Creeps in the wrestling community - What can we do about it?

[flyingcement]

 

[Hammerlock3]

can someone be a little more specific, i don't quite understand whats happening.

[flyingcement]

4 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

can someone be a little more specific, i don't quite understand whats happening.

Two wrestling "photographers" one of whom is an active youth official, take pictures and videos of wrestlers which are suggestive in nature and marketed to similarly evil people 

 

[Dark Energy]

Wow, for a culture that readily ‘cancels’ people, I’m pretty surprised that names are not being used.  
 

- well, just noticed the Midwest wrestle twitter handle.  That must be the ref in question.  Posts don’t look bad but Pyles is saying they have been edited.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Dark Energy

[flyingcement]

1 minute ago, Dark Energy said:

Wow, for a culture that readily ‘cancels’ people, I’m pretty surprised that names are not being used.  

In the case of Flo, they are afraid of a lawsuit I guess? But Willie has named them above.  

[flyingcement]

Cam Kramer (Iowa) and Nima Gharavi (Illinois / Midwest Wrestle)

[Hammerlock3]

3 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

Wow, for a culture that readily ‘cancels’ people, I’m pretty surprised that names are not being used.  

the accusation is so scathing you can sort of understand people trying to let others fill in the blanks, both for purposes of liability and the horror of making such an accusation incorrectly, which i'm not saying is happening. 

[Jason Bryant]

While not in the same realm of scumbaggeery, I once received a cease and desist from a lawyer for going on a FB group warning unsuspecting parents of a wrestling club and travel team that was notorious for scamming tournament directors and parents every few years. That person’s mother got their family lawyer after me, citing I was harassing and bullying them because they were disabled.

Grifters with resources will use the law to threaten anyone interfering in their efforts to scam. Was I right? Yes, but did I want to spend thousands of dollars to prove that fact?

When you call someone out on things like this, the accused parties are ready and able to send their lawyers after you to shut you up.

[Mr. PeanutButter]

Looked up one of these creeps on YouTube. The comments on his videos are real ducking weird. I don't know if that's enough to condemn the guy but I do know that I felt a strange sense of discomfort (putting it mildly) that I never have before while reading comments on a wrestling video. It made me kinda sick to be honest

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

I'm familiar with Midwest Wrestle, as I've sampled his videos of ILLINOIS wrestlers. I gather that on YouTube the videos appeal to a prurient interest.

That's sad because the videos are high quality.

He uses a top notch camera and follows the action around the mat. Here's how to stop that: Flo and BTN and Track and all the other video streaming websites can get better cameras, pay operators to follow the action as it occurs on the mat, produce videos in HD quality, and close comment sections to uploaded videos.

Then, you don't have to worry about individuals who may not have the best interest of the wrestlers running around shooting videos.

As it stands, we have to worry about multi-million-dollar businesses rubbing their lenses with animal fat after scratching them with 80 grit sandpaper making the finished product look like a Bar Mitzvah from 2004.

Is Flo worried about the athletes or the possibility that their audience might demand better production quality?

As for the athletes, if they are uncomfortable, talk to parents, administrators, athletic departments, and club coaches. They'll know a lawyer who can prepare a cease and desist letter, and who can contact YouTube about removal of the relevant video.

[Jason Bryant]

Nothing about this topic is about the quality of the video.

[Idaho]

37 minutes ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

Here's how to stop that: Flo and BTN and Track and all the other video streaming websites can get better cameras, pay operators to follow the action as it occurs on the mat, produce videos in HD quality, and close comment sections to uploaded videos.

Then, you don't have to worry about individuals who may not have the best interest of the wrestlers running around shooting videos.

As it stands, we have to worry about multi-million-dollar businesses rubbing their lenses with animal fat after scratching them with 80 grit sandpaper making the finished product look like a Bar Mitzvah from 2004.

Is Flo worried about the athletes or the possibility that their audience might demand better production quality?

Sounds like you are blaming it on film quality and major wrestling news outlets. Terrible take man. Try selling that to the parents. Like @Jason Bryant said , this isn’t about video quality. 

[flyingcement]

There was another thread in which idiots were saying you should never break the law under any circumstance.  If the authorities are doing nothing about this and someone actually knows this to be true - the right thing to do is to take it into your own hands.  

[Hammerlock3]

10 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

There was another thread in which idiots were saying you should never break the law under any circumstance.  If the authorities are doing nothing about this and someone actually knows this to be true - the right thing to do is to take it into your own hands.  

well the law has to be based on the most general circumstances or it doesn't work, we nuance it the best we can but ultimately there are certainly situations so specific that the law is inadequate. the question becomes at what point allowing private citizens to make this distinction turn into anarchy. 

[flyingcement]

1 minute ago, Hammerlock3 said:

well the law has to be based on the most general circumstances or it doesn't work, we nuance it the best we can but ultimately there are certainly situations so specific that the law is inadequate. the question becomes at what point allowing private citizens to make this distinction turn into anarchy. 

