Brands crying in interview?

[BIGTENFANBOY]

9 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

Appreciate your general intention, but:

• Cael is not even close to being the best raw coach in the country. Cunningham is in the the mix.
• Cael could leave tomorrow and the impact on PSU would be primarily recruiting, and marketing a close 2nd.
• NIL has rendered much of this discussion pointless. Money talks - and PSU capitalizes on it. That is sad.
• No, we'll never miss one particular dominant team over another. We'll just enjoy the competition, as always.

Someone certainly is salty. Cael is the best raw coach. Bottom line. Get over it buddy.

Edited March 25 by BIGTENFANBOY

[Hwt1]

37 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

Cael.  Cornell if it's the 70% who didn't AA. 

Should have said this in my other response. I did see what you did there - Cornell only had 3 AA this year.  

[RockLobster]

7 minutes ago, BIGTENFANBOY said:

Someone certainly is salty. Cael is the best raw coach. Bottom line. Get over it buddy.

What's this 'buddy' bullshit. I'm not your buddy.

Cunningham is in the mix, he's a damn good raw coach. Cael is not near his coaching level, nor that of many others.

I'd say Cael is more useful for non-coaching tasks. Valuable ones.

Seems you have a very different bottom line than I do.

[wrestle87]

18 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

Appreciate your general intention, but:

• Cael is not even close to being the best raw coach in the country. Cunningham is in the the mix.
• Cael could leave tomorrow and the impact on PSU would be primarily recruiting, and marketing a close 2nd.
• NIL has rendered much of this discussion pointless. Money talks - and PSU capitalizes on it. That is sad.
• No, we'll never miss one particular dominant team over another. We'll just enjoy the competition, as always.

Yeah, NIL has really smoothed out the playing field in the near term.

I don't know enough about the coaching dynamics within the room, Cunningham is undoubtedly an invaluable part of the proverbial penn state pizza.

And no, we won't miss dominance, but the overall level of wrestling goes in waves.  Each team of amazing performers have their own feel, their own style and flavor of wrestling.  There have never been teams that had that J-Rob Minnesota vibe.  That was something you had to see during those years when it was around.  If you missed it, it's gone, video doesn't do it justice.  

Same thing with the Rosholt Hendricks Era '05 oklahoma state teams, they were unapologetically in your face, and they always showed up when it counted. Nothing like them since.

And now, with these teams.  Penn State has a vibe that won't be replicated.  There will be other amazing technicians and coaches who come through, but this experience is unique to that environment and what that room puts forth.  

To change lanes considerably to approach the concept from a different angle, no matter where you are or what you're doing, it's always a good idea to spend a few minutes appreciating a sunset.  

[Hwt1]

25 minutes ago, BIGTENFANBOY said:

Yes but the entire state of PA is not funding the PSU program. The general public doesnt know or care about wrestling, even in PA. Spencer Lee has gone on recordsaying , being a wrestler in Iowa makes you a semi celebrity. Furthermore again, Iowa has a longer deeper traditon of success when it comes to collegiate wrestling. One would think that with decades of wrestling success, they would have no problems with getting an overabundance of funding. Arent there any people who graduate from Iowa that go on to become filthy rich? 

There are - but they still have to care about wrestling, just like your comment about the general public in PA. It’s not like Iowa wrestling isn’t well funded compared to majority of other schools, but no where near PSU. And in recent years PSU has been more successful, which creates more funding as you stated.

[BIGTENFANBOY]

59 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

What's this 'buddy' bullshit. I'm not your buddy.

Cunningham is in the mix, he's a damn good raw coach. Cael is not near his coaching level, nor that of many others.

I'd say Cael is more useful for non-coaching tasks. Valuable ones.

Seems you have a very different bottom line than I do.

Its good to know youre so knowledgeable about who who and what makes a good coach. You must be like the greatest athletic director in the universe. ,aybe Iowa should put you in charge of finding replacing Tom Brands. Youre right youre not my buddy, you are an arrogant pretentious punk.

[BIGTENFANBOY]

51 minutes ago, Hwt1 said:

There are - but they still have to care about wrestling, just like your comment about the general public in PA. It’s not like Iowa wrestling isn’t well funded compared to majority of other schools, but no where near PSU. And in recent years PSU has been more successful, which creates more funding as you stated.

So dont use PSUs funding as the reason why theyre great. The funding is great because theyre doing great.

[Hwt1]

1 hour ago, BIGTENFANBOY said:

Yes i know, but he was writing off Dressers success at ISU, so i was pointing out he did it previously as well elsewhere.

