Smsu150

Charlie Getty was an AA in wrestling in the 1970's. He had a long career in the NFL playing for the Chiefs and Packers. He spent some time as high school football and wrestling coach in Missouri in the late 1990's.

During the early part of his tenure at Mizzou, Coach Smith had a lot of success with mid-tier recruits or with guys that really weren't on anyone's radar outside of the the state or bordering states. He had several walk-ons that became AA's, most notably Mark Ellis, who he recruited off the football team. Ellis was a multiple time AA and national champ. As the program got better, Mizzou began to get more top tier recruits E.g.: Cox, O'Toole, Elam Coach Smith has also had a lot of success with home-grown talent over the years. Some of those, such as national champ Drake Houdershelt, had little fan fair outside of the state prior tot their arrival at Mizzou.

Based on your assessment, there is only one elite program. Or did I miss something?

ISU making room for Cael, only to have him leave had to sting.

Oklahoma was close in 1982. They had three individual champions and a runner-up. "Dr. Death" Steve Williams lost in the heavyweight title match to Bruce Baumgardner 4 - 2. The Schultz brothers and Andre Metzger claimed titles for the Sooners. However, the Sooners finished 3rd in the team standings that year behind Iowa and Iowa State.

Cody Brewer was seeded, but 13th. Not sure what year they started seeding more than 12. Brewer had only one loss and was a returning AA, but still seeded 13th. He went on to dominate the weight.

Just guessing, but I know the 84 Olympic team had 4 Hawkeyes, but I'm not sure if they were all in college at the same time. Maybe 1981. Maybe Iowa State 1970.

The topic has been discussed before. I was in college when ND got dropped and we wrestled against ND in our regional. The story was the program was dropped in order to avoid an NCAA probe of the athletic program. The wrestling program had commuted some "minor" NCAA infractions and the NCAA used that as an excuse to drop the program therefore warding off the probe that was to take place. It was a self-funded program, as was another Catholic school, Marquette, which dropped around 2001. Both of those schools competed in the West Region at the time. The ND roster was filled with top high school recruits, but their success in regards to AA's was limited. However, JJ McGrew, who was on the last ND team, transferred to Okie State and won a national title. Steve King was another guy on the final ND that transferred and earned AA status at Michigan. There may have been a few others.

The only thing I take issue with that the Brands brothers arrived at Iowa during Gable's "peak of dominance." At this time the Hawks recently had their 9 year winning streak broken and would not win the title again for another three years, it was the Brands brothers, amoungst others, that helped return Iowa to dominance. Alan Fried was the most hyped wrestler I can remember for that era. He was the first to win Jr. National Freestyle 4X, and typically did so in dominating fashion.

NAIA rules would be away around. Not sure the NCAA would go for that.

Marquette was privately funded as well. The ND situation had to do with NCAA violations that occurred with their wrestling program. The NCAA wanted to use this as an excuse to probe the whole athletic department, particularly one program, the school panicked and dropped wrestling to get the NCAA off their back. Some one closer to the situation might know better than I, but the story was the schools convinced the widow of the man who had endowed the program to sign the money over to the university to be used as the university saw fit. Pretty low down tactics. I was in college when this happened. ND was in the West Region at the time.

No one said always. Kerry McCoy did a pretty good job at Stanford. That was not the case at Maryland.

Cael Sanderson Dan Gable Both considered the best wrestlers of their era.

Mizzou fan here. I'd be happy if Mizzou got a trophy, transfers or not. Time have indeed changed.

i would say Michigan had a good season. That being said, it would appear in this NIL era, Michigan has a strategy of bringing in transfers each year to make their program competitive. As far was getting team trophies, they've got 2 in the past 3 years, this strategy appears to be working. But if they want to contend to with PSU, they will have to start developing their own guys.

What metric are you using to say Illinois has passed Iowa?

Good analysis.

LaRussa retired after winning the WS with the Cardinals, albeit prior to 2006 there was some frustration amoungst the fanbase, myself included, with the lack of a WS championship in St. Louis. LaRussa had won one in Oakland. With that being said there was never a serious push to remove him from his manager position. The Cardinals were in contention most years during his time there. It didn't help Belichick that Brady went and won immediately elsewhere. Knight is a good comparison. I know Knight got fired for his behavior and not necessary his coaching, but he was beyond his heyday at Indiana. He was tolerated while Indiana was winning national titles and going to Final Fours.

For the old timers out there, were there people asking this question when Iowa Sate, led by a young Jim Gibbons, defeated Iowa at nationals a few times in the late 80's. Just saying, with only 1.5 separating the teams at nationals. It's a little early to ask the question. However, I think Dresser is a great coach and I'm glad to see this former traditional power having some success. Too bad they only gave out 3 trophies this year.

That wasn't my question? In your opinion, that is why is is under scrutiny. I'm asking if there is a coach in another sport with the coaching credentials that Tom Brands has, that has ever been under similar scrutiny. I said, maybe Saben with Alabama football. I can't think of any others.

I seem to remember people did/do hate Iowa. Some of it, from way back when, was that many of the Iowa wrestlers (the Brands brothers included) seemed to embrace the "heel" role. That, and the many favorable calls, mostly stalling, back in the Gable era. Today, the Iowa guys generally seem like pretty good guys/sports. Not sure where the hate comes from today. Right now Penn State is every bit as dominate as the Hawks were during the 80's and 90's, but very few, maybe one, have taken a "heel" turn (to use pro wrestling terminology).

Is there any other sport where a coach has a team consistently in the top 5 of the country yet is under the scrutiny of Tom Brands? Maybe Alabama football and that's a maybe. Say a basketball coach wins 4 national titles, favored to win a 5th but the tournament is canceled. That same coach goes to countless "Final Fours," would there be a basketball fan base arguing the game has passed this coach by? Or a change needs to be made. Penn State is the best team in the country, and that has been the case for the last 15 years, the next best team during this stretch has been Iowa.

That was certainly a rumor that was out there. Lee would have already been in the final based on his US Open win that year. Gilman would have needed to advance through the qualifying tournament to to match up with Lee in the finals. At that point, in my opinion. Lee is the favorite.

Had Covid not happened, it is was highly likely that Spencer Lee would have won a national title in 2020. There is little debate about that. He was most dominate during the 2019 - 2020 season. It is also likely that it would have been Spenser Lee representing the US in the Olympics in 2020, again had Covid not happened. In 2021, Lee tore a his ACL on his good knee, therefore compromising what he was able to do on the wrestling mat. Ultimately, he had surgery to repair both knees forcing him to sit out nearly all of the 2021 - 2022 season, and some of the 2022 - 2023 season. Anyone that has ever wrestled, can appreciate how difficult it must have been for Lee. As good as he was, it's very difficult to return in that time frame to 100%. The Spencer Lee that wrestled at nationals in 2023, was not the same guy that was dominating his weight in 2020. I don't think many would debate that.

The Brand's brothers first year, they finished 8th at the NCAA tournament. Iowa then won 3 straight. Iowa was ranked first in 2020, and would have been a solid bet to win the title that year. In the last 14 years, Penn State is the best team in the country, Iowa is the next best team over that same time period. There is no debate. Of course, being the 2nd best team is not what Iowa fans want or expect. It's been a long while since Dan Gable has retired, but his legacy still looms large over the program. At the time of his retirement, I would have said Dan Gable's coaching resume would have been impossible to top, but Cael is certainly closing in.