jross Posted January 2, 2023 Posted January 2, 2023 What would society do if this woman was a big dog acting similarly? She acted unpredictably and committed severe violence on multiple occasions (she stabbed a workman and pushed a 3-year-old girl on train tracks). She said she wanted to die. Do you isolate her for life? Her behavior is on video, and her proven guilt is absolute. How much will it cost to house and medicate this lady for the rest of her life?
jross Posted January 2, 2023 Posted January 2, 2023 Covid? may have criminal acts beyond the MoD. What is the source of Covid? How did it spread? Did any players in the event 201 risk-mitigation tabletops in October 2019 have involvement in Covid funding or its release? Was there any mal-intent? Who, what, when, where, why, and how were the Covid mitigation decisions made? 1
GreatWhiteNorth Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 8 hours ago, jross said: What would society do if this woman was a big dog acting similarly? She acted unpredictably and committed severe violence on multiple occasions (she stabbed a workman and pushed a 3-year-old girl on train tracks). She said she wanted to die. Do you isolate her for life? Her behavior is on video, and her proven guilt is absolute. How much will it cost to house and medicate this lady for the rest of her life? People are not dogs. And getting fired up about wanting to kill either people or dogs is sketchy.
GreatWhiteNorth Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 8 hours ago, jross said: Covid? may have criminal acts beyond the MoD. What is the source of Covid? How did it spread? Did any players in the event 201 risk-mitigation tabletops in October 2019 have involvement in Covid funding or its release? Was there any mal-intent? Who, what, when, where, why, and how were the Covid mitigation decisions made? I've heard enough conspiracy theories for 100 lifetimes. We know for a fact that people are still dying from Covid. All the bickering and misdirection doesn't change that reality. Be angry at whoever you want. We still need to deal with what's in front of us. 1
Mike Parrish Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said: I've heard enough conspiracy theories for 100 lifetimes. We know for a fact that people are still dying from Covid. All the bickering and misdirection doesn't change that reality. Be angry at whoever you want. We still need to deal with what's in front of us. Surely horse dewormer and anti-malarial drugs are the solution to our dilemma! Perhaps an ultraviolet light up the butt! Or we could, and hear me out here, listen to people who have spent 10+ years getting a medical education and then another 20+ years specializing in studying virii and how they spread... Naw! I'm sure the demon semen doctor and Alex Jones have figured it all right out... Edited January 3, 2023 by Mike Parrish 2
Bigbrog Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 I'll wait for the answer like I have at the old forum...why is Covid counted differently than any other virus??? 1
GreatWhiteNorth Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, Bigbrog said: I'll wait for the answer like I have at the old forum...why is Covid counted differently than any other virus??? Honestly... why is that somehow important to you and certain media outlets? Why is that somehow a burning question that needs to be answered? I don't get it. I'm 100% serious. Not trying to argue or fight with you. Just trying to reach common ground. I welcome an honest discussion. 1
Mike Parrish Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 Just now, GreatWhiteNorth said: Honestly... why is that somehow important to you and certain media outlets? Why is that somehow a burning question that needs to be answered? I don't get it. I'm 100% serious. Not trying to argue or fight with you. Just trying to reach common ground. I welcome an honest discussion. It'll be like trying teach a pigeon to play chess. 1
GreatWhiteNorth Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 Just now, Mike Parrish said: It'll be like trying teach a pigeon to play chess. True story - I have a 1st place Chess Championship trophy... somewhere. I haven't seen it in a while. If not me, then who is better suited? 1
Bigbrog Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said: Honestly... why is that somehow important to you and certain media outlets? Why is that somehow a burning question that needs to be answered? I don't get it. I'm 100% serious. Not trying to argue or fight with you. Just trying to reach common ground. I welcome an honest discussion. Its amazing that you don't care about that question...how do you compare the severity of a virus when you change the definition of what the virus causes?? I too am not trying to argue, but how does one say Covid is so deadly but the definition of what caused death was changed for Covid...it is different for all other viruses.
