Christian Pyles most disingenuous take.

[okokzach]

3 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Ben got the last laugh, and during a match at Sunkist was talking smack to Pendleton as he dragged Chris (who was trying to get out of bounds) back to the center.

I'm afraid you've got it backwards. As I mentioned above, Pendleton won their freestyle faceoff as well 

[BruceyB]

1 hour ago, okokzach said:

I'm afraid you've got it backwards. As I mentioned above, Pendleton won their freestyle faceoff as well 

Where was this result and at what weight? Ben was at 74kg and Pendleton never wrestled below 84kg as far as I remember. Although an exhibition sounds vaguely familiar. The only match I could find online was Pendleton vs Max Askren at 96kg.

Edit: Nevermind, I found it. Ben lost at the 2009 Sunkist open (2-1, 1-0) to Pendleton at 84kg.

Edited 14 hours ago by BruceyB

[1032004]

18 hours ago, BruceyB said:

To start, I also think the quarter century team is dumb, especially when the majority of guys wrestled at multiple weight classes during their careers and there is picking and choosing regarding which weights guys are being considered. That being said..

I would 100% pick Askren over Pendleton. 4x Finalist, 2x Undefeated National Champion, 2x Hodge winner, most pins in NCAA wrestling this quarter century, and he absolutely dominated his junior and senior years. 

I dunno, I don’t see how you can put someone ahead of a guy they lost to like 6x or whatever it was.  Pendleton was still a 2x champ, 1x 3rd  also

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

20 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I dunno, I don’t see how you can put someone ahead of a guy they lost to like 6x or whatever it was.  Pendleton was still a 2x champ, 1x 3rd  also

Pendleton was great.  How did he do at OTT?

I'm very interested in Pendleton's career outside of his wins over Askren.  He has a three paragraph wikipedia entry and one whole paragraph is devoted to beating Ben?  Literally 9 sentences total, and five about Askren.

Like who did Pendleton beat?  Was he undefeated for his career?

No record or list of wins.  Kinda tough to say he's the best of the last 25 years with that lack of info.

Edited 13 hours ago by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[1032004]

22 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Pendleton was great.  How did he do at OTT?

I'm very interested in Pendleton's career outside of his wins over Askren.  He has a three paragraph wikipedia entry and one whole paragraph is devoted to beating Ben?  Literally 9 sentences total, and five about Askren.

Like who did Pendleton beat?  Was he undefeated for his career?

No record or list of wins.  Kinda tough to say he's the best of the last 25 years with that lack of info.

I believe he had 1 loss each in his Junior and Senior years, 1 of those to Askren.

His junior year he was 1 point against Askren away from bonusing his way through the NCAA tournament.

His senior year he beat Askren 10-5 in the finals and only had 1 other non-bonus in the tournament.   He didn’t beat him but Jake Herbert was in this bracket and took 3rd.

His sophomore year he got a pin and a tech to make the quarters before losing to Brad Dillon.  He had a 17 second pin the third place match, and the guy he lost to got 5th.  

[MPhillips]

39 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Like who did Pendleton beat? 

Looks like Askren...

[okokzach]

49 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Pendleton was great.  How did he do at OTT?

I'm very interested in Pendleton's career outside of his wins over Askren.  He has a three paragraph wikipedia entry and one whole paragraph is devoted to beating Ben?  Literally 9 sentences total, and five about Askren.

Like who did Pendleton beat?  Was he undefeated for his career?

No record or list of wins.  Kinda tough to say he's the best of the last 25 years with that lack of info.

I don't think Chris wrote his own Wiki page. Here's some more bio on him that doesn't mention Askren if that's what you're wanting

https://osubeavers.com/sports/wrestling/roster/coaches/chris-pendleton/3081

 

I'm not necessarily contending that Pendleton is the greatest of the quarter century, just that I can't fathom putting him behind Askren.

[BruceyB]

11 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I believe he had 1 loss each in his Junior and Senior years, 1 of those to Askren.

His junior year he was 1 point against Askren away from bonusing his way through the NCAA tournament.

His senior year he beat Askren 10-5 in the finals and only had 1 other non-bonus in the tournament.   He didn’t beat him but Jake Herbert was in this bracket and took 3rd.

His sophomore year he got a pin and a tech to make the quarters before losing to Brad Dillon.  He had a 17 second pin the third place match, and the guy he lost to got 5th.  

Literally the only argument you can make for Pendleton over Askren is that junior and senior Pendleton was better than freshman and sophomore Askren. Pendleton's an amazing two-time champ that dominated the series against a future all-timer. 

That argument is extrapolating that they were on the same trajectory and that Ben Askren wouldn't surpass Pendleton as he continued to develop in college. I'm not going to take a stance in either direction, but I do think it's worth noting.

The bottom line is that if you are putting Pendleton above Askren then you are giving Pendleton points because of what Ben would go on to do. Pendleton did not beat a 2x Champ and Hodge winner, he won 6 or 7 matches where he was the favorite over a very tough underclassman.

[BruceyB]

13 minutes ago, okokzach said:

I don't think Chris wrote his own Wiki page. Here's some more bio on him that doesn't mention Askren if that's what you're wanting

https://osubeavers.com/sports/wrestling/roster/coaches/chris-pendleton/3081

 

I'm not necessarily contending that Pendleton is the greatest of the quarter century, just that I can't fathom putting him behind Askren.

I want you to answer genuinely. Whose career would you rather have?

4x finalist with over 90 career pins, 2 undefeated championship seasons and two Hodge trophies. (How many 4x finalists were there in the history of college wrestling in 2007?)

2x finalist, 0 undefeated seasons, 0 Hodge trophies, but you beat the guy above 6 out of 7 times during his first two years of competition?

Edited 12 hours ago by BruceyB

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

22 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

Literally the only argument you can make for Pendleton over Askren is that junior and senior Pendleton was better than freshman and sophomore Askren. Pendleton's an amazing two-time champ that dominated the series against a future all-timer. 

That argument is extrapolating that they were on the same trajectory and that Ben Askren wouldn't surpass Pendleton as he continued to develop in college. I'm not going to take a stance in either direction, but I do think it's worth noting.

The bottom line is that if you are putting Pendleton above Askren then you are giving Pendleton points because of what Ben would go on to do. Pendleton did not beat a 2x Champ and Hodge winner, he won 6 or 7 matches where he was the favorite over a very tough underclassman.

I mean, I beat a future D1 all-American as a junior in high school (9-5) and would never even consider making a claim that I was better than him after that day had passed.

[okokzach]

2 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

I want you to answer genuinely. Whose career would you rather have?

4x finalist with over 90 career pins, 2 undefeated championship seasons and two Hodge trophies. (How many 4x finalists were there in the history of college wrestling in 2007?)

2x finalist, 0 undefeated seasons, 0 Hodge trophies, but you beat the guy above 6 out of 7 times during his first two years of competition?

That's a separate question. On FRL today when taking about the best 184 of the 2000s, Bo Nickal seemed to be an afterthought to them. Toward the end of the conversation one of them said even though he doesn't think Bo was the best of the group, he would most like to have Bo's college career because of how exciting and fun it was. 

If you ask me who is the better college wrestler, Askren or Pendleton, I think it's Pendleton because he won head to head. During college and after college. 

I don't think Ben had some incredible improvement between his sophomore and junior year. He was a finalist every year of his career, the only difference in the result was whether he had to face Pendleton.