Fallacies (list, thoughts, and possible examples)

[Scouts Honor]

15 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

If there is even a small chance that raising taxes on mostly non bus riders(I’m guessing is the plan) would benefit the city and those non bus riders more than $9B, what is the harm in trying it? 
Like the Kansas Experiment 10-15 years ago. Let them enact all their fiscal policies and see if it works. Then you can have an example of how raising or in this case cutting taxes certain ways does not work. 

after we shell out $9 bil for nothing? 

[Scouts Honor]

59 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Not sure how an attempted explanation of something works as proof of a different point. Care to elaborate? 

you said the cost was spread around

wealth redistribution

who do you think paid the taxes... 

[Scouts Honor]

35 minutes ago, red viking said:

Let's cut the crap. Youre playing dodgeball. When should workers or retirees not get the pension they were promised? 

says the person playing dodgeball

 

[ThreePointTakedown]

4 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

after we shell out $9 bil for nothing? 

Free transportation is not nothing. Helps people get to their jobs.  Get better jobs. Allow more flexibility in education. There are a lot of financial benefits. Ability to get to a better(or any legit) grocery store. Which leads to better health. Lower healthcare cost. Plenty more benefits I can think of. 
 

If I’m wrong please tell me what you mean by nothing. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

6 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

you said the cost was spread around

wealth redistribution

who do you think paid the taxes... 

people that could more easily afford it. Some went up. Some went down. Some visited doctors at a much higher rate than they could’ve afforded previously. That could lead to better health outcomes and better life. Better life can lead to better financial outcomes. Agree?

[Caveira]

Forcing me to pay for your bus fare is just wrong boss.   Why don’t you voluntarily donate it.      
 

no one is to poor to afford the bus.  Walk.  Ride a bike.  Get a second job.  

Edited Friday at 04:30 PM by Caveira

[red viking]

4 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Forcing me to pay for your bus fare is just wrong boss.   Why don’t you voluntarily donate it.      
 

no one is to poor to afford the bus.  Walk.  Ride a bike.  Get a second job.  

Some subsidizing is reasonable since it cuts down on traffic. 

[Caveira]

8 minutes ago, red viking said:

Some subsidizing is reasonable since it cuts down on traffic. 

Whatever.  They already tax freaking traffic in nyc and Chicago and it’s higher than the bus fare 

Edited Friday at 04:40 PM by Caveira

[Viratas]

Free transportation makes it much easier to raid the suburbs

[red viking]

31 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Whatever.  They already tax freaking traffic in nyc and Chicago and it’s higher than the bus fare 

You really should just move to the suburbs. Why don't you?

[Scouts Honor]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Free transportation is not nothing. Helps people get to their jobs.  Get better jobs. Allow more flexibility in education. There are a lot of financial benefits. Ability to get to a better(or any legit) grocery store. Which leads to better health. Lower healthcare cost. Plenty more benefits I can think of. 
 

If I’m wrong please tell me what you mean by nothing. 

you just said teh people who don't use it would shell out $9bil

[Scouts Honor]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

people that could more easily afford it. Some went up. Some went down. Some visited doctors at a much higher rate than they could’ve afforded previously. That could lead to better health outcomes and better life. Better life can lead to better financial outcomes. Agree?

more easily afford it? who gets to decide that?

my healthcare costs went up and my quality down.

and chlidren have to stay on parents HC longer, b/c they can't afford their own

[Scouts Honor]

50 minutes ago, red viking said:

You really should just move to the suburbs. Why don't you?

b/c they are getting robbed 

[Scouts Honor]

50 minutes ago, red viking said:

You really should just move to the suburbs. Why don't you?

he probably already does.

 yet still being taxed.

Omaha does the same... wheel tax.

[red viking]

3 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

he probably already does.

 yet still being taxed.

Omaha does the same... wheel tax.

Wow. Chicago can impose taxes on the rest of the state of IL? 

I'm nearby,  in Wisconsin. Maybe they can start taxing me too? 

I'm worried. Can you show me how they can do that?

Edited Friday at 06:07 PM by red viking

[ThreePointTakedown]

1 hour ago, Caveira said:

Forcing me to pay for your bus fare is just wrong boss.   Why don’t you voluntarily donate it.      
 

no one is to poor to afford the bus.  Walk.  Ride a bike.  Get a second job.  

