Ranking Penn State's all-timers

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Based solely on performance during their college years, how do you rank these guys:

• Jason Nolf (3x champ, 4x finalist)
• Bo Nickal (3x champ, 4x finalist, Hodge)
• Ed Ruth (3x champ)
• Zain Retherford (3x champ, 2x Hodge)
• Aaron Brooks (4x champ, Hodge)
• Carter Starocci (4x champ)
• David Taylor (2x champ, 4x finalist, 2x Hodge)
• Quentin Wright (2x champ, 3x finalist)
• Vicenzo Joseph (2x champ, 3x finalist...missed last shot due to COVID cancelling season)

 

Of the current group I expect the following to be multi-time champs by the time they finish college:

• Kasak (at 141)
• Levi Haines
• Mesenbrink
• Kerk (if he comes back)

Edited March 25 by Jimmy Cinnabon

[Elevator]

At least honorable mention:

Mark Hall - probably belongs on the list but covid-robbed of his last year to get another title and NCAA finals appearance. 

Kerry McCoy -  2x NCAA Champ and won 131 of his last 132 matches w an 88-match winning streak.

[HarryConnickJr]

To counteract all the lists that inevitably have Ed Ruth too low, I am going with 
1. Ruth 

2. Starocci

3. Brooks

4. Nolf 

5.Zain

6. Nickal

7. Taylor

8. Joseph

9. Wright

[Tyler]

Marco Vespa

AB

Star

DT

Nolf/Bo/Zain

Ruth

McCoy

Joseph

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Perhaps we can tier them by dominance at their peak in college

Tier S - these guys make their opponents look silly; winning is so easily they just experiment with new moves during matches

• Ruth
• Taylor
• Zain
• Nolf
• Nickal

Tier A - very dominant where the outcome is never in doubt and almost always bonus

• Brooks
• Starocci

Tier B

• RBY
• Joseph
• Wright
• Lee
• Haines
• Kerk

Tier C

• Hall
• Cassar
• Dean
• Brown
• Megaludis
• Molinaro
• Davis

[Elevator]

2 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Perhaps we can tier them by dominance at their peak in college

Tier S - these guys make their opponents look silly; winning is so easily they just experiment with new moves during matches

• Ruth
• Taylor
• Zain
• Nolf
• Nickal

Tier A - very dominant where the outcome is never in doubt and almost always bonus

• Brooks
• Starocci

Tier B

• RBY
• Joseph
• Wright
• Lee
• Haines
• Kerk

Tier C

• Hall
• Cassar
• Dean
• Brown
• Megaludis
• Molinaro
• Davis

I have Lee and RBY higher and the story w Kerk, Haines and MM still being written.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

10 minutes ago, Elevator said:

I have Lee and RBY higher and the story w Kerk, Haines and MM still being written.

Fair.  I think Kerk, Haines, and MM all win at least 2.  Haines and MM could win 3.

[OMW]

Jimmy - Such the Penn State homer/fan that he leaves off from an all-timer list:

Jeff Prescott (2x champ)

Andy Matter (1st 2x champ for Penn State)

Jimmy Martin (1st 4x AA that was a National Champion)

Sonny Abe (4x AA that went 4, 3, 2, 1)

Phil Davis (4x AA, 1x National Champ)

[Caveira]

Was Cstar really that dominant?   In this category at least.  
 

He Only has a 20% bonus rate at the ncaa tournament.   Mm has 3 bonus wins already.  Will catch Cstar next year.    Cstar only has 4 bonus wins at NCAAs.   Including 6 shutout (hours of riding time with few if any turns) wins.    30% of his wins are like 2-0 or 4-0.  
 

True frosh kasak already has more career bonus wins at NCAAs (5) compared to Cstar.  

[macwoodfleet]

For me, in terms of folkstyle, Zain Retherford was the best folkstyle wrestler. Incredible in all three positions. Pushed the pace, was physical, could shoot and score to both legs, great short offense, and committed crimes against humanity on top. 

[JuanMogen]

Jesus took home four championships in just one year. I’m putting him up there towards the top. 