So Dresser finished top 5 twice (probably top 10 as well) since he has been coaching college starting in 2007. Meanwhile, Tom has been top 5 every year since 2008, with 4(5) championships. And those 2 years by Dresser were the only years since 2008 Tom wasn’t top 4. 
2016: 4th VT 82 points; 5th Iowa 81 points

2024: 4th ISU 68.5; 5th Iowa 67

As I said before, no way Dresser is replacing Brands at Iowa. Not even comparable. Never has beat him in a dual and the two best NCAA finishes in his career, only beats him by combined 2.5 points, including the lucky medical forfeit this year.

[Hwt1]

5 minutes ago, BIGTENFANBOY said:

So dont use PSUs funding as the reason why theyre great. The funding is great because theyre doing great.

I never did! I was responding to the other guys post that was implying Brands was only successful because he was consistently second highest funded coach. Looks like you are salty now

[BIGTENFANBOY]

3 minutes ago, Hwt1 said:

So Dresser finished top 5 twice (probably top 10 as well) since he has been coaching college starting in 2007. Meanwhile, Tom has been top 5 every year since 2008, with 4(5) championships. And those 2 years by Dresser were the only years since 2008 Tom wasn’t top 4. 
2016: 4th VT 82 points; 5th Iowa 81 points

2024: 4th ISU 68.5; 5th Iowa 67

As I said before, no way Dresser is replacing Brands at Iowa. Not even comparable. Never has beat him in a dual and the two best NCAA finishes in his career, only beats him by combined 2.5 points, including the lucky medical forfeit this year.

Dresser has had much less to work with than Brands. Hes revitalized 2 "dead" programs. Even at Iowa's worst, they have always been amongst the top programs. I would say flip the 2 scenarios, Iowa would be in a much better position than it is today. Dresser has never had a season that was worse than when he started. Brands has had 2.

[Hwt1]

7 minutes ago, BIGTENFANBOY said:

Dresser has had much less to work with than Brands. Hes revitalized 2 "dead" programs. Even at Iowa's worst, they have always been amongst the top programs. I would say flip the 2 scenarios, Iowa would be in a much better position than it is today. Dresser has never had a season that was worse than when he started. Brands has had 2.

So now you are saying Brands is only better because he had more to work with? But PSU has more to work with / funding because they are great? Can’t have it both ways, treat them consistently. 

[1032004]

11 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

From my perspective, it felt like I said, "He may do this on behalf of his legacy, ego and personal ambition," and got a bunch of people responding, "Yeah but he has a cow." I see what you're saying obviously all valid points.

I get what you’re saying, but he makes good money “selling juice and coaching club.”   Iowa would need to make it worth his while, it’s not like he’s just going to be willing to uproot his entire life just because he wants a challenge.   I don’t see them offering what it would take to get him, or even moreso, firing the second most successful active coach to bring in a guy with no college coaching experience.

[BIGTENFANBOY]

4 minutes ago, Hwt1 said:

So now you are saying Brands is only better because he had more to work with? But PSU has more to work with / funding because they are great? Can’t have it both ways, treat them consistently. 

I am and 100% being consistent. PSU has more to work with NOW, because Cael built it up. He earned it and "you get what you earn" Brands has less than Cael because he has not built Iowa up. "Younget what you earn"  He had a 3 peat run with his dual recruiting class after completely gutting VATech, then the fell back to exactly where they were under Zalesky. He had a brief run where he road the coattails of Spencer Lee and quite hinestly completely mismanaged his health. Lee would have been a 3x champ anywhere, and i mean that literally.

Dresser resurrected 2 dead programs. Both VA Tech and ISU were better under Dresser than when he took over. They didnt waver and dip down to where they were when he started.  Cannot say the same for Brands with Iowa. I never said Brands was better. In fact I'm saying Brands is not better. After Dresser rebuilt VAtech, Brands refused to wrestle them and politick his way out of wrestling thenpm at National duals because he knew Iowa would lose. So youre right, Dresser never beat Brands in a dual. 

[BIGTENFANBOY]

10 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I get what you’re saying, but he makes good money “selling juice and coaching club.”   Iowa would need to make it worth his while, it’s not like he’s just going to be willing to uproot his entire life just because he wants a challenge.   I don’t see them offering what it would take to get him, or even moreso, firing the second most successful active coach to bring in a guy with no college coaching experience.

Is he really the second most success?

Since the PSU run started in 2011 hes won 1 title, and finished 2nd twice.

