The Government can’t give someone something without first taking it from someone else

[Wrestleknownothing]

12 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

You’re the one that made the social contract argument jr. 

I did not make the social contract argument. No one can match your gas tank when it comes to being wrong.

[JimmyBT]

3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I did not make the social contract argument. No one can match your gas tank when it comes to being wrong.

Ummmmm you said the social contract we agree to is to buy things we need.  Your words.   

[JimmyBT]

6 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I did not make the social contract argument. No one can match your gas tank when it comes to being wrong.

Usually when people like you tell everyone else they’re wrong it means……. We’ll you can figure it out 

[JimmyBT]

8 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

That's not at all how the tax system works. That is dishonest to insinuate that this fictional story applies to everyone or anyone. 

That it might make you feel better to think that people are stealing from you is not indicative of reality.  That others get riled up about your story is not evidence of its truthfulness. The social contract is that we agree to pay for the things we need. Some pay more because they have benefited the most. We vote for people to make those decisions. If you want to change something, convince me without making appeals to emotion. 

You know that a very small number of rich people 'steal' WAY more of your tax dollars then all the poor combined? Why not tell a story about that? 

Who’s we??  And what exactly do we need ?  

[Wrestleknownothing]

14 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

Ummmmm you said the social contract we agree to is to buy things we need.  Your words.   

You are the king of dumb. Your homework is to find where I said that. I accept your apology in advance.

[Wrestleknownothing]

6 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

Who’s we??  And what exactly do we need ?  

Hint: You just quoted the post from the person who did say it, dumb dumb.

[JimmyBT]

2 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Hint: You just quoted the post from the person who did say it, dumb dumb.

I’m so sorry. I forgot which WOKER I was talking to. Bahahhahahaha

Edited January 11 by JimmyBT

[JimmyBT]

3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

You are the king of dumb. Your homework is to find where I said that. I accept your apology in advance.

[Wrestleknownothing]

10 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

I’m so sorry. I forgot which WOKER I was talking to. Bahahhahahaha

Stubbornly.

Blindingly.

Persistently.

[JimmyBT]

20 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Stubbornly.

Blindingly.

Persistently.

Two out of three ain’t bad  nice job  

 

[WrestlingRasta]

Wait, I thought I was jr??

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Wait, I thought I was jr??

He heard the expression "always in error, never in doubt" and thought "has anyone ever tried always in error?"

[JimmyBT]

2 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Wait, I thought I was jr??

Yep. 

[JimmyBT]

38 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

He heard the expression "always in error, never in doubt" and thought "has anyone ever tried always in error?"

I’m hearing impaired soooooooo 

[JimmyBT]

RastaKnownothing. Nice ring to it 

[ThreePointTakedown]

11 hours ago, JimmyBT said:

Who’s we??  And what exactly do we need ?  

We = society(this shouldn't be too controversial) 

Need = things we agree we can't live without(this is a topic for debate, I'm sure)

As I have mentioned in previous discussions, maybe not with you, but at some periods in our history groups were kept from those conversations(who we allow as members of our society and with what benefits, and what they feel is needed). Those groups had their options to advance and prosper taken or significantly hobbled by those of privilege. Now it is our job to acknowledge those actions and deeds and try to make up for them.

Our culture needs to change so as to include their voices in these conversations. Does it mean that some, who have benefitted from privilege, will see their advantages trimmed a bit? I hope so. Will they be upset about it? Probably(who likes changing the rules of a game you're clearly winning?). Will it end up helping, even the privileged, in the end? Fingers crossed. If it doesn't? I give as much thought to the privilege surviving and thriving, in a new and different political/economic environment, as they have given to the poorest and least privileged. Which is to say not much. 

Different countries, that aren't so hung up on their own meritless exceptionalism(or at least have started coming to terms with their mistakes and have worked to address them), religious fervor(which is pretty toxic if you ask me), or maintaining a cast system(and we, very much, do) have done some interesting things with regards to health care, education, and international relations. In many ways catching and surpassing us in all of those categories. Cue opening monologue from the News Room. It may hurt to admit but we might not be as great a country as we were told when we believed in other sensational things, like Santa. 

Hope this helps to clarify. 

But ya, their explanation of the tax system is wrong. Former Labor Secretary (youtube vid of him explaining where your tax dollars go) Feel free to watch his other videos, they're good and informative. From someone who has experience in the field. If you want to include links to pages or videos that disagree or present contrary info, please add. I would love to learn. 

[JimmyBT]

6 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

We = society(this shouldn't be too controversial) 

Need = things we agree we can't live without(this is a topic for debate, I'm sure)

As I have mentioned in previous discussions, maybe not with you, but at some periods in our history groups were kept from those conversations(who we allow as members of our society and with what benefits, and what they feel is needed). Those groups had their options to advance and prosper taken or significantly hobbled by those of privilege. Now it is our job to acknowledge those actions and deeds and try to make up for them.

