Why do Americans struggle in Greco?

[Formally140]

  On 6/3/2023 at 12:48 AM, DJT said:

The worst part of coaching was watching kids get screwed over and just having to sit there and take it, knowing we’d see the ref the rest of the day, next week, at regionals, at states, etc, and knowing it would only come back to bite my wrestlers in the ass when it was more important. I had a parent flip out on me because his kid got royally screwed, and I didn’t argue with the ref as much as he’d like me to… once I put it that way to him, he calmed down in the stands, too. I’d only really get after refs when they were so bad they put wrestlers in physical danger… then I’d throw stuff.

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Especially if you coach certain places

[Formally140]

  On 6/2/2023 at 11:44 PM, LJB said:

i quit reffing out of state because i was disgusted at how these refs talk about our athletes and coaches behind closed doors...

they want to be a part of the show when all they should be is a vessel to get our best to the next level...

had to take off the whistle first local this year on principle alone...

stopped into the local greco state tourney a week ago and got props from a local ref because me standing up made a difference...

there are levels to this game that most "fans" have no conception of...

but we all play our part, yes?

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I would like to say that it isn’t like that, but most of the better refs I know have pretty much started staying in the local tri state area for similar reasons 

[Mike Parrish]

  On 6/3/2023 at 12:48 AM, DJT said:

The worst part of coaching was watching kids get screwed over and just having to sit there and take it, knowing we’d see the ref the rest of the day, next week, at regionals, at states, etc, and knowing it would only come back to bite my wrestlers in the ass when it was more important. I had a parent flip out on me because his kid got royally screwed, and I didn’t argue with the ref as much as he’d like me to… once I put it that way to him, he calmed down in the stands, too. I’d only really get after refs when they were so bad they put wrestlers in physical danger… then I’d throw stuff.

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My daughter got choked out at Pan Americans in an obvious and intentional JiuJitsu hold.

USAW did not protest.

It's a culture of cowardice.

[DJT]

  On 6/3/2023 at 4:53 AM, Mike Parrish said:

My daughter got choked out at Pan Americans in an obvious and intentional JiuJitsu hold.

USAW did not protest.

It's a culture of cowardice.

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That’s shitty. There is no excuse for a wrestler getting choked completely out. It doesn’t happen that quickly if the ref has any wrestling knowledge.

Not much of a procedure to protest in HS wrestling. I found with bad calls it was always best to wait until breaks in between rounds and have a discussion with the ref, including the head ref in the conversation if necessary. It’s amazing how many times they actually admit they blew a call either because they were out of position or weren’t 100% sure on a rule so let it play out. I’m fine with that, as long as it makes them better. We need more refs and berating them does little to recruit more or help the ones we have improve. Through the years I tried to talk my better wrestlers into getting their officiating license (offered for free by the state association) to make some side cash in college, but they all said they didn’t feel like spending their Saturdays getting yelled at by old fat guys for 12 hours straight.

[Mike Parrish]

  On 6/3/2023 at 5:34 AM, DJT said:

That’s shitty. There is no excuse for a wrestler getting choked completely out. It doesn’t happen that quickly if the ref has any wrestling knowledge.

Not much of a procedure to protest in HS wrestling. I found with bad calls it was always best to wait until breaks in between rounds and have a discussion with the ref, including the head ref in the conversation if necessary. It’s amazing how many times they actually admit they blew a call either because they were out of position or weren’t 100% sure on a rule so let it play out. I’m fine with that, as long as it makes them better. We need more refs and berating them does little to recruit more or help the ones we have improve. Through the years I tried to talk my better wrestlers into getting their officiating license (offered for free by the state association) to make some side cash in college, but they all said they didn’t feel like spending their Saturdays getting yelled at by old fat guys for 12 hours straight.

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Dom was unconscious for 30 seconds on the mat.

[Mike Parrish]

  On 6/3/2023 at 5:36 AM, Mike Parrish said:

Dom was unconscious for 30 seconds on the mat.

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The other refs fist bumped the center ref after the match..........

[DJT]

  On 6/3/2023 at 4:34 AM, Formally140 said:

Especially if you coach certain places

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When I coached, it seemed like there were the same 5-6 refs, no matter where we went… quite a few of them were reffing me when I was in high school 20+ years before, and I thought they were old then. 
 

The only good thing about that is you know how they’re going to call matches. One of the refs, if you broke 45 on your back, he’s probably going to slap the mat, especially if it’s late in the day. Another, you knew he was going to call stalling on whoever was winning in the 3rd without fail. Another, if you put a guy’s arm on his back, he’d call it potentially dangerous almost immediately.

