PSU should keep Levi Haines' redshirt on

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

If Levi goes vs Iowa that means his redshirt is off for the year.   I'm thinking they should keep it on and send out Bearclaw for the rest of the year and NCAAs.

Reasoning:

1. The big picture is winning NCAAs.  Bearclaw can qualify for NCAAs and probably win a match.

2. PSU, even without Haines, likely will have 5 guys enter NCAAs as top 3 seeds (RBY, Star, Brooks, Dean and Kerk)

3. Bearclaw probably wins 1-2 matches at NCAAs.  Haines probably gives you another 1-2 wins if he goes.

4. Iowa probably wins the dual next week even if Haines goes since I think Siebrecht is better.  And I think Bearclaw is good enough not to get bonused.

5. Haines is needed more next year as 157 clears out.

 

What say you, Cael?

[Wrestleknownothing]

10 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

If Levi goes vs Iowa that means his redshirt is off for the year.   I'm thinking they should keep it on and send out Bearclaw for the rest of the year and NCAAs.

Reasoning:

1. The big picture is winning NCAAs.  Bearclaw can qualify for NCAAs and probably win a match.

2. PSU, even without Haines, likely will have 5 guys enter NCAAs as top 3 seeds (RBY, Star, Brooks, Dean and Kerk)

3. Bearclaw probably wins 1-2 matches at NCAAs.  Haines probably gives you another 1-2 wins if he goes.

4. Iowa probably wins the dual next week even if Haines goes since I think Siebrecht is better.  And I think Bearclaw is good enough not to get bonused.

5. Haines is needed more next year as 157 clears out.

 

What say you, Cael?

Cael is on this board?

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Cael is on this board?

He posts under the username Wrestleknowsomething

[1032004]

So Iowa isn't a "real threat for the title" anymore?

[WrestlingFan89]

8 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

So Iowa isn't a "real threat for the title" anymore?

I mean, Hillger was oiled up

[Elevator]

I think it is up to the coaches and Levi and I will respect there decision.  Guessing he is competing this year, but certainly a reason to let him have a redshirt year particulalry if he wants it.

[SocraTease]

Reasons to tear up that shirt:

1.  Haines will clearly score more points at NCAAs than Bear Claw (and PSU may need them given the possibility of injuries and other contingencies)

2.  Cael has said that Haines might not be at 157 too long (given projected growth) and there is a potential logjam at these upper middle weights in the offing so you use him now if you can because Facundo, CStarr et. al. (including incoming freshmen) are there at 165 and 174 for a while.   A bird (Haines) in the hand is worth two in the bush (future).

3.  Cael certainly wants to beat Iowa, especially at home, and Haines gives them a much better shot at 157.   Haines just beat a returning AA (Lewan) while Bear Claw lost to a #15.

Edited January 24, 2023 by SocraTease

[1032004]

33 minutes ago, SocraTease said:

Reasons to tear up that shirt:

1.  Haines will clearly score more points at NCAAs than Bear Claw (and PSU may need them given the possibility of injuries and other contingencies)

2.  Cael has said that Haines might not be at 157 too long (given projected growth) and there is a potential logjam at these upper middle weights in the offing so you use him now if you can because Facundo, CStarr et. al. (including incoming freshmen) are there at 165 and 174 for a while.   A bird (Haines) in the hand is worth two in the bush (future).

3.  Cael certainly wants to beat Iowa, especially at home, and Haines gives them a much better shot at 157.   Haines just beat a returning AA (Lewan) while Bear Claw lost to a #15.

4.  Haines has a loss this year, so Cael’s 159-0 remains unbroken

[Elevator]

18 hours ago, SocraTease said:

Reasons to tear up that shirt:

1.  Haines will clearly score more points at NCAAs than Bear Claw (and PSU may need them given the possibility of injuries and other contingencies)

2.  Cael has said that Haines might not be at 157 too long (given projected growth) and there is a potential logjam at these upper middle weights in the offing so you use him now if you can because Facundo, CStarr et. al. (including incoming freshmen) are there at 165 and 174 for a while.   A bird (Haines) in the hand is worth two in the bush (future).

3.  Cael certainly wants to beat Iowa, especially at home, and Haines gives them a much better shot at 157.   Haines just beat a returning AA (Lewan) while Bear Claw lost to a #15.

these are good pts - he might be able to redshirt next year or so as well

[BAC]

On 1/23/2023 at 7:36 PM, SocraTease said:

Reasons to tear up that shirt:

2.  Cael has said that Haines might not be at 157 too long (given projected growth) and there is a potential logjam at these upper middle weights in the offing so you use him now if you can because Facundo, CStarr et. al. (including incoming freshmen) are there at 165 and 174 for a while.   A bird (Haines) in the hand is worth two in the bush (future).

