Has USA wrestling lost the big-move / late-match come from behind capacity and tool set?

[Folkster]

It seems USA wrestling has no answer for late-match come-backs (always difficult)?  Gable Stevenson could and did.  Our strategy seems to be get the lead and then risk manage the lead (in some cases stop offensive wrestling and find a way to lose.  No Sidakov (one the best) score-late toolset.   It is very hard to score big when behind, but seems most USA wrestlers are lacking tool-set(s) for coming from behind (meaning they picked strategy/tactics prior and lack adaptation if not working.  I see frustration, defeat and have no highly rehearsed move-arsenal for scoring late.   We all know big moves and late theatrics are low probability, but does USA wrestling have specialized drills and practice sessions that allows you to develop and possess late-match strategy for deficits that prepares wrestlers to dictate/fool, set-up up and increase your chance of completing the action successfully.  Or maybe I just like Folkstyle (with moderate-aggressive stall calling) way more than freestyle and that is that.  Thoughts?

 

Edited Saturday at 10:08 AM by Folkster

[peaverok]

I am so so glad someone is saying this. For decades the US has relied on grit and superior conditioning to win matches because our technique is inferior because we don't do freestyle 100% of the time. It looks like we have totally lost that. It looks like our team think they are just as technical and slick as our competition and that still isn't true. It was shameful to watch. Our team gassed at the end in several matches and lost close matches and that just should not happen.

 

Is it because of ego? To many guys who have superior technique in college that come from the Penn State style who don't understand that superior technique in college doesn't mean superior technique on the world stage? I don't know. I do know that there is a problem and the coaching staff needs to be turned over because of it. The team was totally unprepared physically and mentally.

[peaverok]

Just watch the Kennedy Blades semi-final. She was pulling the tricks of stopping to adjust her knee pads, her hair. In the end she was just sitting on her butt and the ref had to tell her to get up. How does a USA wrestler have that poor of conditioning. She almost lost that match at the last minute. She was gassed. That is an embarrassment. 

[BAC]

Dake would like a word about this topic.

[peanut]

The solution is to cheer for Japan. They are firing on all cylinders.

EDIT: Firing on most cylinders.

Edited Saturday at 06:01 PM by peanut

[billyhoyle]

“Everything is fine. They all wrestled great!” 
 

Careful, suggesting that this team underperformed or anything is wrong with the current training/qualifying system is going to piss some people off who are happy with this statue quo. The first step is acknowledging that there is a problem, and that won’t happen, 

Edited Saturday at 06:16 PM by billyhoyle

[1032004]

43 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

“Everything is fine. They all wrestled great!” 
 

Careful, suggesting that this team underperformed or anything is wrong with the current training/qualifying system is going to piss some people off who are happy with this statue quo. The first step is acknowledging that there is a problem, and that won’t happen, 

I don’t think anything is wrong with the qualifying system.  I think the only question of “did we send the best guy” is Taylor and seemed like he had a case of HEW anyway.

With the RTC’s there isn’t really a training “system” for the national team anymore, and I’m not sure that’s a bad thing either as even with this “disappointment” it’s still better than most prior years.

IMO the only guys who didn’t wrestle all that well were Dake and Parris.   Dake came back for bronze and Parris is young.  Brooks was a second away from the finals and Spencer, Snyder and Zain just got beat by better guys IMO.

[Folkster]

1 hour ago, peanut said:

The solution is to cheer for Japan. They are firing on all cylinders.

EDIT: Firing on most cylinders.

Agreed, they definitely have studied their opponents seem to have one of the better game plan(s) (skill-set development) and optimize strategy.

[billyhoyle]

12 minutes ago, Folkster said:

Agreed, they definitely have studied their opponents seem to have one of the better game plan(s) (skill-set development) and optimize strategy.

And also most have an attacking style. 

[peaverok]

Go look at Dake's bronze medal match with about 1:50 to go. He is so gassed he is just standing there. Luckily so was his opponent so they are just staring at each other barely even moving they are so gone. That is only 2/3 of the way through the match! How can our team be in that bad of shape?

[peaverok]

3 hours ago, BAC said:

Dake would like a word about this topic.

One guy winning at the end doesn't buck a trend. Also, look at that bronze medal match with about 1:50 to go. He is so gassed he is just standing there. Luckily so was his opponent so they are just staring at each other barely even moving they are so gone. That is only 2/3 of the way through the match! How can our team be in that bad of shape?

[wrestle87]

Something was off, no doubt, hard to say if it was weight, mindset, or what.  Fire was not present in its usual abundance that’s for sure.  Maybe the whole team got ‘vid, I really don’t know.  But it was bad.  

And to be clear, this is not about results.  Of all US guys I’d say Myles Amine and Seabass came most ready to rumble.  

For me, it’s not about the placements, it’s about the “yeah I’ll just hang in an underhook short offense position and not throw caution to the wind to at least attempt to get a victory.”

Really looked like guys just didn’t care, or they were burnt out, or something.  I don’t know what it was, but I know what it looks like, and feels like, to be burnt out or not fully there for your matches.  

[scourge165]

9 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

Something was off, no doubt, hard to say if it was weight, mindset, or what.  Fire was not present in its usual abundance that’s for sure.  Maybe the whole team got ‘vid, I really don’t know.  But it was bad.  

And to be clear, this is not about results.  Of all US guys I’d say Myles Amine and Seabass came most ready to rumble.  

For me, it’s not about the placements, it’s about the “yeah I’ll just hang in an underhook short offense position and not throw caution to the wind to at least attempt to get a victory.”

Really looked like guys just didn’t care, or they were burnt out, or something.  I don’t know what it was, but I know what it looks like, and feels like, to be burnt out or not fully there for your matches.  

It's the Olympics and...I don't know, you get tight. 

I had to overcome not being aggressive enough and opening up(and struggled with it) in tournaments that were meaningless(certainly relatively speaking).

So I can see how you'd be up in the Semi's and you would be content just hanging in that underhook or trying to ride the last 5 seconds out on a leg. 

 

It's tough to see at that level though. Just brutal.