Mike Parrish Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 Just now, GreatWhiteNorth said: True story - I have a 1st place Chess Championship trophy... somewhere. I haven't seen it in a while. If not me, then who is better suited? Me too! Sophomore year in high school. Best case: He shits all over the board, knocks over the pieces and tells you he just won. 1
Mike Parrish Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 Just now, Bigbrog said: Its amazing that you don't care about that question...how do you compare the severity of a virus when you change the definition of what the virus causes?? I too am not trying to argue, but how does one say Covid is so deadly but the definition of what caused death was changed for Covid...it is different for all other viruses. Since you're making an implicit assertion that COVID fatalities are being counted differently than prior pandemics/epidemics, perhaps you would care to provide evidence that supports your assertion? Peer reviewed papers published in reputable journals or organizations only, please.
Bigbrog Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Mike Parrish said: Me too! Sophomore year in high school. Best case: He shits all over the board, knocks over the pieces and tells you he just won. LOL...you are the worst debater in the world...all you do is try and deflect and try and get personal because you have no response. 1
Bigbrog Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Mike Parrish said: Since you're making an implicit assertion that COVID fatalities are being counted differently than prior pandemics/epidemics, perhaps you would care to provide evidence that supports your assertion? Peer reviewed papers published in reputable journals or organizations only, please. Are you freaking serious...read the CDC website...they have been explicit that they are counting it different. You are seriously disengenious to think that Covid and the Flu have been counted the same. Tell me the last time you relative had terminal cancer and got sick with the flu and the death was documented as the flu?? Tell me the last time your relative had terminal cancer and got sick with Covid and the death was documented as Covid?? I can tell you both...read the f'ing CDC's website!! 1
GreatWhiteNorth Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 7 minutes ago, Bigbrog said: Its amazing that you don't care about that question...how do you compare the severity of a virus when you change the definition of what the virus causes?? I too am not trying to argue, but how does one say Covid is so deadly but the definition of what caused death was changed for Covid...it is different for all other viruses. I have no interest in comparing the severity of a virus. Covid does cause deaths - certainly you aren't arguing that it hasn't - are you? Viruses are a concern. All of them. Covid is of high concern because it has killed so many. It's not a football game, the numbers won't decide a winner. It isn't about the biggest or most. It's just about what it is. Covid kills people the world over. Still, to this day, every day.
Mike Parrish Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, Bigbrog said: Are you freaking serious...read the CDC website...they have been explicit that they are counting it different. You are seriously disengenious to think that Covid and the Flu have been counted the same. Tell me the last time you relative had terminal cancer and got sick with the flu and the death was documented as the flu?? Tell me the last time your relative had terminal cancer and got sick with Covid and the death was documented as Covid?? I can tell you both...read the f'ing CDC's website!! Once again, you make evidence free assertions. It must be so very frustrating to be you. P.S. When I said, "read the article", I had posted the link to the article in that thread. Are you going to post any links to peer reviewed papers?
Bigbrog Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 12 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said: I have no interest in comparing the severity of a virus. Covid does cause deaths - certainly you aren't arguing that it hasn't - are you? Viruses are a concern. All of them. Covid is of high concern because it has killed so many. It's not a football game, the numbers won't decide a winner. It isn't about the biggest or most. It's just about what it is. Covid kills people the world over. Still, to this day, every day. Wow...how can you say you have no interest in comparing severity of a virus...seriously?!?! How in the hell do you make your decisions on what is safe for you and what isn't? Or do you just wait for someone else to tell you how to react and behave? And no shit sherlock...this isn't a game...it isn't about winning or losing other than the fact that decisions are made that do in fact impact life's and livelihoods based on severity of a virus. You going to tell all those kids who missed out on once in a lifetime opportunities you don't care who wins or loses? Are you going to tell all those small business that went under and lost their life savings you don't care who wins or loses?? What about all the mental health issues?? How about the opiod epidemic?? How about all the things that kill people WAY more than Covid? I am in no way downplaying Covid, and in no way dismissing anything, but if you can't see the importance of truly understanding the severity of a virus, and/or you can't see how badly this whole thing was basterdized by our politicians and the media than you truly are not worth arguing with. I honestly think it is sad that there is even a need to debate this...it should have never gotten to this point...we got screwed over by our "leaders" and "experts" for political reasons. It should have never been overblown or undersold as to what this was and can cause. And the reality of it all is you are probably wrong AND I am probably wrong in regard to this...that is how bad it has gotten when it shouldn't have. 1 1