There's a compelling argument for keeping Haines in redshirt.  Realistically, PSU is not likely to need whatever amount of additional points he is apt to score than Barraclaugh -- especially with how well guys Bartlett, Van Ness and Facundo are doing.  FAR better to the '26-27 Nits to have a 5th year Haines -- who will be a killer by that point -- than have a few extra meaningless points at NCAAs this year.  PSU is in this for the long haul, needs to plan for life after Starocci/Brooks, and Haines has future-champ written all over him.

But point #2 above is the only thing that gives me pause.  What if Haines can't cut to '57 any more next year, creating a Facunso-Haines-Starocci log jam?  I don't know.  If that's a real risk, then it makes sense to redshirt Haines next year, maybe throw in Sealey at '57 if he can make the cut, Sealey redshirts the following year, and you still get '26-27 5th-year Haines (barring injury and all the other bad stuff that can happen).  

[SocraTease]

5 hours ago, BAC said:

There's a compelling argument for keeping Haines in redshirt.  Realistically, PSU is not likely to need whatever amount of additional points he is apt to score than Barraclaugh -- especially with how well guys Bartlett, Van Ness and Facundo are doing.  FAR better to the '26-27 Nits to have a 5th year Haines -- who will be a killer by that point -- than have a few extra meaningless points at NCAAs this year.  PSU is in this for the long haul, needs to plan for life after Starocci/Brooks, and Haines has future-champ written all over him.

But point #2 above is the only thing that gives me pause.  What if Haines can't cut to '57 any more next year, creating a Facunso-Haines-Starocci log jam?  I don't know.  If that's a real risk, then it makes sense to redshirt Haines next year, maybe throw in Sealey at '57 if he can make the cut, Sealey redshirts the following year, and you still get '26-27 5th-year Haines (barring injury and all the other bad stuff that can happen).  

Yes, this is the real issue.  Does one seize the day (carpe diem) or plot  and calculate for possible scenarios down the road?  Is Haines a DT in the making (I'm doubtful he is at that level) who should be shirted or a freshman Mark Hall (who's shirt was removed as a first year) or maybe a Zain Retherford, who has the capacity to make a long run at NCAAs his first year  

Folks will certainly judge the decision by the consequences (as opposed to the intentions or the character of the coaches) but that is probably a simplistic and shallow view.   We  should acknowledge that all sorts of contingencies in this sport exist (as in life) and that hindsight is 20/20.  Sanderson has a proven record (and a gift I think) about making intuitive decisions and  applying practical wisdom (judgment) so we can second guess him all we want, but who else is in a better position to make the call? 

My sense: no one.  And may the drama heighten our interest in this crazy sport. 

Maybe we even see Spencer Lee bump to 133 against RBY (doubtful) but it can only be a fan's delight. 

Hinduism has a  curious notion that that the universe is involved in a kind of cosmic play (Lila), a drama of appearance and disappearance, a game of hide and seek. 

Friday should be fun, and waiting is part of this game.  

My guess: Haines is on the mat Friday.  Sanderson loves these challenges.  DT (his coach at M2 and my bet for the next coach at Penn State) will be rooting him on from stands.  It's just one of many good battles that will occur in a heated rivalry.   Pull up a front row seat.

[1032004]

9 hours ago, BAC said:

There's a compelling argument for keeping Haines in redshirt.  Realistically, PSU is not likely to need whatever amount of additional points he is apt to score than Barraclaugh -- especially with how well guys Bartlett, Van Ness and Facundo are doing.  FAR better to the '26-27 Nits to have a 5th year Haines -- who will be a killer by that point -- than have a few extra meaningless points at NCAAs this year.  PSU is in this for the long haul, needs to plan for life after Starocci/Brooks, and Haines has future-champ written all over him.

But point #2 above is the only thing that gives me pause.  What if Haines can't cut to '57 any more next year, creating a Facunso-Haines-Starocci log jam?  I don't know.  If that's a real risk, then it makes sense to redshirt Haines next year, maybe throw in Sealey at '57 if he can make the cut, Sealey redshirts the following year, and you still get '26-27 5th-year Haines (barring injury and all the other bad stuff that can happen).  

Isn’t Sealey only a junior?