LJB Posted June 1, 2023 Posted June 1, 2023 Just now, mspart said: Interesting perspective. I would still like to see it. mspart it is not just a "perspective"... it is the truth... people who do not understand greco seem to think it is sub-standard and could be filled with the women's style also rans... that is not even the case domestically and has proven many times over... the question is akin to postulating that a hall of fame receiver could just become a hall of fame lineman just because he is good at "football"... 1
LJB Posted June 1, 2023 Posted June 1, 2023 the reality is, it is easier to compete in the women's style as a greco guy than the other way around... much easier... provisor filled in for cox several years ago at pan ams after cox was unable to compete... provisor had taken bronze in greco earlier that tourney at 87kg... he wrestled up at 92kg and totally smashed the field... watching the prima donnas have no clue how to handle the brutality of the typicalk greco wrestler was endlessly amusing to me... none of them could stay in bounds... constant whining to the ref about the physicality... it was not even a little bit competitive...
LJB Posted June 1, 2023 Posted June 1, 2023 an amusing story that illustrates this... most of you guys probably think i am just this way on the internet, but, you would be sadly mistaken... i am exactly the same everywhere i go and to anyone... at vegas i am sitting in the coronado cafe with my younger son and one of my "adopted" sons after U20 weigh ins waiting on my oldest to get there... we were cutting up making fun of the women's style just awful par terre skills with some volume and a table with a "coach/parent" and an athlete were getting visibly aggravated... my "adopted" son was getting a little worried while i was laughing harder and harder... then my older son showed up... he is a true psycho and does not GAF at all... he starts in about how a couple of months earlier (he was still 19 at the time) at one of the OTC camps the greco and free guys were doing a par terre "practice" together... a well know multiple time D1 AA, world gold medalist and multiple time silver medalist and a tokyo bronze would not practice with him at all... literally ran away... then my kid started yelling at him during practice... verbally assaulting him... then they went live and my kid teched this guy with guts in about 20 seconds... and that is the reality... then cornella came over and sat down with us and the other table just had to chill out because they realized we were not just shit talking...
Threadkilla Posted June 1, 2023 Posted June 1, 2023 3 hours ago, LJB said: an amusing story that illustrates this... most of you guys probably think i am just this way on the internet, but, you would be sadly mistaken... i am exactly the same everywhere i go and to anyone... at vegas i am sitting in the coronado cafe with my younger son and one of my "adopted" sons after U20 weigh ins waiting on my oldest to get there... we were cutting up making fun of the women's style just awful par terre skills with some volume and a table with a "coach/parent" and an athlete were getting visibly aggravated... my "adopted" son was getting a little worried while i was laughing harder and harder... then my older son showed up... he is a true psycho and does not GAF at all... he starts in about how a couple of months earlier (he was still 19 at the time) at one of the OTC camps the greco and free guys were doing a par terre "practice" together... a well know multiple time D1 AA, world gold medalist and multiple time silver medalist and a tokyo bronze would not practice with him at all... literally ran away... then my kid started yelling at him during practice... verbally assaulting him... then they went live and my kid teched this guy with guts in about 20 seconds... and that is the reality... then cornella came over and sat down with us and the other table just had to chill out because they realized we were not just shit talking... You mentioned Provisor mauling the field up a weight in Freestyle. Accordingly, If your kid being a greco specialist beat Gilman easily in Par Terre "practice" . Gilman who is obviously our World Team Rep. with several medals. Is your son competative in Freestyle? I know he is a monster in Greco.
