Poaching or Portal?

[jackwebster]

28 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

Eufala had a rotten wrestling program back in the 80s. I remember that seeing a Eufala guy on your schedule meant instant "W"

Really? I didn't even know they had wrestling. 

[NM1965]

23 minutes ago, ionel said:

Never heard of the place, Wisconsin? 

Eufala, Oklahoma. It's near the border with Texas and they have a huge muddy lake there rich with gar and catfish. The Selmon brothers grew up there. In case you aren't 50 years old you may not know they were 3 badass linemen who were All Americans at OU then went on to NFL HOF type careers. 

It looks identical to all small Oklahoma towns, like a 1970s town trapped in some sort of hellish 1930s timewarp. 

 

 

[jackwebster]

1 minute ago, NM1965 said:

Eufala, Oklahoma. It's near the border with Texas and they have a huge muddy lake there rich with gar and catfish. The Selmon brothers grew up there. In case you aren't 50 years old you may not know they were 3 badass linemen who were All Americans at OU then went on to NFL HOF type careers. 

It looks identical to all small Oklahoma towns, like a 1970s town trapped in some sort of hellish 1930s timewarp. 

 

 

I think he was mocking my misspelling. Btw it's nowhere near Texas.

Edited March 27 by jackwebster

[NM1965]

2 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

Really? I didn't even know they had wrestling. 

LOL, yeah. We only encountered them at the Wagoner Invitational Tournament. Eufala wrestled those southern schools and, presumably, Texas schools if any had wrestling in the area. Their program was terrible, I'm surprised they produced a D1 wrestler. 

[Elevator]

13 hours ago, Idaho said:

The NCAA only cares about football and basketball....and they have had one token investigation into using NIL as a recruiting tool to show. They don't care about tampering. 

You are supposed to be in the portal before a team can even talk to you. Hamiti was in the portal with a Do Not Contact...hmmmm...wonder how that happened? 

Two years ago Iowa was using 3rd parties to contact - nothing you can do about it. I am sure that guys were being talked to during the season and at the NCAA. 

Guys are getting poached left and right...nobody will be saving the day - The teams with the big money like Michigan, Iowa, Penn State, etc. will continue to do it. Penn State could win without it....but the others need to do it to stay in the trophy hunt.   

Guys like Bailey and Little from LR are going to be offered some good $$ to leave because they have 3 years of eligibility left. It will be hard for them to turn down. 

This has been and will be the discussion every year. Who is getting poached. 

NCAA did not want NIL, courts have ordered that NIL be permitted because they are valuable economic rights of the athletes that cannot be monetized by the programs.  Mostly a basketball and football thing - but the same legal rights prevail in other lesser or nonrevenue sports. 

[Elevator]

4 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Cornell Ag school 2.0 confirmed.  

I am no Cornell fan - but all of Cornell's schools are outstanding.  The wrestling fan rag on Cornell and its Ag school is nonsense.

[ionel]

8 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

Eufala, Oklahoma. It's near the border with Texas and they have a huge muddy lake there rich with gar and catfish. The Selmon brothers grew up there. In case you aren't 50 years old you may not know they were 3 badass linemen who were All Americans at OU then went on to NFL HOF type careers. 

It looks identical to all small Oklahoma towns, like a 1970s town trapped in some sort of hellish 1930s timewarp. 

 

 

Never heard of it, can't find it, maybe Mexico?

[Elevator]

13 hours ago, ionel said:

Is it true Hamiti was seen leaving KC driving a Brinks truck?

 

There is no real $$ in NCAA wrestling for the coaches or the fans - that is reserved for basketball and football.  Fans do a disservice to criticize wrestlers and coaches on their financial motives.  Everyone is entitled to monetize their skills and time, however modest the amounts at issue.  

[1032004]

2 minutes ago, ionel said:

Never heard of it, can't find it, maybe Mexico?

Right next to Northern Illinois University of the Ivy League 

[Elevator]

Easy to fling anonymous internet rumors on poaching, but there is at least as much evidence that there are certain magnet programs who attract transfers with overall program assets and attributes such as coaching, quality workout partners, campus and program culture, and overal program assets (including NIL).   Programs and their supporters must compete or get whupped.  No whining.

[1032004]

4 minutes ago, Elevator said:

I am no Cornell fan - but all of Cornell's schools are outstanding.  The wrestling fan rag on Cornell and its Ag school is nonsense.

I never said that isn’t the case, but isn’t it true that the Ag School is by far the easiest to get into?

This Michigan thing might be worse anyway.   Are there any prerequisites to get accepted for a masters of social work?  Apparently you can get in with an undergrad degree in journalism.

[Elevator]

2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I never said that isn’t the case, but isn’t it true that the Ag School is by far the easiest to get into?

This Michigan thing might be worse anyway.   Are there any prerequisites to get accepted for a masters of social work?  Apparently you can get in with an undergrad degree in journalism.

Mark me down as extremely skeptical of wrestling fan criticism of the academic integrity of undergraduate programs from Ivy league schools or grad programs of B1G schools.  