If you pay $5 but get $6 of realized or unrealized benefits from it what is the problem? You’re getting a benefit and benefitting others. Why is it bad? 

’Too poor’ that is an ignorant thing to think let alone say out loud(type). Don’t take this as an attack but saying something like that as a 100% truism as a point for your opinion is not a good tactic. 
Lack of disposable $ for transportation will limit options to jobs, education, food. Please prove me wrong without mentioning ‘common sense’ or ‘vibes’? 

[ThreePointTakedown]

29 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

you just said teh people who don't use it would shell out $9bil

Do you think the ‘job creators’ that will pay the bulk of the tax will benefit from a larger and better and more diverse pool of employees? 

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

If you pay $5 but get $6 of realized or unrealized benefits from it what is the problem? You’re getting a benefit and benefitting others. Why is it bad? 

’Too poor’ that is an ignorant thing to think let alone say out loud(type). Don’t take this as an attack but saying something like that as a 100% truism as a point for your opinion is not a good tactic. 
Lack of disposable $ for transportation will limit options to jobs, education, food. Please prove me wrong without mentioning ‘common sense’ or ‘vibes’? 

Free buses for people is of no benefit to people other than the people who get the free bus. 
 

There are free citi-bikes in nyc.  Peoples feet work.  They can get second jobs like my parents did.   
 

You can donate your $$ if you like.   It’s $1584 a year for unlimited bus rides in nyc.  Buy someone one 

[ThreePointTakedown]

16 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

more easily afford it? who gets to decide that?

my healthcare costs went up and my quality down.

and chlidren have to stay on parents HC longer, b/c they can't afford their own

Actuaries. 
 

If true, I’m sorry. Lots of people had their lives improve. Some quite dramatically. Thank you for your noble sacrifice. 
 

Not ‘have to’ ‘get to’. There’s a difference. And it’s because they couldn’t afford it. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

3 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Free buses for people is of no benefit to people other than the people who get the free bus. 
 

There are free citi-bikes in nyc.  Peoples feet work.  They can get second jobs like my parents did.   
 

You can donate your $$ if you like.   It’s $1584 a year for unlimited bus rides in nyc.  Buy someone one 

This is called ‘pulling up the ladder’. 
 

Employers benefit from people being able to afford to travel to their businesses to work. If you make a claim to the contrary, prove it!

More of the same ‘if you don’t like it leave’. Thank you for your input. But thought stoppers are not welcome here. 

[Caveira]

3 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

This is called ‘pulling up the ladder’. 
 

Employers benefit from people being able to afford to travel to their businesses to work. If you make a claim to the contrary, prove it!

More of the same ‘if you don’t like it leave’. Thank you for your input. But thought stoppers are not welcome here. 

No one is stopping them from taking the bus boss.  It is inexpensive.      
 

Hard workers will work.  They will find work.   And they will get jobs.  I gave you 50 options.  My parents worked two jobs.  People can work hard today too.  They can walk. They can use free nyc citi bikes.  They can use you as a charity.   

Edited Friday at 06:31 PM by Caveira

[ThreePointTakedown]

https://davidwilliamrosales.com/2025/06/27/pros-and-cons-of-free-buses/

 

Looks like it doesn't cost $9B, but just $600M. With $1.5B in economic benefit. 

[Caveira]

2 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

 

https://davidwilliamrosales.com/2025/06/27/pros-and-cons-of-free-buses/

 

Looks like it doesn't cost $9B, but just $600M. With $1.5B in economic benefit. 

Businesses and rich folks will leave as they are taxed into oblivion.  

[ThreePointTakedown]

6 minutes ago, Caveira said:

No one is stopping them from taking the bus boss.  It is inexpensive.      
 

Hard workers will work.  They will find work.   And they will get jobs.  I gave you 50 options.  My parents worked two jobs.  People can work hard today too.  They can walk. They can use free nyc citi bikes.  They can use you as a charity.   

Again ‘pulling the ladder up’. Why are you so angry at the thought of someone getting something you or your family didn’t? 
Shouldn’t we work to give the next generation better than we did? 
 

Or screw them. I struggled so you must struggle as much or more. 
 

I hope you understand how destructive and selfish that is. Thinking like this will keep us from improving because you don’t think YOU will benefit enough to justify it. I’m not interested in talking with selfish people like you. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

1 minute ago, Caveira said:

Businesses and rich folks will leave as they are taxed into oblivion.  

Nope.