steamboat_charlie Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 5 minutes ago, Camel Wrestling Fan said: I sincerely do not know. Is the NBA investors (ownership stake of some portion) or has the money given been just a gift/charity? Is the NBA supporting financially as an INVESTMENT? The NBA founded the WNBA, initially owning 100% of the league. Today NBA owners collectively own about half of the league's equity. It's an investment, not a charity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyCinnabon Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 4 hours ago, Rassling said: Yet, you’re here contributing to another one of his threads??? Give it a rest already would ya. There is no rest for the weary my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyCinnabon Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 4 hours ago, Dogbone said: What? Your entire account is trolling another poster? The lack of self awareness is stunning. If you bothered to read my posts on this site you'd understand that I post in earnest and am not a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorwrestler Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 If you bothered to read my posts on this site you'd understand that I post in earnest and am not a troll. Hmmm… this sounds specifically like what a troll would say.. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyCinnabon Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 2 minutes ago, poorwrestler said: Hmmm… this sounds specifically like what a troll would say.. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdalu75 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 1 hour ago, poorwrestler said: Hmmm… this sounds specifically like what a troll would say.. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The guilty always claim to be innocent. Of course, so do the innocent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanut Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, steamboat_charlie said: The NBA founded the WNBA, initially owning 100% of the league. Today NBA owners collectively own about half of the league's equity. It's an investment, not a charity. If the WNBA is purely an investment, it seems like a questionable investment if it has lost money every year for nearly 30 years straight. (Personally I love that the WNBA exists and I hope that it does well moving forward.) Regardless, the issue is what WNBA players have leverage to ask for at the bargaining table, and there isn’t much leverage when the league has never made a profit. Edited April 24 by peanut 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbone Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 4 hours ago, JimmyCinnabon said: If you bothered to read my posts on this site you'd understand that I post in earnest and am not a troll. Not bothered, just pointing out a lack of self awareness of an account dedicated to trolling another poster calling trolls stupid. You do you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLB9 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 14 hours ago, Fred said: Aside from your hate post, it’s a decent thread, so far. Jimmy makes the forum more interesting and entertaining. He’s the Caitlin Clark of wrestling forums. We need Jimmy, realized that during his last hiatus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboat_charlie Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 13 hours ago, peanut said: If the WNBA is purely an investment, it seems like a questionable investment if it has lost money every year for nearly 30 years straight. (Personally I love that the WNBA exists and I hope that it does well moving forward.) Regardless, the issue is what WNBA players have leverage to ask for at the bargaining table, and there isn’t much leverage when the league has never made a profit. I already outlined why they actually do have leverage (despite operating at a loss) in my prior response to you. Near bottom of page one of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveira Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Some of it starts around the 3:20 mark. Also… doesn’t the nba have to provide a 15 million dollar endowment annually for it to survive? Any other start up that old still taking on that amount of $ would be dead. The nba makes 50x the revenue the wnba does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 8 hours ago, MLB9 said: He’s the Caitlin Clark of wrestling forums. We need Jimmy, realized that during his last hiatus. I agree that he adds entertainment, but he’s more like the Pat Downey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanut Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 39 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie said: I already outlined why they actually do have leverage (despite operating at a loss) in my prior response to you. Near bottom of page one of this thread. The WNBA players don’t have any leverage. The WNBA negotiators will ask where is the money for a pay raise going to come from. The players union will then have to say something like “take on more losses in this 30-year money losing venture” or “force the NBA to subsidize us even more.” Neither option is going to happen. The bottom line is that athletes are entertainers, and if WNBA players want significantly more money in salary, they will have to attract more eyeballs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboat_charlie Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 (edited) 2 hours ago, peanut said: The WNBA players don’t have any leverage. The WNBA negotiators will ask where is the money for a pay raise going to come from. The players union will then have to say something like “take on more losses in this 30-year money losing venture” or “force the NBA to subsidize us even more.” Neither option is going to happen. The bottom line is that athletes are entertainers, and if WNBA players want significantly more money in salary, they will have to attract more