Its arguable that Tom Ryan has had just as much success as hes had more 2nd place finishes during the same time. 

 

I dont really understand how people say Iowa has consistently been the 2nd best team behind PSU, when theyve only finished 2nd twice behind PSU since 2011..

Edited March 25 by BIGTENFANBOY

[Hwt1]

16 minutes ago, BIGTENFANBOY said:

I am and 100% being consistent. PSU has more to work with NOW, because Cael built it up. He earned it and "you get what you earn" Brands has less than Cael because he has not built Iowa up. "Younget what you earn"  He had a 3 peat run with his dual recruiting class after completely gutting VATech, then the fell back to exactly where they were under Zalesky. He had a brief run where he road the coattails of Spencer Lee and quite hinestly completely mismanaged his health. Lee would have been a 3x champ anywhere, and i mean that literally.

Dresser resurrected 2 dead programs. Both VA Tech and ISU were better under Dresser than when he took over. They didnt waver and dip down to where they were when he started.  Cannot say the same for Brands with Iowa. I never said Brands was better. In fact I'm saying Brands is not better. After Dresser rebuilt VAtech, Brands refused to wrestle them and politick his way out of wrestling thenpm at National duals because he knew Iowa would lose. So youre right, Dresser never beat Brands in a dual. 

You are comparing Brands to Cael. So if Brands doesn’t win championships, he is not a good coach even though he is consistently placing in top 4/5. Zalesky had a few years outside of top 5. Try comparing Dresser to Cael and see how that looks. You are putting an awful lot of credit into one year that VT potentially would have won a dual (remember only 1 point difference at NCAA). They have wrestled every year since 2017 and Dresser hasn’t won yet. 

[BIGTENFANBOY]

3 minutes ago, Hwt1 said:

You are comparing Brands to Cael. So if Brands doesn’t win championships, he is not a good coach even though he is consistently placing in top 4/5. Zalesky had a few years outside of top 5. Try comparing Dresser to Cael and see how that looks. You are putting an awful lot of credit into one year that VT potentially would have won a dual (remember only 1 point difference at NCAA). They have wrestled every year since 2017 and Dresser hasn’t won yet. 

Zalesky had 1 year where they placed 6th, youre exaggerating numbers. Zalesky, like Brands was consistently  in the top 5. Ive stated facts. Dresser has done more with VATech and ISU than Brands has done with Iowa. If Brands was at ISU, they would not be close to what they are today.

And yes I am giving a world of credit to Dresser for the 1 year because again he revived a DEAD and GUTTED program to bring it past Iowa only to have Brands do everything possible to not wrestle them. These are facts you refuse to recognize.

Please take a look at where each program was when Brands and Dresser took over their respective teams and see where they are now. Dresser has improved his teams. Brands has come full circle and worse with his.

[1032004]

1 hour ago, BIGTENFANBOY said:

Is he really the second most success?

Since the PSU run started in 2011 hes won 1 title, and finished 2nd twice.

Its arguable that Tom Ryan has had just as much success as hes had more 2nd place finishes during the same time. 

 

I dont really understand how people say Iowa has consistently been the 2nd best team behind PSU, when theyve only finished 2nd twice behind PSU since 2011..

Yes he is.  I believe @Wrestleknownothing has shown the chart with average finish or something in the last 10-15 years and Iowa was well ahead of the third place team, which I think was Cornell IIRC.

[Hwt1]

You have stated opinions, not facts:

”Iowa would be in a much better position today if they had Dresser”

”If Brands was at ISU, they would not be close to where they are today”

You refuse to recognize the facts I have said:

Brands has been in top 5 17 years in a row, including 4/5 championships. Other than Cael, name a coach that can say that. Smith can’t, Ryan can’t, Michigan can’t, Cornell can’t. And sure as heck Dresser can’t. Only twice in 17 years. That is why Iowa is 2nd best program.

Of course it is easier to improve performance from an over 20 team to something respectable (top 10 once in a while). But can he keep it there or just be every few years. That is lot easier than trying to take over a dominant / generational powerhouse like Cael, Gable. Will Dresser be a failure if can’t beat Cael? Brands replaced 70% of his lineup and still finished top 5. Good luck to Dresser if he has to do that.

Edited March 25 by Hwt1

[swoopdown]

It seems a tenet of the faith the PSU is awash in money - more than any others.  Does anyone have a reliable source supporting this premise?  Any details regarding who contributes money?  Where is the spend going?