LJB Posted June 1, 2023 Posted June 1, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Threadkilla said: You mentioned Provisor mauling the field up a weight in Freestyle. Accordingly, If your kid being a greco specialist beat Gilman easily in Par Terre "practice" . Gilman who is obviously our World Team Rep. with several medals. Is your son competative in Freestyle? I know he is a monster in Greco. My oldest went to Fargo twice… lost one year to suspension from COUSAW and another to the boogie bug… has 2 smaller stop signs AAing in the women’s style and one big one winning Greco… my younger quit all leg grabbing as a freshmen after being a state finalist, but, 4 months after went 17-0 at junior duals wrestling up still a cadet… after a year and a half of absolutely no leg grabbing he didn’t do as well when forced to wrestle the women’s style when a kid didn’t show up… he did convinced to show up for state his sophomore year to fill a hole after blowing out his knee training Greco full time… 8 weeks on the couch then 3 weeks to lose 25+lbs of shit weight for state… took 4th… they were both succesful in all 3 styles coming up as youths… younger placed at Tulsa last 5Xs he went… several times in the finals all at his walk around… older 4X state placer all as a problem child… won preseason or postseason nationals once… they just prefer Greco… Edited June 1, 2023 by LJB 1
mspart Posted June 1, 2023 Posted June 1, 2023 Those are great anecdotes. I'd still like to see Gable give it a try. He may have been exposed to some GR training in MN where they had a strong GR record of accomplishment. mspart
LJB Posted June 1, 2023 Posted June 1, 2023 15 minutes ago, mspart said: Those are great anecdotes. I'd still like to see Gable give it a try. He may have been exposed to some GR training in MN where they had a strong GR record of accomplishment. mspart What exactly is it about his style that you think would translate to Greco?
mspart Posted June 1, 2023 Posted June 1, 2023 Would it not be interesting to witness? Maybe he would flop. Maybe not. It would be interesting to see. I agree GR has different skill sets. But he may be able to do both, others have in the past. mspart
LJB Posted June 1, 2023 Posted June 1, 2023 8 minutes ago, mspart said: Would it not be interesting to witness? Maybe he would flop. Maybe not. It would be interesting to see. I agree GR has different skill sets. But he may be able to do both, others have in the past. mspart So… you think just because he is the best in the world at the women’s style he would automatically rule Greco? that’s all I am hearing… You should really watch more international Greco… it is not what you have been told it is…
LJB Posted June 1, 2023 Posted June 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, 1032004 said: I think Nickal would rule Greco Why?
1032004 Posted June 1, 2023 Posted June 1, 2023 1 minute ago, LJB said: Why? Because he does more than just “grab legs” - I would agree because of that I’m skeptical Steveson would
LJB Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 4 minutes ago, 1032004 said: Because he does more than just “grab legs” - I would agree because of that I’m skeptical Steveson would He was too wild and improvisational in the stall fest style to be effective in high level Greco… we are talking millimeters of space in high level international Greco… not to say he could not have been successful had he chosen it… just that just because he was not a boring folk style wrestler does not equal Greco success…
Threadkilla Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 19 minutes ago, LJB said: He was too wild and improvisational in the stall fest style to be effective in high level Greco… we are talking millimeters of space in high level international Greco… not to say he could not have been successful had he chosen it… just that just because he was not a boring folk style wrestler does not equal Greco success… I know you are much more of an expert on the subject than I am but I see nothing about Bo's style that is a stall fest. I'm curious to see how often he was called for stalling in his career. I think his upper body skillset translates well to Greco. Dake as well. Also, Bilyal MAKHOV was a three time world champ in Freestyle and was the top ranked Russian and their greco worlds rep. once or twice in the past decade. What makes him so much different than someone like Gable who is a freak athlete with an exceptionally high wrestling IQ?