Our culture needs to change so as to include their voices in these conversations. Does it mean that some, who have benefitted from privilege, will see their advantages trimmed a bit? I hope so. Will they be upset about it? Probably(who likes changing the rules of a game you're clearly winning?). Will it end up helping, even the privileged, in the end? Fingers crossed. If it doesn't? I give as much thought to the privilege surviving and thriving, in a new and different political/economic environment, as they have given to the poorest and least privileged. Which is to say not much. 

Different countries, that aren't so hung up on their own meritless exceptionalism(or at least have started coming to terms with their mistakes and have worked to address them), religious fervor(which is pretty toxic if you ask me), or maintaining a cast system(and we, very much, do) have done some interesting things with regards to health care, education, and international relations. In many ways catching and surpassing us in all of those categories. Cue opening monologue from the News Room. It may hurt to admit but we might not be as great a country as we were told when we believed in other sensational things, like Santa. 

Hope this helps to clarify. 

But ya, their explanation of the tax system is wrong. Former Labor Secretary (youtube vid of him explaining where your tax dollars go) Feel free to watch his other videos, they're good and informative. From someone who has experience in the field. If you want to include links to pages or videos that disagree or present contrary info, please add. I would love to learn. 

So in this country “we” means anyone here??  Citizen or not? I think this is a fair and simple question. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

7 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

So in this country “we” means anyone here??  Citizen or not? I think this is a fair and simple question. 

Yes. They are allowed to have an opinion on what could be improved upon.

Should they not be included in a conversation? Why or why not?

[JimmyBT]

22 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

We = society(this shouldn't be too controversial) 

Need = things we agree we can't live without(this is a topic for debate, I'm sure)

As I have mentioned in previous discussions, maybe not with you, but at some periods in our history groups were kept from those conversations(who we allow as members of our society and with what benefits, and what they feel is needed). Those groups had their options to advance and prosper taken or significantly hobbled by those of privilege. Now it is our job to acknowledge those actions and deeds and try to make up for them.

Our culture needs to change so as to include their voices in these conversations. Does it mean that some, who have benefitted from privilege, will see their advantages trimmed a bit? I hope so. Will they be upset about it? Probably(who likes changing the rules of a game you're clearly winning?). Will it end up helping, even the privileged, in the end? Fingers crossed. If it doesn't? I give as much thought to the privilege surviving and thriving, in a new and different political/economic environment, as they have given to the poorest and least privileged. Which is to say not much. 

Different countries, that aren't so hung up on their own meritless exceptionalism(or at least have started coming to terms with their mistakes and have worked to address them), religious fervor(which is pretty toxic if you ask me), or maintaining a cast system(and we, very much, do) have done some interesting things with regards to health care, education, and international relations. In many ways catching and surpassing us in all of those categories. Cue opening monologue from the News Room. It may hurt to admit but we might not be as great a country as we were told when we believed in other sensational things, like Santa. 

Hope this helps to clarify. 

But ya, their explanation of the tax system is wrong. Former Labor Secretary (youtube vid of him explaining where your tax dollars go) Feel free to watch his other videos, they're good and informative. From someone who has experience in the field. If you want to include links to pages or videos that disagree or present contrary info, please add. I would love to learn. 

It’s always interesting to me when people say we aren’t as great as we think we and other countries are better.  There a million people a year (that’s the legal ones) trying to get into and America and away from those other countries.  Then add in what’s happening illegally.  Why would that be if it’s not that great here?? 
 

as for the tax system: we already have just under half of the population (those eligible to pay) that doesn’t pay any federal income tax.  

Edited January 11 by JimmyBT

[JimmyBT]

Just now, ThreePointTakedown said:

Yes. They are allowed to have an opinion on what could be improved upon.

Should they not be included in a conversation? Why or why not?

They’re not citizens.  So no. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

Just now, JimmyBT said:

They’re not citizens.  So no. 

Why should they be excluded for that reason? 

[JimmyBT]

Just now, ThreePointTakedown said:

Why should they be excluded for that reason? 

Why shouldn’t they be?  Become a legal citizen and you can have all the say you want. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

Just now, JimmyBT said:

Why shouldn’t they be?  Become a legal citizen and you can have all the say you want. 

I just want to make sure I understand your position. They should only have their opinions heard or considered if they are a citizen of this country. Why should we not take their opinions into account? Might they have some ideas that could work, here?

Should people with work or school visas be heard in conversations like these?

[JimmyBT]

Doesn’t the social contract for this country lean heavily on our constitution?  

[JimmyBT]

1 minute ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

I just want to make sure I understand your position. They should only have their opinions heard or considered if they are a citizen of this country. Why should we not take their opinions into account? Might they have some ideas that could work, here?

Should people with work or school visas be heard in conversations like these?

Unless they’re here legally. No.