I've never actually seen anything credible and am curious.  I mean the University enrollment is declining, there is a budget crisis, state funding is less than most.  The population of PA stagnated as the industrial base declines.  Football makes money for the athletic programs but less than Ohio State and Michigan.  So it must be mega-rich alums, right?  Anybody have any references?  Or is it  "it must be true 'cause I saw it on the Internet" phenomenon?

[MidwestMan]

BIGTENFANBOY and Hwt1, I see both your points in your arguments.  The perspective is over 2 different ranges of time.  B10FB, I will say, I like what Dresser is doing with Iowa State.  As a Mizzou fan, I knew the Big 12 bar was getting raised when he took that job.  A team takes the personality of it's coaches and the Iowa State coaches are pretty fiery and gritty.  I also have a ton of respect for Schwab and Northern Iowa.

I'm sharing my perspective on the other points that have been raised on this topic concerning NIL, funding, fan support/tradition.  Just my 2 cents, and for more perspective, let's include the state of Oklahoma.  All 3 have a rich tradition and history in wrestling.  Pennsylvania, probably is the richest state talent wise, year to year.  Throw in the surrounding large population centers, private wrestling factories (private schools-Blair, Seminary, etc...) Penn State should have been a power house waaay before Cale.  Cale had the name recognition and because of his success, is a wrestler magnet, and he surrounded himself with great assistants.  Winning takes care of itself and everyone loves to be associated with/follow a winner.  (I live in Missouri and want to gag myself when I see someone living in Missouri wearing a Jayhawk BB shirt.)  Winning opens the checkbooks of those rich farmers in Iowa, the oil and gas billionaires in Oklahoma, and from the masses of people, both blue collar and white, grinding on with their lives looking for something that will give them some joy and the possessive association to say, "my, ours, we!"  They are all in and proud as hell when their winning, and pissed off and spewing vinegar on forums when their team goes to nats and lay a big ass egg, not reaching expectations.

All dynasties eventually end.  Money can buy coaches and athletes. What does loyalty cost?  Imagine a scenario like a Ben Askren coming to Missouri and a Kegan Otoole hanging around as an asst.  You see how that could create a new Caesar?

[1032004]

13 minutes ago, swoopdown said:

It seems a tenet of the faith the PSU is awash in money - more than any others.  Does anyone have a reliable source supporting this premise?  Any details regarding who contributes money?  Where is the spend going?

I've never actually seen anything credible and am curious.  I mean the University enrollment is declining, there is a budget crisis, state funding is less than most.  The population of PA stagnated as the industrial base declines.  Football makes money for the athletic programs but less than Ohio State and Michigan.  So it must be mega-rich alums, right?  Anybody have any references?  Or is it  "it must be true 'cause I saw it on the Internet" phenomenon?

A bit dated, but here ya go

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/5068724-tax-forms-reveal-stunning-finances-at-nittany-lion-wrestling-club

[MidwestMan]

Wowser!!!  Thanks for sharing.  That kind if money will buy a lot of headgear.

[swoopdown]

37 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

A bit dated, but here ya go

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/5068724-tax-forms-reveal-stunning-finances-at-nittany-lion-wrestling-club

thank you!  It looks like someone(s) contributed $5,524,538 in 2014.   So a one year pop.  Not as much as I thought given the yearly expenses of an international wrestling operation.  Salaries around $450k alone are close to the typical income for a year - may not be a sustainable model without periodic one time gifts.    There must be other funds outside the club - do individual wrestlers fund their own travel and training expenses and have their own income streams?  Of course this is for the freestyle operation and doesn't really shed much light on the collegiate side.   Interesting for sure though.  I'll have to put on my financial analyst hat and explore some of these links sometime.

I suspect there is a lot more money moving on the collegiate side.  OSU with a new facility.  Iowa building something new.  And NIL changes everything.  We still haven't seen who wins and losses from that change.

Edited March 25 by swoopdown
mind at work. slowly but at work.

[swoopdown]

So the good news for those rooting for the demise of nittany lion freestyle club is the club lost $258,211 in 2015.  At that burn rate the $5 million 2014 contribution will be gone by 2034 and expenses will have to be cut.  Unless they can find another donor that is.

[1032004]

1 minute ago, swoopdown said:

So the good news for those rooting for the demise of nittany lion freestyle club is the club lost $258,211 in 2015.  At that burn rate the $5 million 2014 contribution will be gone by 2034 and expenses will have to be cut.  Unless they can find another donor that is.

Or the same donor to make another donation…