10 point Major?

[CHROMEBIRD]

Pinfell 6, tech 4, major 2, dec 1? Team point deductions could really hurt but w/e.

[Old Dirty]

3 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Disagree.  A major is supposed to show dominance.  IMO you shouldn’t be able to be simultaneously one takedown away from a major but also one move away from losing (outside a pin of course where you are always one move away from losing).

Disagree.  This is one of the most exciting things in sports.  MMA/boxing, You can get out pointed for 12 rounds and get a knockout or submission.  Nascar - one wreck and you can go from 8th place to winning Daytona.  People like upset wins as much if not more than Joe Plummer getting the job done without much risk

[1032004]

26 minutes ago, Old Dirty said:

Disagree.  This is one of the most exciting things in sports.  MMA/boxing, You can get out pointed for 12 rounds and get a knockout or submission.  Nascar - one wreck and you can go from 8th place to winning Daytona.  People like upset wins as much if not more than Joe Plummer getting the job done without much risk

That was always true by being able to be pinned though

[jmoney]

I feel like they should have figured this out before the season. Unless they felt the scoring system for teams-tourneys was more of a sacrosanct tradition. Does anyone know how long the 8 point MD and 15 point TF has been around for ?

[CHROMEBIRD]

21 minutes ago, jmoney said:

I feel like they should have figured this out before the season. Unless they felt the scoring system for teams-tourneys was more of a sacrosanct tradition. Does anyone know how long the 8 point MD and 15 point TF has been around for ?

Wkn or one of the analytics guys probably know this cold, but I think the 15pt tf was introduced in the early 80s, around 1983. IIRC a tech was worth 6, the same as pinfelling an opponent, and there was some debate at the time about techs counting towards Gorriaran Award metrics at Nationals. And weren't techs also adjusted again in the 90s to be 4 points in duals (same as a major)? I think the goal was to incentivize pins. Someone please fact check me here.

[1032004]

2 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Wkn or one of the analytics guys probably know this cold, but I think the 15pt tf was introduced in the early 80s, around 1983. IIRC a tech was worth 6, the same as pinfelling an opponent, and there was some debate at the time about techs counting towards Gorriaran Award metrics at Nationals. And weren't techs also adjusted again in the 90s to be 4 points in duals (same as a major)? I think the goal was to incentivize pins. Someone please fact check me here.

Not sure about any of this, I do believe there was a rule (maybe in the 90’s?) that you needed to have earned nearfall to earn 5 points for a tech

[TylerDurden]

4 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Disagree.  A major is supposed to show dominance.  IMO you shouldn’t be able to be simultaneously one takedown away from a major but also one move away from losing (outside a pin of course where you are always one move away from losing).

At least part of the motivation to increase the value of a takedown was to motivate both wrestlers to pursue takedowns (create action) throughout a match. The situation you described does just that. 

Technical Falls, as opposed to major decisions, show dominance, i.e. technical superiority. Majors reward something short of dominance, but the increased takedown valuation requires a shift in match strategy to either secure or eliminate the eight-point margin. I personally find that much more interesting for the drama and strategic adjustments it requires. 

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 hours ago, jmoney said:

I feel like they should have figured this out before the season. Unless they felt the scoring system for teams-tourneys was more of a sacrosanct tradition. Does anyone know how long the 8 point MD and 15 point TF has been around for ?

1929 - Pinfall, forfeit, default, or DQ worth 1 team point in tournaments

1972 - Superior decision (win by 10+) added and worth 1/2 team point in tournaments

1976 - Superior decision raised to 12+ points and worth 3/4 team point. Major decision added (8 - 11) and worth 1/2 team point in tournaments

1985 - Tech fall (leading by 15+) added and worth 1 team point in tournaments

1988 - Superior decision eliminated and TF team scoring changed to 3/4 point

1995 - Major decision team scoring increased to 1 point. Tech fall eliminated and replaced with Match Termination (leading by 15+) and also worth 1 team point

1995 - Pinfall, forfeit, default, or DQ increased to 2 team points (so from 1985 to 1988 pinfall and tech fall were worth the same)

1997 - Tech fall restored with a back points requirement and worth 1.5 team points. Match termination still exists

Somewhere between 1998 and 2001 the match termination began to also be called tech fall, but the distinction between one with near fall and one without near fall remained. I cannot find these rule books online to confirm the year.

2016 - All tech falls worth 1.5 team points (near fall requirement removed)

Edit: forgot to include pinfall info

Edited January 21 by Wrestleknownothing

[Old Dirty]

3 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Not sure about any of this, I do believe there was a rule (maybe in the 90’s?) that you needed to have earned nearfall to earn 5 points for a tech

This was a rule when I wrestled and coached in college in early 2000's. 

[D3UC157]

What’s the problem with majors being ‘easier’?  
More dual/duel scoring. Reduces the likelihood of team tie scores.

Increased takedown to 3 points for more scoring. Which in turn increases team scoring. Natural link. 
 

Why not make a tech 12 point differential? Getting your doors blown off, let’s end this thing. Move on to the next.

 

[CHROMEBIRD]

1 hour ago, D3UC157 said:

What’s the problem with majors being ‘easier’?  
More dual/duel scoring. Reduces the likelihood of team tie scores.

Increased takedown to 3 points for more scoring. Which in turn increases team scoring. Natural link. 
 

Why not make a tech 12 point differential? Getting your doors blown off, let’s end this thing. Move on to the next.

 

Interestingly when the 15pt tech was introduced, those who opposed it said it would rob the sport of character-building. A guy might be losing, but there's still bragging rights in going the distance against a much tougher wrestler without getting pinfelled. It also deprives fans from seeing their favorite wrestlers pin to win, and conversely, from wrestlers down big on points from working hard and turning things around with a pin. 

[ionel]

15 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Interestingly when the 15pt techfell was introduced, those who opposed it said it would robfell the sport of character-building. A guyfell might be losing, but there's still bragging rights in going the distance against a much tougher wrestler without getting pinfelled. It also deprives fans from seeing their favorite wrestlers pinfell to winfell, and conversely, from wrestlers down bigfell on points from working hard and turning things around with a pinfell. 

fixfelled that forfell you

[CHROMEBIRD]

Just now, ionel said:

fixfelled that forfell you

All good catches, brother   If you and Wkn decide to make PINFELL TO WINFELL t-shirts, sign me up for one!

[ionel]

Just now, CHROMEBIRD said:

All good catches, brother   If you and Wkn decide to make PINFELL TO WINFELL t-shirts, sign me up for one!

We are negotiating contract and shares. 

[CHROMEBIRD]

+ Future NIL deal for Will Pinfelldkamp from ISU