285 Tiers Discussion, 2023-2024 InterMat Edition

[nhs67]

3 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

Maybe just make twenty three tiers.

I am a fan of five.  I started with that.  I am okay with six in this scenario.

We discussed and have grown it to here.

[MPhillips]

5 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I am a fan of five.  I started with that.  I am okay with six in this scenario.

We discussed and have grown it to here.

Good work.

[bnwtwg]

Nevills' peak is bloodround. Not bad, not great, will benefit from a depressed field at 285 comparatively speaking. 6 spots are consumed by Kerk-Hendrickson-Schultz-Cass-Davison-Elam. Anything else is up to the bracket gods.

 

 

1 hour ago, 82bordeaux said:

he was a 4 time California State Champ

Hi would you like Max Renteria to be your 125? I'll take your 125 kegger if you take my 125 pounder

[feet2back]

Definite sleeper at 285lbs..Now at Rutgers

https://gocrimson.com/sports/wrestling/roster/yaraslau-slavikouski/25622

[hawkguy]

9 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I could see that.  I just don't see him losing to any TIER 5 guy, so that is my justification.

What do your tiers look like?

Probably very similar to yours lmao. Just not big on putting guys places until I see results. Plus I could see him losing to trephan, pitzer, or maybe even Nevills/luffman

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, feet2back said:

Definite sleeper at 285lbs..Now at Rutgers

https://gocrimson.com/sports/wrestling/roster/yaraslau-slavikouski/25622

He hasn't been a sleeper for years.

[nhs67]

13 minutes ago, hawkguy said:

Probably very similar to yours lmao. Just not big on putting guys places until I see results. Plus I could see him losing to trephan, pitzer, or maybe even Nevills/luffman

Well the beauty of them is these are my tiers.  I am open to being convinced otherwise, but I don't have enough evidence to make me think Feldman isn't going to be Tier 3 (now Tier 4) right out the gate.

Technically I did drop him to Tier 4 now, though.

Joke aside, I know ranking services don't take outside results in to account (Freestyle, Exhibitions, etc), however Feldman demolished Catka and in two straight when he (Feldman) was fresh out of high school.  I am okay putting him there based on that.

[nhs67]

Also gents... lets see what you guys have for tiers?  I want to hear 'em.

You can even base your tiers differently.

Keep in mind when looking at mine... I wouldn't be surprised to see gents in adjacent tiers beating the piss out of each other or calling them toss-ups, depending on the matchup.  A tier 5 could beat a 4 then that 4 beat a 3 and I wouldn't be surprised.  I would be surprised if that 5 beat that 3, though, and a match between that 3 and 5 would show that.

[1032004]

7 hours ago, VakAttack said:

No, but then I wouldn't be shocked if Cass beat Kerkvliet again.  I wouldn't pick it or wager money on it, but the previous results have happened, and it's more than one.  Plus, if the rule change go into effect about top wrestling, Kerkvliet among other Penn State guys is going to have to figure out the top wrestling "sit on the ankle situation".

I would kinda be shocked if Cassioppi ever beats Kerkvliet again, TBH

[MPhillips]

1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

Also gents... lets see what you guys have for tiers?  I want to hear 'em.

You can even base your tiers differently.

You've done the work already brother. Folks are now onto the, 'critique.'

 

[nhs67]

8 hours ago, nhs67 said:

- TIER 1 -
Kerkvliet, Penn State
Hendrickson, Air Force

- TIER 2 -
Cassioppi, Iowa

- TIER 3 -
Davison, Michigan

- TIER 4 -
Slavikouski, Rutgers
Elam, Mizzou
Fernandez, Cornell
Bastida, Iowa State
Schultzy, Arizona State
Feldman, the Ohio State

- TIER 5 -
Luffman, Illinois
Pitzer, Pittsburgh
Nevills, Maryland
Griess, Navy
Ghadali, Campbell
Taylor, Lehigh
Amos, Wisconsin
Gordon, Northern Iowa
Catka, Virginia Tech
Trephan, NC State

- TIER 6 -
Doucet, Oklahoma State
Wolfgram, West Viriginia
Bullock, Indiana
Heindselman, Oklahoma
Niesenbaum, Duke
Copass, Purdue

Added Amos to Tier 5.

[TylerDurden]

On 5/23/2023 at 9:00 AM, nhs67 said:

Greetings All,

@82bordeauxbrings up a good point in this thread.

I am curious what people's opinions on tiers for next season are.

The way I envision a tier system to be is that you can have a good competitive series with someone in your tier and your adjacent tiers.  You typically get  controlled or dominated by gents two or more tiers up and you control or dominate gents two or more tiers down from you.

Now there are 'fluke' matches which tend to be outliers.  Those are typically highlighted by a big move for big points, a Pinfall, or an injury.  In a tiers list, we don't include those.  Someone who wins a 1-0/2-0 match can also be two tiers up on someone as well - styles make matches.

So here is what I have for HWT, I am curious what everybody else's opinions are.  I did these pretty quick, and am flexible to move some gents up and down.  Pitzer was the perplexing one, to me.  I really wanted to split Tier 3 up, however a good way to look at it is I would favor the Tier 3 guys over each of the Tier 5 guys.

- TIER 1 -
Kerkvliet, Penn State
Hendrickson, Air Force

- TIER 2 -
Cassioppi, Iowa
Davison, Michigan
Schultzy, Arizona State

- TIER 3 -
Slavikouski, Rutgers
Elam, Mizzou
Pitzer, Pittsburgh
Fernandez, Cornell
Bastida, Iowa State
Feldman, the Ohio State

- TIER 4 -
Luffman, Illinois
Nevills, Maryland
Griess, Navy
Ghadali, Campbell
Taylor, Lehigh
Gordon, Northern Iowa
Catka, Virginia Tech
Trephan, NC State

- TIER 5 -
Doucet, Oklahoma State
Wolfgram, West Viriginia
Bullock, Indiana
Heindselman, Oklahoma
Niesenbaum, Duke
Copass, Purdue

Are we sure Doucet is going to be the starter this year for Oklahoma State? Isn't Christian Carroll ready to go? 

[creek chub]

I’m biased but think Catka will jump a tier or two next season. He wrestled a pretty tough schedule and lost a bunch of 1 point matches against top tier guys. 

[nhs67]

5 hours ago, TylerDurden said:

Are we sure Doucet is going to be the starter this year for Oklahoma State? Isn't Christian Carroll ready to go? 

I think he slots in at the same spot as Doucet for now.  I am open to moving him up once he faces actual collegr competition Tiers 1-5 and does something.

5 hours ago, creek chub said:

I’m biased but think Catka will jump a tier or two next season. He wrestled a pretty tough schedule and lost a bunch of 1 point matches against top tier guys. 

He definitely has the potential to move up.  He just has not taken that next step (yet).  He was 1W-7L in 1/2 point matches last season.  The win was against Whitman (who I am a big fan of actually) and the losses were still losses in which he has never beaten the other opponent before, so they don't really matter until he does get a DUB against one/some if them.  I am okay if he proves me wrong this season.