Tech fall % at us open is ridiculous

[Boring]

On 4/28/2025 at 11:29 PM, Caveira said:

I didn’t count specifically but I bet 90% of the techs are 10-0.    A few were 12-2.  Rarely if ever were they a good match like 24-14.   The scoring in freestyle today is silly.   Please keep all of it out of folkstyle.  

Back in my day the big move in FS was the so-called "Gator roll".  FS has always been weak when it comes to back points. 

[Caveira]

43 minutes ago, Boring said:

Seems that would indicate a lot of guys shouldn't have been there, in my opinion. But FS is flaky anyway. 

The world championships were 50% tech falls in the brackets I counted.    The darn worlds lol.     It was still defended by the always freestylers.

[Boring]

On 4/28/2025 at 7:44 PM, Husker said:

Curious how many were leg laces? I saw a few of them on highlight/recap videos. Get a leg lace going and the match is over. 

They should change the rule on leglaces and other perpetual moves. After scoring a turn they should just start from the feet again. 

[scourge165]

On 4/28/2025 at 5:27 PM, Eagle26 said:

And when they added multiple turns and when they added step outs. Techs are a lot easier to come by in Freestyle. I love almost everything about the current freestyle rules, but I would personally like to see us go back to one turn and then you have to change holds. We got to see a lot more great wrestling IMO

Was there a time you could only do one gut at a time?

There had to be a score in between or you have to come back up to your feel? 

I remember you could hold someone for a count(on a trapped arm or something) and then go back to the Gut...but I can't recall if it was ever limited to 1 or if it was 2 gut wrenches. 

[boconnell]

On 4/30/2025 at 11:15 AM, Caveira said:

The world championships were 50% tech falls in the brackets I counted.    The darn worlds lol.     It was still defended by the always freestylers.

What needs to be defended?  Why is it bad that one guy often scores a lot more than the other guy?  Is it bad when too many boxing matches end in knockouts?

[okokzach]

On 4/30/2025 at 12:30 PM, Boring said:

Seems that would indicate a lot of guys shouldn't have been there, in my opinion. But FS is flaky anyway. 

Half of the US Open men's finals ended in techs, including Seth Gross and David Carr. 

[okokzach]

1 hour ago, boconnell said:

What needs to be defended?  Why is it bad that one guy often scores a lot more than the other guy?  Is it bad when too many boxing matches end in knockouts?

Knockouts are exciting and decisive in a way that, for me, continuous leg laces are not. Pins are exciting and decisive in the way a knockout is. I never feel robbed when a match ends in pin. 

[boconnell]

1 hour ago, okokzach said:

Knockouts are exciting and decisive in a way that, for me, continuous leg laces are not. Pins are exciting and decisive in the way a knockout is. I never feel robbed when a match ends in pin. 

I've never felt robbed when a match ends in tech.  Leg lace or not I've never felt like the better guy lost by 10 or more points.  I see zero bad things about a match ending in a tech.

[Boring]

7 hours ago, okokzach said:

Half of the US Open men's finals ended in techs, including Seth Gross and David Carr. 

I've noticed a lot of techs in FS for several years now. Scoring needs to be tweaked or something, maybe? 

[Eagle26]

12 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Was there a time you could only do one gut at a time?

There had to be a score in between or you have to come back up to your feel? 

I remember you could hold someone for a count(on a trapped arm or something) and then go back to the Gut...but I can't recall if it was ever limited to 1 or if it was 2 gut wrenches. 

Yes. There had to be a different score before you could score again with the same hold. You could hold them on their back for a five count and get one point for that. That would count as a different score and then you could turn them again without releasing. Most often seen in the trapped arm gut

[scourge165]

37 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

Yes. There had to be a different score before you could score again with the same hold. You could hold them on their back for a five count and get one point for that. That would count as a different score and then you could turn them again without releasing. Most often seen in the trapped arm gut

I wasn't sure. The rules were changing so much...but I've had a disagreement with an old coach of mine. He said two guts were allowed. 

But...I do remember you could do 5 laces or I learned it as the "Olympic" Role. This would have been when I was a little kid just starting out in Freestyle and Greco. So...mid 90s or so. 

[Eagle26]

30 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I wasn't sure. The rules were changing so much...but I've had a disagreement with an old coach of mine. He said two guts were allowed. 

But...I do remember you could do 5 laces or I learned it as the "Olympic" Role. This would have been when I was a little kid just starting out in Freestyle and Greco. So...mid 90s or so. 

You may have been able do one side than the other with gut wrenches? We might need someone else to weigh in too because my memory is getting a bit foggy too lol. The multiple laces stopped sometime after John Smith (I heard it said he laced too many people and that’s why they wanted it changed lol). It was single turns when started freestyle in the late 90s, so maybe it changed after the 96 Olympics. I believe the “ball grab era” started after the 2004 Olympics… that’s when the rules really sucked!

[MPhillips]

20 hours ago, Eagle26 said:

We might need someone else to weigh in too because my memory is getting a bit foggy too lol.

Early eighties I could still, "Gator Roll" (I believe Beast mentioned the same) a kid to a TF. TD were worth one.

[Boring]

On 5/3/2025 at 2:00 PM, MPhillips said:

Early eighties I could still, "Gator Roll" (I believe Beast mentioned the same) a kid to a TF. TD were worth one.

I still remember my first FS wrestling practice. The coach showed the Gator Roll and I remember asking him "So I don't have to release the hold, I can just keep rolling him over and over again?". "Yup" said the coach. It was exactly at that point that I realized FS scoring was a bit of a joke. They still haven't cleaned up the perpetual moves, but now it's always the leglace. 

Well, at least they don't have that ridiculous ball-grab nonsense anymore. I'll take whatever improvement I can get. 

Edited 12 hours ago by Boring

[Konquest]

It's the "OPEN" for a reason.  There are a bunch of dudes who stay in shape coaching or even training part time with a 9-5 for the event knowing full well that they might be lucky to score points, much less win a match.  It's a true open where anyone can enter.  Realistically there are only 3-4 guys at each weight who have a chance, though.  The WTT is different because there are qualifying criteria, so you don't have 80 man brackets and multiple rounds of 30 second 10-0 matches.