LJB Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, Threadkilla said: I know you are much more of an expert on the subject than I am but I see nothing about Bo's style that is a stall fest. I'm curious to see how often he was called for stalling in his career. I think his upper body skillset translates well to Greco. Dake as well. Also, Bilyal MAKHOV was a three time world champ in Freestyle and was the top ranked Russian and their greco worlds rep. once or twice in the past decade. What makes him so much different than someone like Gable who is a freak athlete with an exceptionally high wrestling IQ? Ugh… read what I wrote… bo did not stall… he excelled by being improvisational in the stall fest style… 1
BuckyBadger Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 @LJB I generally agree with you that Greco is just not well understood and very under appreciated for its nuances and complexity in this country. But I probably differ in that most high level Greco guys will get schooled in Freestyle in the same way you describe Freestyle guys getting schooled in Greco. You might say that the physicality and brutality of Greco is at another level, but there is a trade off. There are so many more ways to get exposure in freestyle. It emphasizes a different skill set. They are simply different sports. Not an apples to apples comparison. 2
LJB Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, BuckyBadger said: @LJB I generally agree with you that Greco is just not well understood and very under appreciated for its nuances and complexity in this country. But I probably differ in that most high level Greco guys will get schooled in Freestyle in the same way you describe Freestyle guys getting schooled in Greco. You might say that the physicality and brutality of Greco is at another level, but there is a trade off. There are so many more ways to get exposure in freestyle. It emphasizes a different skill set. They are simply different sports. Not an apples to apples comparison. 100% which is why you will never hear me say a high level Greco guy could just stroll into the women’s style and win… they are 100% different sports and one is not inherently superior to the other… 1
BAC Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 22 hours ago, LJB said: a well know multiple time D1 AA, world gold medalist and multiple time silver medalist and a tokyo bronze would not practice with him at all... literally ran away... then my kid started yelling at him during practice... verbally assaulting him... then they went live and my kid teched this guy with guts in about 20 seconds... and that is the reality... LOL this has to be the most absurd thing I've ever read in these forums. You're alleging that Thomas freaking Gilman was SO terrified of your high-school-aged kid that he "literally" ran away to avoid having to wrestle him, then was "verbally assaulted" by your high schooler in practice for being SO afraid... and then got teched by your kid in 20 seconds? LOL oh yeah I'm sure that's the "reality"... 2
LJB Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 6 minutes ago, BAC said: LOL this has to be the most absurd thing I've ever read in these forums. You're alleging that Thomas freaking Gilman was SO terrified of your high-school-aged kid that he "literally" ran away to avoid having to wrestle him, then was "verbally assaulted" by your high schooler in practice for being SO afraid... and then got teched by your kid in 20 seconds? LOL oh yeah I'm sure that's the "reality"... not in HS... it happened it is very typical in par terre practices between greco athletes and the women's sport athletes... sorry to burst your bubble...
BAC Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 17 minutes ago, LJB said: not in HS... it happened it is very typical in par terre practices between greco athletes and the women's sport athletes... sorry to burst your bubble... 1 1
LJB Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 thinking back, i am pretty sure my 17 year old turned him in a gut once at the same camp as well... i could be misremembering that one... some of you "fans" do not have any real clue about the realities of wrestling...
BAC Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, LJB said: thinking back, i am pretty sure my 17 year old turned him in a gut once at the same camp as well... i could be misremembering that one... some of you "fans" do not have any real clue about the realities of wrestling... Are you sure? I heard Gilman was absolutely mortified at the prospect of a harrowing encounter with your younger son too, and was hiding behind the throw dummy all practice to avoid him. Or was your younger kid also able to verbally berate Glman enough that Gilman finally broke, put his tail between his legs, and slow-walked back to the mat to sheepishly succumb to his inevitable fate? Edited June 2, 2023 by BAC 2
LJB Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 34 minutes ago, BAC said: Are you sure? I heard Gilman was absolutely mortified at the prospect of a harrowing encounter with your younger son too, and was hiding behind the throw dummy all practice to avoid him. Or was your younger kid also able to verbally berate Glman enough that Gilman finally broke, put his tail between his legs, and slow-walked back to the mat to sheepishly succumb to his inevitable fate? you are adorable... i know your hero worship will not allow yourself to understand the realities of wrestling... trust me when i say i don't think any less of you...
LJB Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 just remember... you are the one claiming gill man was "scared"... those are your words... i imagine it is an emotion you are very familiar with...
BAC Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 I'm just busting your nuggets brother, no need to get salty But omg thanks for the laugh this morning, I needed that!
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