growing into the weight since then, getting stronger and bigger. Schwartz at the time looked like he was fed one cucumber per week to make weight. I would really like to see them run this one again. 

[nhs67]

3 hours ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

 

 

Thanks for the interesting topic! As the most fair and impartial reporter in wrestling, I can safely say death and destruction await the Sooners in this hypothetical match. Seriously, I don't know enough about the Oklahoma wrestlers to provide any relevant information, but that has never stopped me in the past:

125. Oklahoma shored up with some nice Cal Poly and NDSU transfers. Lorenzo is one of them. He lost to ILLLINOIS' Justin Cardani a couple years ago in the Matmen Open in SV. That tells me he is a very solid D1 wrestler but maybe not spectacular. Ramazan Attasauov is a mystery. He could be very spectacular. 

133. In a recent podcast (not mine, I wish), Lucas Byrd mentioned that of all the wins and losses in his career, the match that sticks out most in his mind is his last NCAA quarterfinals loss to Daton Fix. He wants that match back. It was a coin flip and very controversial. He is extremely motivated, and this may be his last year on the mat. He's left that question open. 

I think NHS makes a great point with his Ragusin comparison for length. Byrd is 3 of 4 against him, and, in my mind, that one loss was a shock. Another comparison that might be helpful is Byrd versus 3x All American Michael McGee. Lucas is 2-0 against his quickness, including a pinfall at the Big Dance and a close win in their All-Star meetup. 

Interesting at least to me is that Byrd is the Wyrd said he most looks forward to a rematch with Ryan Crookham, who he beat in the 2018 Ironman tournament 4-3. 

141. Danny Pucino and Mosha Schwartz have wrestled. That match was brutal. Danny was simply over-powered and pinned. What led to the pin was an injury that forced Pucino to forfeit out of the rest of the tournament and miss a couple weeks of the season. Danny has had the luxury of growing into the weight since then, getting stronger and bigger. Schwartz at the time looked like he was fed one cucumber per week to make weight. I would really like to see them run this one again. 

Where is the rest of this, my man.

[1032004]

14 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Just noticed this would be almost half transfers in total in these line-ups...

That’s 8 for OU by my count.  Only natives being McDougald and Picklo.

But what does wrestlestat know about the heavyweight lineup battle.  They have Mora listed as the starter but only rated #45, and Heindselman (who would be another non-transfer) as the backup at #12, despite finishing R12 last year whereas Mora was 4-4 including a loss to Heindselman.

Edited October 17 by 1032004

[Gus]

21 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

That’s 8 for OU by my count.  Only natives being McDougald and Picklo.

But what does wrestlestat know about the heavyweight lineup battle.  They have Mora listed as the starter but only rated #45, and Heindselman (who would be another non-transfer) as the backup at #12, despite finishing R12 last year whereas Mora was 4-4 including a loss to Heindselman.

John Wiley has always been at OU as well. 

[1032004]

2 minutes ago, Gus said:

John Wiley has always been at OU as well. 

Wrestlestat projects Cal Baptist transfer Schubert as the 157 starter

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

6 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Where is the rest of this, my man.

I don't know much about the rest of the OU lineup. I do know Parker is a quality wrestler, but he's 0-14 against Top 15 guys. That's not a record you want to bring to a match with Edmond Ruth. I've seen Bradley Hill wrestle, and he's pretty obviously a hard-working over-achiever. Down at 197, I believe the Brawlnagel would have speed, technique and conditioning advantages against him. 

[nhs67]

7 hours ago, 1032004 said:

That’s 8 for OU by my count.  Only natives being McDougald and Picklo.

But what does wrestlestat know about the heavyweight lineup battle.  They have Mora listed as the starter but only rated #45, and Heindselman (who would be another non-transfer) as the backup at #12, despite finishing R12 last year whereas Mora was 4-4 including a loss to Heindselman.

 

 

[1032004]

6 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

 

 

Well that explains it lol, odd that he’s even still listed on wrestlestat