IOC statement

[MPhillips]

1 hour ago, LJB said:

To be fair… 

I didn’t have pong… my parents didn’t love me enough…

but…

my friend did…

You've adjusted nicely.

I had it, but my ol' man beat me everytime...

[mspart]

We got Pong when I was a teenager.   It feels good to be part of a club here!!

mspart

[LJB]

because i am who i am and clearly going to continue to steal from work for the rest of this week...

i had to look up some pong facts...

i lied to you guys...

it was not pong...

it was Super Pong... 

4...

count them off...

1... 2... 3... 4 games on that console...

'76 was a good year...

[Mike Parrish]

7 hours ago, MPhillips said:

 

Maybe there's a Pong survivors group we can join.

We're not that old fellas. Just feels like it...

I'm not old.
I'm just trapped in this old body.

[LJB]

i have this mental picture of myself still being the same punk rock 17 year old kid...

then i bend over...

i do not recommend getting old for anyone...

[mspart]

It ain't for wimps.

mspart

[Cherkov]

On 1/26/2023 at 6:15 PM, mspart said:

His last match I think went like this.

He was not in as good a shape as in the past.   That was obvious watching his matches before the finals.   He wasn't as sharp, he couldn't get his reverse lift going.  He wasn't as strong as in the past.  All of that combined with Rulon's game plan that allowed him to do his best and provide for his best defense.   He defended against the lift in a way I hadn't seen before but it was throwing Karelin off.   He just had to stay in there and pummel.   If not for the ridiculous clinch rule, Karelin could have won and maybe so, at least by criteria if it had stayed tied as Rulon was put down a few times.   But he broke his grip and lost.   But Rulon showed the heart of a champion in that match denying Karelin of his signature moves. 

I think if Karelin had come in at the same kind of strength and conditioning that he was known for, he would have won.   But Rulon's game plan worked and Rulon won with a weakened Karelin.   To show it was no fluke, he won WC the next year.   So he was no joke.

mspart

He did. Thats what happened at 97 worlds. Karelin threw Rulon and beat him 6-0. He talked about it on Conan. 

Karelin's irreversible decline started at 1999 worlds, he was never the same physically after. Mureiko had his hand raised against Karelin at those worlds in 99 (it was later overturned my understanding is no one scored). He then had a tough 3-0 win in the final against Hector, a man he destroyed in his prime multiple times. It kept happening after. 2000 euros Mureiko again stalemates him, Karelin wins Russian nationals 1-0 against a good but not great opponent. He lost his offense and that's why he retired immediately after. No one could score against him but, close matches became a regular thing. 

I don't put that much stock in Rulon's defense of the lift. Karelin didn't pull one off against anyone at those Olympics and many medalist level wrestlers defended it during that portion of Karelin's career. Rulon was good, well conditioned. But he was never unquestionably best in the world. Some people always had his number, like a very young Lopez or Ghafarri. Rulon had bad losses in him too. 

[BAC]

The IOC statement is maddening on so many levels.  Just a few:

1:  What has changed since the IOC's statement in 2/22, prohibiting Russian (and Belorussian) athletes from participating at all?

https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-eb-recommends-no-participation-of-russian-and-belarusian-athletes-and-officials

Answer.  Nothing.  Nothing at all.  Only that Russia has stepped up its aggression and kept even more Ukranians from participating.  And, apparently, that Russia's influence over the IOC won out over concerns over Russia's murderous territory grab.

2.  We already know from anti-doping scandals that this remedy is not only ineffective, it is pointless.  Referring to athletes as "Russian Olympic Committee" is a distinctoin without a difference, and even the media refers to the supposedly "independent athletes" as Russian.  The athletes privately carry Russian flags and thank Mother Russia in their speeches.  Seriously, why even bother pretending its a sanction, when it so clearly is not?

3.  I firmly believe that the only way Russia backs down from its territory grab is if faces significant internal pressure.  That is very hard to create, especially where Russia lacks democracy and has forbidden public criticism of the attack.  One of the VERY few ways such pressure could arise is if the athlete ban were lifted, instead of remaining in place until Russia retreats:  then, eventually, the sports-loving public would revolt.  As it is, Russian athletes and fans have been willing to "wait it out," based on assurance from Putin and Russian government that the IOC will cave.  Putin was right, and now the single best point of leverage is lost.  

4.  The trigger for prohibiting a Russian athlete is so vanishingly small as to be nonexistent.  My guess is 0% are barred from participation.  You need to be "actively supporting the war in Ukraine," and Russian athletes already know to keep their mouth shut -- and Putin knows not to put athletes in a position where they might be disqualified, because he needs to keep the masses behind him.  In fact, the way the IOC resolution is written, you could literally be on the front lines of the Russian war and have killed countless Ukranians and still be allowed to compete, since most of the current Russan soldiers were drafted -- and since a draft is involuntary it argubly is not "actively supporting."  

5.  Worse, you can be assured that this is being sold in Russia as not merely letting Russian athletes participate, but rather as an outright vindication.  "The IOC has reviewed the situation and concluded we should be able to participate EXACTLY like we were able to participate in the last Olympics, before there was ever any invasion!", they will be told -- accurately.  In an unfree media, this will be sold to the Russian populace of an international blessing of what they are doing.

