Hammerlock3

thank you

what have I said in this topic that leads you to think i'm setting you up for a cheap joke or argumentative ploy..... but whatever you can ignore that question yes I am curious.

I'm trying to leverage against my own bias, but who is the thought leader of the "free palestine" movement. Who is their smartest representative.

i do give @uncle bernard props for fighting this battle essentially alone. Its not easy dealing with 3 people at a time.

TRUST ME HE IS NOT GOING TO I TRIED FOR 2 DAYS

when uncle bernard conducts these wars against potentially suicidal, certainly genocidal maniacs who are willing to hide behind their own children in densely populated urban environments he just acts really nice and it all works out.

no you don't support anyone in this conflict except the rapey side. you like rape.

I'm gonna argue like you now. why are you pro-rape?

in the sense that its horrific and terrible and I wish it hadn't happened? of course. in the sense that it was the product of Israel chalking up casualties for fun? no

alright thank you. @uncle bernard due to my semantic ignorance, my post about your use of the term "indiscriminate targeting" was completely wrong. This does not mean I accept the premise that Israel is conducting the war in an unethical way in the context of an urban war against an enemy that is thrilled to blow themselves and their children up.

ok might learn something here, so good faith question, is the terminology you are using established in some sort of military community?

i don't think they ever did. I know kolat went to senior nationals looking for him but I think he lost to chandler (msu coach?) before then. My take on that without going into match analysis, is that wrestling is really hard and sometimes stuff doesn't work out. His total body of work though seems like it was an anachronism.

sorry for the 2nd goodbye but couldn't resist. You used the term "indiscriminately target", which is an oxymoron and makes no sense. Why speak incoherently? Because you couldn't say they are "targeting" civilians because there is no evidence of that, you just like implying it.

i read #2 and stopped. this discussion is not in good faith. Good luck.

As far as high school goes kolat was one. The top kids now are great obviously but there is like 1/2 dozen of em, from what I can tell kolat wildly out of proportion.

then you don't know anything about warfare.

so you clearly think Israel has to fight wars differently than any other country....hard to think of a justification for this beyond the obvious.

ok so your the guy who makes stuff up and then pretends you were laughing at it to add authenticity. cool.

2) By the standards you'd hold them to no moral power could win a war against an immoral one. We do hold our allies to higher standards than terrorist groups. Which is obvious. 3) you're flatly wrong in your last paragraph. Everyone supporting Israel laments the civilian casualties, thank god its not israel thats causing them. If you don't support israel or hamas, who do you support in this conflict? Innocent civilians? You're not doing anything for them by validating the use of them as human shields. That game iterates extremely poorly.

you have to address what I said not just say "old lady" twice.

I used to be a "speak softly and carry a big stick" guy, but these days I'm more of a "Loudly grunt with hushed tone and absurd dramatic pause and then don't do shit" guy.

As ugly as the visual is I'm gonna stick up for the officer: 1) Its easy to isolate that image and say the cop is a fascist, but you need to take into account the difficulty of being a police officer in the middle of a riot when you have every reason to assume you and your colleagues are in danger. 2)Every interaction a cop has is potentially lethal because they have a gun which could be taken away from them, they can't allow any physical escalation including a woman who wasn't asking a serious question just harassing a cop by screaming at and then touching him. 3) Once a cop detains you your in idiot if you don't comply. That woman shouldn't have resisted once she was being detained, and if she was innocent there is every reason to think she'd be acquitted. This is a temporary submission of rights but that's what we have to delegate to police if we expect them to put themselves in danger.

2) Point two, its illegal to use human shields in combat, not to protect yourself from those using them. The idea that israel soldiers should do a lot more room to room fighting to be nicer is a standard no other military on earth has been held to. 3 I hope you'll believe that I could think of a bunch of grisly hypotheticals that would completely undermine israel's war effort, but i think generating it and having you sift through it would be a waste of time, unless you just insist. Proportion in warfare is defined by whether a parties actions are in proportion to their goals(assuming the goals are legitimate). I don't see any evidence that Israel has unjustified goals or is doing anything out of proportion with them. And again, 100% of the civilian casualities are caused by Hamas. You don't have to keep saying that you don't support hamas, its a genocidal terrorist organization and I wouldn't accuse you of supporting them directly.

Sure looked like she grabbed the cop to me, couldn't see because her left hand was obscured by her own body. BTW if you abandon every thread of conversation that develops in this topic (particularly when it seems like a good time to refine your opinion or even institute a small change of policy), and then just start over with whatever the latest narrative appropriate video clip you can find, I'm not sure why you're here at all. You complain about the conversation not being nuanced but whenever it might become nuanced you throw a smoke bomb and start over.

keep in mind....he's the only one getting younger.