jross Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said: Getting fired up about wanting to kill either people or dogs is sketchy. Supporting capital punishment in a narrow set of circumstances does not mean "I want" to kill people or "I'm fired up." CP is a sad situation for very rare circumstances, filled with guilt, and not a job that I would perform. What's sketchy is that hundreds of people sign up for open jobs as executioners. It is confusing that "I value human life" US adults morally tolerate the "I'm not ready to be a parent" reason to dispatch millions of innocent unborn babies. At the same time, some of these people claim capital punishment is intolerable in all circumstances. I was surprised that 40% of people surveyed in this study would save their pet over a stranger if both were in front of a bus and only one could be saved. I'm one of the 60% that would save the random stranger over my Golden Retriever. However, I would save my Golden if the stranger was that murderous lady. Is there a price on human life? According to the 4000-year-old Code of Hammurabi, the unborn life was worth ten shekels, and adult life was an eye for an eye. Nowadays, the US government values a statistical life at $10 Million. The cost of incarcerating a criminal for 40 years is ~$1 Million. Add CP, and it's triple that cost. CP is not cost-effective, nor should it be for most situations. To an earlier practical point, for a narrow set of situations with simply unquestionable guilt convictions, the CP process could be streamlined and cost-effective. After exploring this and that, by all calculations for morality and the price of human life, the MoD for Briner trade was an objectively bad deal. Edited January 3, 2023 by jross
jross Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Bigbrog said: And the reality of it all is you are probably wrong AND I am probably wrong in regard to this...that is how bad it has gotten when it shouldn't have. It is appreciated that regardless of one's opinion, one does not step into the trap of binary thinking. "I could be wrong, you could be wrong, we could both be wrong..." this open thinking is the way. 1
Mike Parrish Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, jross said: It is appreciated that regardless of one's opinion, one does not step into the trap of binary thinking. "I could be wrong, you could be wrong, we could both be wrong..." this open thinking is the way. Not all opinions are created equally. Some are supported by education, experience and evidence. Fauci v Trump, for example. 2
jross Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 "Misdirection?" Yes, I followed your misdirection with my own about how Covid occurred. Why did you bring up Covid to being with? "You seem to be a little too invested in murdering others." Is your own emotion coming into this? "Murder" is not the legal definition of CP. I have contempt for those who freed the MoD more than the resistance against CP. However, had CP been implemented for the MoD, this deranged decision to release him would not have been possible.
Crotalus Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 35 minutes ago, jross said: The cost of incarcerating a criminal for 40 years is ~$1 Million. Add CP, and it's triple that cost. CP is not cost-effective, nor should it be for most situations. To an earlier practical point, for a narrow set of situations with simply unquestionable guilt convictions, the CP process could be streamlined and cost-effective. But what is "unquestionable guilt"? It's not hard to cherry pick a few cases, but how to you write the law to ensures this definition is applied equally, fairly, and never against an innocent person? The legal standard for guilt is "beyond a reasonable doubt", and we know that innocent people are convicted and even put to death on rare occasion, so how are you defining the line where "beyond reasonable doubt" turns to "unquestionable guilt"? And on top of that you want to streamline the process to make it cost effective over life in prison? You don't think that would increase the chance of a mistake? If you can write a law that makes capital punishment cheaper, with 0% error, and can't be abused, I'll hop on board. But I think it'll be a lot more difficult than looking at a few cases and saying "that one fits". 2
Mike Parrish Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone's_ratio
jross Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 19 minutes ago, Mike Parrish said: Not all opinions are created equally. Some are supported by education, experience and evidence. Fauci v Trump, for example. Yes indeed. Some opinions are more well-informed or well-reasoned than others based on a thorough understanding of the facts and evidence. Some opinions may be considered more appropriate or relevant than others on certain topics. I don't value Trump's opinion on many topics, however, I value Trump's opinion on trade policy over Fauci.
Mike Parrish Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, jross said: Yes indeed. Some opinions are more well-informed or well-reasoned than others based on a thorough understanding of the facts and evidence. Some opinions may be considered more appropriate or relevant than others on certain topics. I don't value Trump's opinion on many topics, however, I value Trump's opinion on trade policy over Fauci. I wouldn't https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/05/2020-trade-figures-trump-failure-deficit-466116
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