We need practitioners of the law to focus on spirit of the law and use some human judgment.  On the other hand, promotion of blind, letter-of-the-law rule following seems like something that would sow the seeds of anarchy.  If the law can be proven to be more reasonable, anarchy is unnecessary

[Hammerlock3]

1 minute ago, flyingcement said:

We need practitioners of the law to focus on spirit of the law and use some human judgment.  On the other hand, promotion of blind, letter-of-the-law rule following seems like something that would sow the seeds of anarchy.  If the law can be proven to be more reasonable, anarchy is unnecessary

yes of course. the problem becomes when you have to figure out who you'd trust under every circumstance to arbitrate the line between law and common sense. Said person would supercede the law, but likely doesn't exist. I don't mean anything by all this except that its a complex problem. 

[Ohio Elite]

I don't like weird creepy sh*t. Not cool...

[pokemonster]

I skimmed the Midwest wrestle YouTube page and don't quite understand what's wrong with the few videos / posts I saw. They look to be very high quality videos with good sound and followed the action well... and I don't see anything suggestive that any in person fan wouldn't see. Would like for somebody to explain further what's going on. 

The amount of views do seem ridiculous and the comments look to be from people who don't know wrestling... Has he since edited the posts or what? I'm not seeing anything worth the allegations just yet.

On another note, if our sport requires photographers and videographers to blur out, crop, or simply use low quality film equipment due to our uniforms showing too much and therefore attracting creeps, then maybe change the damn uniforms? Or at least require similar cups as the MMA guys use so the creeps can't see what's going on? 

Edited December 31, 2023 by pokemonster

[pokemonster]

5 hours ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

I'm familiar with Midwest Wrestle, as I've sampled his videos of ILLINOIS wrestlers. I gather that on YouTube the videos appeal to a prurient interest.

That's sad because the videos are high quality.

He uses a top notch camera and follows the action around the mat. Here's how to stop that: Flo and BTN and Track and all the other video streaming websites can get better cameras, pay operators to follow the action as it occurs on the mat, produce videos in HD quality, and close comment sections to uploaded videos.

Then, you don't have to worry about individuals who may not have the best interest of the wrestlers running around shooting videos.

As it stands, we have to worry about multi-million-dollar businesses rubbing their lenses with animal fat after scratching them with 80 grit sandpaper making the finished product look like a Bar Mitzvah from 2004.

Is Flo worried about the athletes or the possibility that their audience might demand better production quality?

As for the athletes, if they are uncomfortable, talk to parents, administrators, athletic departments, and club coaches. They'll know a lawyer who can prepare a cease and desist letter, and who can contact YouTube about removal of the relevant video.

You're not wrong. Just watched his Jesse Mendez vs Lucas Byrd match and the quality is great. Don't see any funny business going on? 

[flyingcement]

3 minutes ago, pokemonster said:

You're not wrong. Just watched his Jesse Mendez vs Lucas Byrd match and the quality is great. Don't see any funny business going on? 

The allegations are not that it is an outright porn site.  But that it is a hotspot for those who are interested in seeing high level detail of such things, even if they don't know anything about the sport of wrestling itself.  This has resulted in an unusually high number of views for these videos, several levels of magnitude higher than the comparable video which is not filmed in the same way

Edited December 31, 2023 by flyingcement

[pokemonster]

Just now, flyingcement said:

The allegations are not that it is an outright porn site.  But that it is a hotspot for those who are interesting in seeing high level detail of such things, even if they don't know anything about the sport of wrestling itself.  This has resulted in an unusually high number of views for these videos, several levels of magnitude higher than the comparable video which is not filmed in the same way

That's a shame. So just to be clear, creeps are attracted to his videos because they are higher quality definition and sound? 

[Mr. PeanutButter]

16 minutes ago, pokemonster said:

I skimmed the Midwest wrestle YouTube page and don't quite understand what's wrong with the few videos / posts I saw. They look to be very high quality videos with good sound and followed the action well... and I don't see anything suggestive that any in person fan wouldn't see. Would like for somebody to explain further what's going on. 

The amount of views do seem ridiculous and the comments look to be from people who don't know wrestling... Has he since edited the posts or what? I'm not seeing anything worth the allegations just yet.

On another note, if our sport requires photographers and videographers to blur out, crop, or simply use low quality film equipment due to our uniforms showing too much and therefore attracting creeps, then maybe change the damn uniforms? Or at least require similar cups as the MMA guys use so the creeps can't see what's going on? 

From my perspective, the thumbnails for many of his more popular videos are, at minimum, at the edge of the line. They are HIGHLY suggestive. To see so many of his top videos feature suggestive thumbnails does not feel like a coincidence. 

I do agree with your point about changing uniforms. I have been a proponent of getting away from singlets for many years

[flyingcement]

Just now, pokemonster said:

That's a shame. So just to be clear, creeps are attracted to his videos because they are higher quality definition and sound? 

This is new to me - and I am just relaying the allegations from falling down the rabbit hole of posts on twitter since Allyson Schwab was brave enough to start the conversation.  

But I hadn't even considered the sounds aspect.  I was thinking about the singlet aspect.  I am admittedly naive, but I do have two people very close to me whose lives were destroyed by sexual predators and my heart has always been lit with a vengeful fire since knowing

[MNRodent]

Willie spoke about this on his show, I think last summer.  Very creepy thumbnails with lots of crotch shots of kids.  They have cleaned it up somewhat after getting called out, but still very cringy.

[flyingcement]

5 minutes ago, MNRodent said:

Willie spoke about this on his show, I think last summer.  Very creepy thumbnails with lots of crotch shots of kids.  They have cleaned it up somewhat after getting called out, but still very cringy.