[DJT]

  On 6/3/2023 at 5:38 AM, Mike Parrish said:

The other refs fist bumped the center ref after the match..........

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Disgusting.

[Formally140]

  On 6/3/2023 at 5:51 AM, DJT said:

When I coached, it seemed like there were the same 5-6 refs, no matter where we went… quite a few of them were reffing me when I was in high school 20+ years before, and I thought they were old then. 
 

The only good thing about that is you know how they’re going to call matches. One of the refs, if you broke 45 on your back, he’s probably going to slap the mat, especially if it’s late in the day. Another, you knew he was going to call stalling on whoever was winning in the 3rd without fail. Another, if you put a guy’s arm on his back, he’d call it potentially dangerous almost immediately.

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I was more referring to biases that exist but I’m not in the mood to start a shit storm over stating things that happen. 
 

There’s a ref I was finally able to get black listed from reffing my teams matches because his calls were so unbelievably inconsistent that even other refs had to admit it

[LJB]

  On 6/3/2023 at 12:53 AM, Husker_Du said:

congrats LJB. boy done good today. 

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thanks brother...

the reality is he had to be carried off the mat two weeks ago...

was up 4-0 in his first match at senior trials and got injured...

seeing him on a trainers table absolutely destroyed and breaking down for an hour afterwards was hard...

we had no clue if he would even be able to wrestle yesterday...

3hr round trips everyday to my PT guy who is amazing....

there is so much that goes on in the background with these athletes that most will never know...

i got amazing people all around my kids that help us out in all sorts of ways and it really fills my heart with joy...

even if sometimes i want to kill everyone...

[LJB]

  On 6/3/2023 at 12:30 AM, Plasmodium said:

You quit nationally and locally.  What am I missing?

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i was just being a little salty...

apologies...

[LJB]

  On 6/3/2023 at 4:53 AM, Mike Parrish said:

My daughter got choked out at Pan Americans in an obvious and intentional JiuJitsu hold.

USAW did not protest.

It's a culture of cowardice.

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there are good people in USAW...

unfortunately our leadership can not be included in that statement...

[1032004]

  On 6/3/2023 at 12:30 AM, Plasmodium said:

You quit nationally and locally.  What am I missing?

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Yeah but he did it “on principle”

[LJB]

  On 6/3/2023 at 10:00 AM, 1032004 said:

Yeah but he did it “on principle”

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painfully average...

[DJT]

  On 6/3/2023 at 7:30 AM, Formally140 said:

I was more referring to biases that exist but I’m not in the mood to start a shit storm over stating things that happen. 
 

There’s a ref I was finally able to get black listed from reffing my teams matches because his calls were so unbelievably inconsistent that even other refs had to admit it

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No doubt about biases happening… being the “outside” school traveling to the part of the state where it seems like everyone is related was the worst.

[LJB]

  On 6/3/2023 at 1:30 PM, DJT said:

No doubt about biases happening… being the “outside” school traveling to the part of the state where it seems like everyone is related was the worst.

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i am on the fence about what is worse...

maliciousness or incompetence...

maliciousness is at least consistent and can be mitigated at times...

incompetence has no bounds...

[GnarlyEar]

  On 6/3/2023 at 2:00 PM, LJB said:

i am on the fence about what is worse...

maliciousness or incompetence...

maliciousness is at least consistent and can be mitigated at times...

incompetence has no bounds...

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I’m still confused, so there are no good Greco Roman officials, you left officiating because you were the only good one, you think complaining on an online forum proves your opinion is more right than people who spend more time thinking about that aspect of the sport than you?

 

I’m just so confused by you

[LJB]

  On 6/4/2023 at 4:08 PM, GnarlyEar said:

I’m still confused, so there are no good Greco Roman officials, you left officiating because you were the only good one, you think complaining on an online forum proves your opinion is more right than people who spend more time thinking about that aspect of the sport than you?

 

I’m just so confused by you

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SWING AND A MISS!!!!!

i have never said there were no good greco officials...

i never said exactly why i quit officiating... 

i never claimed was the only good greco official...

and i have never said my opinion was more right than anyone who spends more time thinking about the aspect of the sport than i do...

 

it is adorable how twisted most of you guys get with your suspect egos... 

 

and i have little doubt you spend most of your days in confusion...

i won't hold it against you...

[GnarlyEar]

  On 6/4/2023 at 4:43 PM, LJB said:

SWING AND A MISS!!!!!

i have never said there were no good greco officials...

i never said exactly why i quit officiating... 

i never claimed was the only good greco official...

and i have never said my opinion was more right than anyone who spends more time thinking about the aspect of the sport than i do...

