IL pretty close to the Mighty pa

[BAC]

11 hours ago, flyingcement said:

Coming from someone who has produced this info a couple times in the past, I always struggled with finding ample information to make my own determination of where someone should be from.  It feels easier to accept their submitted "hometown" even if they have different ways of how they may characterize that.  

 

Thank you @Jason Bryant for this breakdown. 

This has been a topic of debate on this forum and its predecessor for 20 years.  It was especially contentious when Blair was tops and Sem wasn't a factor, as the NJ folks would want to take credit for every kid who ever wore a Blair singlet, no matter how short the duration, while Blair haters wanted to deny them credit for anyone who ever lived outside of NJ, no matter how much Blair developed them. 

Examples: Was Mark Perry from OK, where he trained under the Smith family, or from NJ, for spending 4 years at Blair?  Was Mocco from NJ, from his Blair years, or MD, where he was thru his freshman year? How about Jordan Oliver, who was in NJ junior high stud before moving to PA for high school? Heck, the Wyoming crowd (such as it was) thought David Taylor should be considered a WY kid as he only moved to OH somewhere in junior high when he was already a killer and wanted better competition.

I understand and respect your approach, and that of @Jason Bryant , to just look at what hometown the kid lists, as that has the benefit of simplicity, removes the bias, and takes the question out of the hands of squabbling fans.

But I still don't like it.  My main issue is the whole idea of looking at state of origin is to try to measure which state "produces" the best wrestlers, not which state happens to have the most number of kids who once lived there.  

If, say, Luke Lilledahl moved from Missouri to PA his senior year, and his family did too, such that his hometown is now PA, should PA take credit for him?  No way, and I'd side with the Missouri folks balking at that. I think everyone would.  I think that's a built-in flaw with the hometown approach.  At minimum I think you need to make exceptions for those situations.

But it works the other way too. A kid can list his hometown as a place where he didn't do squat as a wrestler, and was coached up elsewhere.  I don't see why the hometown should get "credit" there.

Lets say 2 kids from Hawaii, who are good but far from great, go to a Blair type boarding school as freshmen, where both become elite wrestlers.  Both kids love NJ, and compete on NJ's squad in state/freestyle duals/Fargo. Kid 1's family moves with him, so now his "hometown" is NJ.  Kid 2's dad has a job in Hawaii he can't leave, so the family never moves, such that their "hometown" is still HI.  Does it make sense to say that, just because of kid 2's dad's job, one's from NJ and the other HI?

Over the years, an uneasy consensus sort of developed on the boards that if a kid spent 4 years at a given school, *and* chose to compete for that school's state team (e.g. Fargo) during that time, then he's "produced" by that school for purposes of these calculations. So by the same standard that everyone grudgingly agreed, say, Mark Perry should be treated as a "NJ kid" for these purposes (despite his legit OK roots), Bartlett would be a "PA kid" (despite his legit AZ roots). 

I'd readily admit that's still imperfect, since these days, kids start crazy early, and the top kids are already killers by the time they hit 9th grade. Bartlett, for example, trained under Beloglazov out west, and did win preps as a freshman, so I can't get too huffy about PA not getting "credit" for him.  But you could say the same about any of these other guys I mentioned who excelled elsewhere before finding a new high school, whose state takes credit for their accomplishments.  You have to draw the line somewhere.

Am I overthinking this? Yeah, probably, but I'd use the "4 years HS + competing for that state" test over the "what they say their hometown is" approach.

[Jason Bryant]

There’s always exceptions in both directions - so I feel the hometown distinction BY THE ATHLETE will balance out - for every Bartlett, there’s a counter so it’ll all be a wash in the long run anyway.

i’ve lived in my current house longer than any other place. I’m a Minnesota resident but I will always claim Virginia as where I’m from.

And I don’t think there’s a solution that can be easily deduced. Unless my time gets paid for to go year by year, athlete by athlete - and even then, that decision can come under added scrutiny.

[BAC]

10 minutes ago, Jason Bryant said:

There’s always exceptions in both directions - so I feel the hometown distinction BY THE ATHLETE will balance out - for every Bartlett, there’s a counter so it’ll all be a wash in the long run anyway.

i’ve lived in my current house longer than any other place. I’m a Minnesota resident but I will always claim Virginia as where I’m from.

And I don’t think there’s a solution that can be easily deduced. Unless my time gets paid for to go year by year, athlete by athlete - and even then, that decision can come under added scrutiny.

I'm all for leaving it up to the athlete, but asking for their hometown isn't the same asking for their state of wrestling origin.  If you asked me for mind, I'd give a different state for each, as what I call my hometown isn't the state that I'd say produced me as a wrestler.

Regardless, your points are well taken, especially when you're in the wrestling media as you are -- that is, you need to have an approach which, despite its potential inaccuracies, can't be said to be borne of bias. And, as you mention, you're paid by your output, not by the hour.

For me, though, since I don't have to answer to anyone besides online hecklers and angry Arizonans as I bask in anonymity, I'll stick to my way.  :]