eyeballs. Not trying to be rude, but I don't think you understand the landscape. The WNBA's last TV deal was for $60MM. Their next TV deal which will be negotiated after the 24/25 NBA season is expected to be in the hundreds of millions. Average viewership for their games has more than doubled over the past three seasons. This was all before the phenomenon that was NCAA women's basketball this season. Live sport TV rights are a premium commodity as it's been proven to be basically the only form of reliable appointment-viewing content still available, and there is major competition between networks, cable, and the various streaming platforms to secure these rights. Beyond standard forms of revenue, WNBA owners can expect to receive significant auxiliary revenue in the form of expansion fees over the next 5 to 10 years. The NBA, so far, has been careful not to overexpand and dilute their equity at what they view as low prices. Their most recent additions paid ~$50mm in expansion fees. Now--why would these very smart, very successful investors pony up such a price on a money losing venture? Could it be that the value of an asset isn't strictly tied to current operating results? All you have to do is look to another fledgling league (MLS) to see the trajectory these fees could have. In 2007 an MLS expansion would cost you $10MM. In 2012, $50MM. In 2015, $100MM. In 2019, $150MM. 2022, $325MM. Last year, $500MM. I can keep going, but if you still don't understand I don't really see the point. Edited April 25 by steamboat_charlie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanut Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 (edited) 56 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie said: Not trying to be rude, but I don't think you understand the landscape. The WNBA's last TV deal was for $60MM. Their next TV deal which will be negotiated after the 24/25 NBA season is expected to be in the hundreds of millions. Average viewership for their games has more than doubled over the past three seasons. This was all before the phenomenon that was NCAA women's basketball this season. Live sport TV rights are a premium commodity as it's been proven to be basically the only form of reliable appointment-viewing content still available, and there is major competition between networks, cable, and the various streaming platforms to secure these rights. Beyond standard forms of revenue, WNBA owners can expect to receive significant auxiliary revenue in the form of expansion fees over the next 5 to 10 years. The NBA, so far, has been careful not to overexpand and dilute their equity at what they view as low prices. Their most recent additions paid ~$50mm in expansion fees. Now--why would these very smart, very successful investors pony up such a price on a money losing venture? Could it be that the value of an asset isn't strictly tied to current operating results? All you have to do is look to another fledgling league (MLS) to see the trajectory these fees could have. In 2007 an MLS expansion would cost you $10MM. In 2012, $50MM. In 2015, $100MM. In 2019, $150MM. 2022, $325MM. Last year, $500MM. I can keep going, but if you still don't understand I don't really see the point. The WNBA would have to have the worst negotiators of all time to make significant concessions on behalf of an organization that’s lost money for 30 years straight, and continues to lose money. (Of course the owners would never give the negotiators that leeway to begin with.) Edited April 25 by peanut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboat_charlie Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 2 hours ago, peanut said: The WNBA would have to have the worst negotiators of all time to make significant concessions on behalf of an organization that’s lost money for 30 years straight, and continues to lose money. (Of course the owners would never give the negotiators that leeway to begin with.) I guarantee you their next deal will be radically improved for the players, even if the WNBPA does a terrible job (which they probably will). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestle87 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 9 hours ago, Caveira said: Some of it starts around the 3:20 mark. Also… doesn’t the nba have to provide a 15 million dollar endowment annually for it to survive? Any other start up that old still taking on that amount of $ would be dead. The nba makes 50x the revenue the wnba does. Dude is hilarious... "when are you gonna pick up your end of the coach?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyCinnabon Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 On 4/24/2024 at 10:33 PM, Dogbone said: Not bothered, just pointing out a lack of self awareness of an account dedicated to trolling another poster calling trolls stupid. You do you. Cool. Cool cool cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidniteToka Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 On 4/25/2024 at 3:25 PM, steamboat_charlie said: I guarantee you their next deal will be radically improved for the players, even if the WNBPA does a terrible job (which they probably will). I guess what you're saying is... "Past performance is no indication of future results". The American business landscape has been litered for well over a hundred years with companies that are gonna make big bucks "next year". I've even worked for a couple. But, never longer than "next year". Does your financial prediction still hold if Caitlin Clark doesn't capture everyone's attention in the WNBA like she did in college, for whatever reason? I guess time will tell whether the WNBA will more closely resemble the NFL or the WFL, or the XFL, or... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Slack Wasatch via Snow College, Utah Class of 2024 Committed to Utah Valley Projected Weight: 197
Kasey Curtis North Sanpete via Snow College, Utah Class of 2024 Committed to Utah Valley Projected Weight: 133
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