 

it is adorable how twisted most of you guys get with your suspect egos... 

 

and i have little doubt you spend most of your days in confusion...

i won't hold it against you...

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Swing and miss…

 

those were questions, hence the “?”

 

But multiple times on this thread you’ve disparaged the officials, and then added in your own experience officiating.

You called the US officials incompetent (again); and that US refs refuse to learn the sport.

 

So how many of these people are there? 
 

And I believe the famous quote goes, “if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem” and it seems as though you have actively removed yourself from the solution - thus making yourself once again part of the problem.

 

[LJB]

  On 6/4/2023 at 6:15 PM, GnarlyEar said:

Swing and miss…

 

those were questions, hence the “?”

 

But multiple times on this thread you’ve disparaged the officials, and then added in your own experience officiating.

You called the US officials incompetent (again); and that US refs refuse to learn the sport.

 

So how many of these people are there? 
 

And I believe the famous quote goes, “if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem” and it seems as though you have actively removed yourself from the solution - thus making yourself once again part of the problem.

 

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adorable...

so your first total bullshit post was just so you could write this one?

if you want to have a real conversation on this forum then quit hiding behind a screen name...

quit being anonymous and let's have this discussion...

because i am about at the point to tell the people that are asking me privately to not make any more waves because they are concerned about even more reprisals from USAW that i just can not abide by that anymore...

because until the real problems inside of USAW get talked about openly nothing will every change...

so, the ball is in your court GnarlyEar...

either cowboy up or kindly quit with the trite ref white knighting BS...

[GnarlyEar]

  On 6/4/2023 at 7:44 PM, LJB said:

adorable...

so your first total bullshit post was just so you could write this one?

if you want to have a real conversation on this forum then quit hiding behind a screen name...

quit being anonymous and let's have this discussion...

because i am about at the point to tell the people that are asking me privately to not make any more waves because they are concerned about even more reprisals from USAW that i just can not abide by that anymore...

because until the real problems inside of USAW get talked about openly nothing will every change...

so, the ball is in your court GnarlyEar...

either cowboy up or kindly quit with the trite ref white knighting BS...

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So when you get pressed on your words - you totally back off. You don’t actually answer the questions, and your response is that because YOU don’t know my name on this forum that you’re unwilling to have a productive conversation with me? You just want to curse and rant, ok. 

 

That’s one way to go - I’m saying all of your comments about officials are bullshit because you couldn’t even hack it as one you f***ing quitter. 
 

Now that I’ve responded in kind, you’ll see me with a whistle this summer and I’ll be sure to let you know who I am. 

[LJB]

  On 6/5/2023 at 1:41 PM, GnarlyEar said:

So when you get pressed on your words - you totally back off. You don’t actually answer the questions, and your response is that because YOU don’t know my name on this forum that you’re unwilling to have a productive conversation with me? You just want to curse and rant, ok. 

 

That’s one way to go - I’m saying all of your comments about officials are bullshit because you couldn’t even hack it as one you f***ing quitter. 
 

Now that I’ve responded in kind, you’ll see me with a whistle this summer and I’ll be sure to let you know who I am. 

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keep making your bullshit posts full of all your silly assumptions...

you are a coward...

that does not make you unique at all specifically on the googlewebs...

 

[GnarlyEar]

  On 6/5/2023 at 1:46 PM, LJB said:

keep making your bullshit posts full of all your silly assumptions...

you are a coward...

that does not make you unique at all specifically on the googlewebs...

 

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I’m a coward for calling you out and not wanting to hear anything from “my bosses” by putting my first and last name on an internet forum? Ok, I’ll eat that. You’ll see me in person and I’ll be anxious to see if you have the same hutzpah to be aggressive and curse like you are on the internet. 

At least I’m not a quitter, talking shit on people that are doing a job i’m unable or unwilling to do. 
 

You have to live with being less than… have a good day 

[LJB]

  On 6/5/2023 at 3:15 PM, GnarlyEar said:

I’m a coward for calling you out and not wanting to hear anything from “my bosses” by putting my first and last name on an internet forum? Ok, I’ll eat that. You’ll see me in person and I’ll be anxious to see if you have the same hutzpah to be aggressive and curse like you are on the internet. 

At least I’m not a quitter, talking shit on people that are doing a job i’m unable or unwilling to do. 
 

You have to live with being less than… have a good day 

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stop you coward...

no one who isn't man enough to put their name on themselves get to make any demands of me...

go back to your rock where the other cowards hang out during the daylight hours...

[Fudge Tunnel]