[Elevator]

14 hours ago, Hillbilly Jim said:

I am no college sports expert so Help me understand your point.  I hate nil and how stars from small and medium will get poached.  I hope Michigan’s model crashes and burns somehow.  But if I am the AD at Little Rock and Nasir Bailey leaves—why will I cut the program?  I may not like it…but the program costs the same as it did before Bailey came there.  Most of these programs have no expectation of beating the power schools—same as all sports.  In fact, wrestling offers them a better chance to get an AA than say basketball does.  Don’t laugh at me if I am missing the obvious—just sincerely asking why nil will cause programs to be cut?  
I ask because we the wrestling community are rightfully angered by what Title ix did to wrestling.  But when we scream about how we expect wrestling programs getting cut all the time, I think it almost gives AD’s the go ahead and do it.  It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.  So I am not apt to scream about the sky falling for reasons that maybe isn’t the cause unless I can understand why.  And again, we agree—nil does suck.

The wrestlers who are getting NIL rather than have to work and take out college loans do not think it sucks.

[ionel]

4 minutes ago, Elevator said:

There is no real $$ in NCAA wrestling for the coaches or the fans - that is reserved for basketball and football.  Fans do a disservice to criticize wrestlers and coaches on their financial motives.  Everyone is entitled to monetize their skills and time, however modest the amounts at issue.  

NIL is not pay to play it is image & likeness.  What are some examples of wrestlers monetizing their image & likeness?  Ok ... and not counting JC paying Focus for the double bird image, I'm sure he must be paying, Jimmy always pays.  

[Elevator]

Just now, ionel said:

NIL is not pay to play it is image & likeness.  What are some examples of wrestlers monetizing their image & likeness?  Ok ... and not counting JC paying Focus for the double bird image, I'm sure he must be paying, Jimmy always pays.  

I should have said "monetize their name, image and likeness (earned by their skills and time).  It is true that there may be violations of NIL standards for more straightforward pay to play, but that is a case by case basis and I (and probably we here on this board) do not have the data.  

[Dogbone]

Not to distract from all of the Eufala, Oklahoma talk.  But someone on twitter/x (sorry, I can't remember who) suggested a rule that you can still have unlimited transfers but you are not allowed to take any NIL money for 1 year.  

It might cut down on the poaching and wouldn't require kids to stay in a situation they don't like.  You could also modify it to can't take any new NIL money so guys wouldn't have to take a "paycut" if they did want to transfer.

[Elevator]

Just now, Dogbone said:

Not to distract from all of the Eufala, Oklahoma talk.  But someone on twitter/x (sorry, I can't remember who) suggested a rule that you can still have unlimited transfers but you are not allowed to take any NIL money for 1 year.  

It might cut down on the poaching and wouldn't require kids to stay in a situation they don't like.  You could also modify it to can't take any new NIL money so guys wouldn't have to take a "paycut" if they did want to transfer.

Doubtful that the NCAA or schools have the legal authority to limit NIL this way, even if it would be good for the sport overall.  The legal analysis is based on the individial NIL rights of the athlete rather than the health of NCAA competition among programs and leagues.  Compete with the big dogs or expect to get your ass kicked. No whining.

[1032004]

9 minutes ago, Elevator said:

Mark me down as extremely skeptical of wrestling fan criticism of the academic integrity of undergraduate programs from Ivy league schools or grad programs of B1G schools.  

It’s not just wrestling fans that poke fun at the Cornell Ag school.  Which yes is still far better than the school I went to.

I’m also on record as stating the Covid year + transfer portal + NIL is great for athletes that are able to use it to get graduate degrees.  I know some of the Michigan guys already had graduate degrees which is awesome, but I’m skeptical that they’ll actually finish their masters in social work, but hopefully they do! At first glance the Real Estate Development certificate does seem like something that can be earned in a year though.

 

[gimpeltf]

1 hour ago, Elevator said:

I am no Cornell fan - but all of Cornell's schools are outstanding.  The wrestling fan rag on Cornell and its Ag school is nonsense.

To me I never really thought the ag school thing was as much about academics as in-state vs out-of-state tuition possibilities for them to utilize.

[Idaho]

1 hour ago, Elevator said:

NCAA did not want NIL, courts have ordered that NIL be permitted because they are valuable economic rights of the athletes that cannot be monetized by the programs.  Mostly a basketball and football thing - but the same legal rights prevail in other lesser or nonrevenue sports. 

Yep - they didn't want it because now they can't use NIL free of charge...it costs them money....and it's an absolute nightmare to manage. It still does not change the fact they are the group that manages the system that NIL is operating within .... If there is no recruiting/tampering if a kid is not in the portal, it should be enforced - but it's not. It's their job to create a system that works for everyone involved, but right now it's the wild wild west. 

[Tigerfan]

Does anyone know if APR is still a thing? Unlimited transfers would seem like that stat is rendered useless. If not, the poor have nots getting poached get dinged for APR AND lose a top athlete to boot. What’s the story?

[1032004]

17 hours ago, ionel said:

Poaching?  Who did they poach?

Hamiti

[ionel]

13 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Hamiti

Well ... ok ... sure ... but who doesn't want a nice poached hamiti. 

[NM1965]

5 hours ago, ionel said:

Well ... ok ... sure ... but who doesn't want a nice poached hamiti. 

OSU doesn't seem to actually develop talent anymore, they just ry to bring in guys from elsewhere. They got lucky with Plott. 

[boconnell]

1 hour ago, NM1965 said:

OSU doesn't seem to actually develop talent anymore, they just ry to bring in guys from elsewhere. They got lucky with Plott. 

Where are you coming up with this stuff?  You can obviously knock them for not developing guys in recent years, but then you go make stuff up about how they just try to bring guys in from elsewhere.  They had fewer transfer points in their lineup than almost any big school at the NCAA tournament.