True that one of Iowa's biggest donor is one who pushed for the Ferraris?

[DJT]

9 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

We have to remember that ‘innocent until proven guilty’ is in the eyes of the law. And we see people get off of crimes they oh so obviously committed because of technicalities all the time. We do this, in law, intentionally making it difficult to convict a guilty person, under the philosophy that we’d rather let four guilty people walk, than convict an innocent man. Again, in the eyes of the law. 
 

Individuals can see a case with their own eyes, and make their own decisions accordingly. 

While I completely understand what you’re saying, the problem with that mentality lies in where does your presumption of guilt begin? The accusation? Arrest? Filing of charges? Plea bargain? Adjudication with which you disagree?
 

It’s such a slippery slope, and to say you’ll “see the case with your own eyes,” means you’ll be seeing a very small snippet of the facts and overall picture. What is in the media is completely agenda driven, whether by corporate or what the prosecutor allows to be known (back to the probable cause affidavit). Hell, most of the time the jury doesn’t even get all of the facts to form their own opinion based on the whole picture.

Again, don’t take this as me defending Focus… I couldn’t care less if he never wrestled again. 

[billyhoyle]

18 minutes ago, DJT said:

While I completely understand what you’re saying, the problem with that mentality lies in where does your presumption of guilt begin? The accusation? Arrest? Filing of charges? Plea bargain? Adjudication with which you disagree?
 

It’s such a slippery slope, and to say you’ll “see the case with your own eyes,” means you’ll be seeing a very small snippet of the facts and overall picture. What is in the media is completely agenda driven, whether by corporate or what the prosecutor allows to be known (back to the probable cause affidavit). Hell, most of the time the jury doesn’t even get all of the facts to form their own opinion based on the whole picture.

Again, don’t take this as me defending Focus… I couldn’t care less if he never wrestled again. 

It's really not a slippery slope like you're making it out to be.  There is one standard of evidence required to lock somebody up.  The standard required for the University of Iowa and its wrestling program is what they deem sufficient to know somebody doesn't belong within their community. That latter standard can be significantly lower than the requirement of criminal cases. The evidence will come out during the court proceedings, and regardless of the verdict, people can make their own judgments on the matter.  

Why does it make sense this way? Well, letting somebody with a history of being accused of sexual battery is opening up your university to lawsuits. The standard for a civil case is lower than a criminal one, so that is the standard that would be applied to any university that brings somebody accused of this crime on campus.  

Edited May 13, 2023 by billyhoyle

[Offthemat]

Although I’ve heard little of the details of this case, you do realize that a pat on the bum can lead to sexual assault charges, right?

[DJT]

1 hour ago, billyhoyle said:

It's really not a slippery slope like you're making it out to be.  There is one standard of evidence required to lock somebody up.  The standard required for the University of Iowa and its wrestling program is what they deem sufficient to know somebody doesn't belong within their community. That latter standard can be significantly lower than the requirement of criminal cases. The evidence will come out during the court proceedings, and regardless of the verdict, people can make their own judgments on the matter.  

Why does it make sense this way? Well, letting somebody with a history of being accused of sexual battery is opening up your university to lawsuits. The standard for a civil case is lower than a criminal one, so that is the standard that would be applied to any university that brings somebody accused of this crime on campus.  

I don’t think we’re really in disagreement. Schools definitely have a different standard, and Title IX requires (or at least encourages) schools to treat men accused of sexual harassment/assault as guilty until proven innocent. (See Quentin Cephus case at University of Wisconsin… kicked off the football team, kicked out of school, proven in court the accusation was a wholesale lie.)

Regardless of the sexual assault charges, there are plenty of other reasons to keep him away from your program (and daughters).

[Mike Parrish]

42 minutes ago, DJT said:

I don’t think we’re really in disagreement. Schools definitely have a different standard, and Title IX requires (or at least encourages) schools to treat men accused of sexual harassment/assault as guilty until proven innocent. (See Quentin Cephus case at University of Wisconsin… kicked off the football team, kicked out of school, proven in court the accusation was a wholesale lie.)

Regardless of the sexual assault charges, there are plenty of other reasons to keep him away from your program (and daughters).

I'm honestly surprised some midwestern father-o-daughters hasn't taken his damned head off with a 12 gauge yet.

[WrestlingRasta]

2 hours ago, DJT said:

While I completely understand what you’re saying, the problem with that mentality lies in where does your presumption of guilt begin? The accusation? Arrest? Filing of charges? Plea bargain? Adjudication with which you disagree?
 

It’s such a slippery slope, and to say you’ll “see the case with your own eyes,” means you’ll be seeing a very small snippet of the facts and overall picture. What is in the media is completely agenda driven, whether by corporate or what the prosecutor allows to be known (back to the probable cause affidavit). Hell, most of the time the jury doesn’t even get all of the facts to form their own opinion based on the whole picture.

Again, don’t take this as me defending Focus… I couldn’t care less if he never wrestled again. 

I think to answer your question, if I were in a position of deciding to offer (job, scholarship, whatever) this kind of case…my presumption of guilt, if at all, would begin after digging well past social media information.  Result of case would be a factor but not only factor. 

[jackwebster]

11 hours ago, Offthemat said:

Although I’ve heard little of the details of this case, you do realize that a pat on the bum can lead to sexual assault charges, right?

This doesn't seem to be what happened here. His response to the accusations are still more damning.