6.  Now that this hurdle has passed, Putin is also free to step up his assault on Ukriane.  He no doubt realized the public backlash he'd face if there were a full-scale ban by Olympic committees, so he must have know that he had to keep it at a level where he doesn't invite an indefinite ban until Russia withdraws.  Now that the risk has passed, he is free to step up the aggression again, even to the point of crushing Kiev entirely if he can.  Its not like the IOC will change its mind.

Needless to say, it is just a matter of days before UWW alters its position to mirror that of the IOC.  I don't even blame UWW, as wrestling is hanging on by a thread as it is, and they certainly aren't going to want to go crosswise with the IOC and get themselves booted from the Olympics again.  But even so, this feckless, gutless IOC capitulation is going to cost tens if not hundreds of thousands of lives, and prolong this war by untold years.

 

[mspart]

On 1/27/2023 at 5:26 PM, Cherkov said:

He did. Thats what happened at 97 worlds. Karelin threw Rulon and beat him 6-0. He talked about it on Conan. 

Karelin's irreversible decline started at 1999 worlds, he was never the same physically after. Mureiko had his hand raised against Karelin at those worlds in 99 (it was later overturned my understanding is no one scored). He then had a tough 3-0 win in the final against Hector, a man he destroyed in his prime multiple times. It kept happening after. 2000 euros Mureiko again stalemates him, Karelin wins Russian nationals 1-0 against a good but not great opponent. He lost his offense and that's why he retired immediately after. No one could score against him but, close matches became a regular thing. 

I don't put that much stock in Rulon's defense of the lift. Karelin didn't pull one off against anyone at those Olympics and many medalist level wrestlers defended it during that portion of Karelin's career. Rulon was good, well conditioned. But he was never unquestionably best in the world. Some people always had his number, like a very young Lopez or Ghafarri. Rulon had bad losses in him too. 

In general I agree.   The defense of using your hands to turn in circles is what I was talking about.   It may have been quite common before that, but this was the first time I had seen it.   It kept Karelin off balance and he couldn't complete a throw.  I agree Karelin didn't get a reverse lift throw executed in 2000 Olympics.   But the way Rulon did that defense, I thought was inspired.   Again, maybe it was quite common.   I just had never seen it done and was impressed. 

mspart

[mspart]

On 1/29/2023 at 11:39 AM, BAC said:

The IOC statement is maddening on so many levels.  Just a few:

1:  What has changed since the IOC's statement in 2/22, prohibiting Russian (and Belorussian) athletes from participating at all?

https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-eb-recommends-no-participation-of-russian-and-belarusian-athletes-and-officials

Answer.  Nothing.  Nothing at all.  Only that Russia has stepped up its aggression and kept even more Ukranians from participating.  And, apparently, that Russia's influence over the IOC won out over concerns over Russia's murderous territory grab.

2.  We already know from anti-doping scandals that this remedy is not only ineffective, it is pointless.  Referring to athletes as "Russian Olympic Committee" is a distinctoin without a difference, and even the media refers to the supposedly "independent athletes" as Russian.  The athletes privately carry Russian flags and thank Mother Russia in their speeches.  Seriously, why even bother pretending its a sanction, when it so clearly is not?

3.  I firmly believe that the only way Russia backs down from its territory grab is if faces significant internal pressure.  That is very hard to create, especially where Russia lacks democracy and has forbidden public criticism of the attack.  One of the VERY few ways such pressure could arise is if the athlete ban were lifted, instead of remaining in place until Russia retreats:  then, eventually, the sports-loving public would revolt.  As it is, Russian athletes and fans have been willing to "wait it out," based on assurance from Putin and Russian government that the IOC will cave.  Putin was right, and now the single best point of leverage is lost.  

4.  The trigger for prohibiting a Russian athlete is so vanishingly small as to be nonexistent.  My guess is 0% are barred from participation.  You need to be "actively supporting the war in Ukraine," and Russian athletes already know to keep their mouth shut -- and Putin knows not to put athletes in a position where they might be disqualified, because he needs to keep the masses behind him.  In fact, the way the IOC resolution is written, you could literally be on the front lines of the Russian war and have killed countless Ukranians and still be allowed to compete, since most of the current Russan soldiers were drafted -- and since a draft is involuntary it argubly is not "actively supporting."  

5.  Worse, you can be assured that this is being sold in Russia as not merely letting Russian athletes participate, but rather as an outright vindication.  "The IOC has reviewed the situation and concluded we should be able to participate EXACTLY like we were able to participate in the last Olympics, before there was ever any invasion!", they will be told -- accurately.  In an unfree media, this will be sold to the Russian populace of an international blessing of what they are doing.

6.  Now that this hurdle has passed, Putin is also free to step up his assault on Ukriane.  He no doubt realized the public backlash he'd face if there were a full-scale ban by Olympic committees, so he must have know that he had to keep it at a level where he doesn't invite an indefinite ban until Russia withdraws.  Now that the risk has passed, he is free to step up the aggression again, even to the point of crushing Kiev entirely if he can.  Its not like the IOC will change its mind.

Needless to say, it is just a matter of days before UWW alters its position to mirror that of the IOC.  I don't even blame UWW, as wrestling is hanging on by a thread as it is, and they certainly aren't going to want to go crosswise with the IOC and get themselves booted from the Olympics again.  But even so, this feckless, gutless IOC capitulation is going to cost tens if not hundreds of thousands of lives, and prolong this war by untold years.

 

Agreed.   Virtue signaling with no teeth.    Which is the definition of virtue signalling.  Make it look like you are doing something without doing anything.

mspart