[Elevator]

2 hours ago, OMW said:

Jimmy - Such the Penn State homer/fan that he leaves off from an all-timer list:

Jeff Prescott (2x champ)

Andy Matter (1st 2x champ for Penn State)

Jimmy Martin (1st 4x AA that was a National Champion)

Sonny Abe (4x AA that went 4, 3, 2, 1)

Phil Davis (4x AA, 1x National Champ)

Andy Matter was so dominant in his day that he was known as "the great Andy Matter" - so I've been told by wrestling fans from that era.   Definitely would add him to the list - Abe is close too.  

[Bardamu911]

nobody asked but my all time fave Nittany Lion BY FAR is Shinshiro Abe....now that guy was fun to watch!!

[11986]

27 minutes ago, Bardamu911 said:

nobody asked but my all time fave Nittany Lion BY FAR is Shinshiro Abe....now that guy was fun to watch!!

They were close timeframe wise and both won national titles at 126, both went 1,2,3,4 at NCAAs (different places by year though), anyway always figured Abe v Martin would have been a fun scrap. 

Edited March 25 by 11986

[gimpeltf]

7 minutes ago, 11986 said:

They were close timeframe wise and both won national titles at 126, both went 1,2,3,4 at NCAAs (different places by year though), anyway always figured Abe v Martin would have been a fun scrap. 

Not sure what you mean close in time frame. Martin graduated in 89 Abe in 96.

[11986]

5 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

Not sure what you mean close in time frame. Martin graduated in 89 Abe in 96.

And Abe started his career in 93 so only a few years between if that makes sense. And more or less same eras so easier to compare vs fun to think about but harder to compare fantasy matches like 2024 PSU vs 1997 Iowa stuff. 

[gimpeltf]

5 minutes ago, 11986 said:

And Abe started his career in 93 so only a few years between if that makes sense. And more or less same eras so easier to compare vs fun to think about but harder to compare fantasy matches like 2024 PSU vs 1997 Iowa stuff. 

But Martin would have almost been Fix's age by then!

[11986]

1 minute ago, gimpeltf said:

But Martin would have almost been Fix's age by then!

Good point but he still would have looked like he was 12. 

[MidwestMan]

3 hours ago, JuanMogen said:

Jesus took home four championships in just one year. I’m putting him up there towards the top. 

I just spit my dinner on the table trying to read this and eat.  That was a belly wiggler for sure.  

[gimpeltf]

Just now, 11986 said:

Good point but he still would have looked like he was 12. 

Like Braeden?

[11986]

Just now, gimpeltf said:

Like Braeden?

We’ll have to see how he ages. Dr Jim Martin still looks like a youngster. And you know if you wanna be in the baby faced assassin discussion you gotta place your freshman year.

[Le duke]

College DT was great (2x Hodge...) but Aaron Brooks is the only guy Cael has ever coached who would be a legit senior worlds/Olympic medalist, today, as a college student.

I can't say the same thing about Nolf, Zain, DT, Nickal or Ed. And they were all amazingly good wrestlers.

[Lleynor]

4 hours ago, macwoodfleet said:

For me, in terms of folkstyle, Zain Retherford was the best folkstyle wrestler. Incredible in all three positions. Pushed the pace, was physical, could shoot and score to both legs, great short offense, and committed crimes against humanity on top. 

 

This is where I am as well. As a True Freshman, he took out Stieber. 

Honest question. Do any of y'all really put Starocci in any od the top categories. Like Stieber I mentioned above, these two won 4 but just still was lackluster to me. 

[JimmyCinnabon]

37 minutes ago, Lleynor said:

 

This is where I am as well. As a True Freshman, he took out Stieber. 

Honest question. Do any of y'all really put Starocci in any od the top categories. Like Stieber I mentioned above, these two won 4 but just still was lackluster to me. 

Man people are already trying to rewrite history in regards to Carter. 
 

Neither Carter or Steiber had lackluster careers. Both of them were absolutely dominant and feared. 

[Lleynor]

18 minutes ago, JimmyCinnabon said:

Man people are already trying to rewrite history in regards to Carter. 
 

Neither Carter or Steiber had lackluster careers. Both of them were absolutely dominant and feared. 

I don't mean career. Just on the mat. Neither really excited me that much.