So help me get this straight…

[TylerDurden]

3 minutes ago, Tigerfan said:

Actually, I am. 

So you're saying that athletic department officials are telling you these things? 

[Tigerfan]

3 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

So you're saying that athletic department officials are telling you these things? 

I’m not at liberty to get more specific. I wouldn’t say it if it weren’t credible. 

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

45 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

Perhaps, but you aren't dealing with them in their professional capacities. Collegiate athletics are an emotional endeavor.

I’m really curious his “well connected” people…. Dude has an inflated sense of importance. 

[1032004]

So will the Big 10 and SEC schools be part of the NCAA for the sports other than football and basketball?

[Tigerfan]

36 minutes ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

I’m really curious his “well connected” people…. Dude has an inflated sense of importance. 

I never said a word about my importance or lack thereof. Stop projecting. Clearly YOU associate athletic department administrators as important, and thus those in their orbit somehow absorb some of that importance (assigned by you). 
 

My sources are very credible, how important they are is a different matter. And I’m not important simply by knowing them. Are we done with personal attacks yet?

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

1 hour ago, Tigerfan said:

I never said a word about my importance or lack thereof. Stop projecting. Clearly YOU associate athletic department administrators as important, and thus those in their orbit somehow absorb some of that importance (assigned by you). 
 

My sources are very credible, how important they are is a different matter. And I’m not important simply by knowing them. Are we done with personal attacks yet?

You’re right, no need to be personal. I just tie a lot of personality, time, value, etc. to wrestling and what you say doesn’t make sense logically that “D1 wrestling is a dead man walking”
 

Why don’t you just name drop and say exactly what was said? I don’t like the vagueness….

[TylerDurden]

2 hours ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

I’m really curious his “well connected” people…. Dude has an inflated sense of importance. 

I don't think this is the case. I think he's just sharing what he's heard. Nothing more, nothing less. 

I read his post as implying that the views he's sharing come from people outside of the athletics department based on the language he used, thus my comment about interacting with them in their professional capacities and the emotional involvement. His reply to that seems to imply that these opinions are from people inside of an athletic department. Fair enough. I'm sure he felt that was the best way to share his info. To each their own.  

Regardless of the who is talking, there are legitimate concerns about the ultimate impact on collegiate wrestling if/when they B1G and SEC figure out the legal and political maze they'll need to navigate to do their own thing. 

When people are unsure about where the money comes from and how much is coming, they tend to panic. For as much abuse as the NCAA takes, they are a known entity. People know what to expect, how the money flows, and how sports function in that structure. When you take that away, every outcome becomes viable, including elimination. 

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

12 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

I don't think this is the case. I think he's just sharing what he's heard. Nothing more, nothing less. 

I read his post as implying that the views he's sharing come from people outside of the athletics department based on the language he used, thus my comment about interacting with them in their professional capacities and the emotional involvement. His reply to that seems to imply that these opinions are from people inside of an athletic department. Fair enough. I'm sure he felt that was the best way to share his info. To each their own.  

Regardless of the who is talking, there are legitimate concerns about the ultimate impact on collegiate wrestling if/when they B1G and SEC figure out the legal and political maze they'll need to navigate to do their own thing. 

When people are unsure about where the money comes from and how much is coming, they tend to panic. For as much abuse as the NCAA takes, they are a known entity. People know what to expect, how the money flows, and how sports function in that structure. When you take that away, every outcome becomes viable, including elimination. 

I appreciate the response. I’ve been wracking my brain trying to guess who or what position said person could be in to have opinions about women’s wrestling, d1 wrestling, and the new “super conference” to come from the SEC/Big10 merge. 
 

it does appear he’s parroting someone’s opinion, but how credible can one person be unless it’s the president of the NCAA or an athletic director at one of the top athletic schools.

thing can and will change, whether bc of the super conference or other. Women’s wrestling is doing fine without NCAA sponsorship, change does elicit panic, but this thread is nothing but speculation. 

[jajensen09]

On 3/2/2024 at 8:19 AM, Tigerfan said:

There are so many things happening in college sports I’m having trouble distilling it all into how NCAA D1 wrestling will be impacted. Big10 and SEC will withdraw from NCAA and start their own organization, ostensibly to benefit FB/BB almost exclusively. NIL money is basically robbing Peter to pay Paul, since those donations used to go to the schools to help fund Oly sports, offsetting the costs of competitive FB/BB programs. Declining enrollments and ever escalating costs will ultimately force almost all schools to cut Oly sports in order to compete in the FB/BB arms race. PSU, Iowa, Michigan, and maybe a few others have the self-funding to carry on, but no one else will have the cash to compete with them.
 

Another D1 school adding women’s wrestling ain’t happening. “Total pipedream”.
 

D1 wrestling is a dead man walking. I give it 5 years. Enjoy every bit we have left, because winter is coming. 
 

It should be noted that my understanding of the situation comes mostly from well-connected people who are the opposite of reactionary in their professional capacities. 

Is that about the gist of it? Will non-school affiliated club teams take over? Will anyone care? Attendance at freestyle events is dismal. Will that change? Enquiring minds want to know. 

D1 wrestling if far from dead man walking.  There may not be a governing NCAA for any sports. Doesn't mean they are dead, which means new ownership which would be a positive for wrestling 

Edited March 4 by jajensen09

[lu1979]

5 hours ago, Tigerfan said:

Are any of the other 3 D1 in anything else? Regardless, they are a far cry from B10/B12 caliber schools (athletically). 
 

Also, those were in the past. The whole subject of this thread is the how significantly different the future will be in these changing landscapes. 
 

Maybe I should have said no formerly known as a Power 5 conference schools will ever add women’s wrestling. 

Sacred Heart is D1 in all their sports

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

40 minutes ago, jajensen09 said:

D1 wrestling if far from dead man walking.  There may not be a governing NCAA for any sports. Doesn't mean they are dead, which means new ownership which would be a positive for wrestling 

That’s how I see it, if anything, having a positive mindset is healthier, even if wrong. 

[jajensen09]

6 minutes ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

That’s how I see it, if anything, having a positive mindset is healthier, even if wrong. 

Imagine having someone/ a committee in charge of D1 wrestling that actually cares about and knows the sport.  

[Ohio Elite]

20 minutes ago, jajensen09 said:

Imagine having someone/ a committee in charge of D1 wrestling that actually cares about and knows the sport.  

That would be too good to be true.

[billyhoyle]

7 hours ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

Why is this board sooo dramatic and pessimistic. If the NCAA doesn’t work out there are 100 different avenues that could be explored and implemented. Nothing last forever and wrestling could do itself favors governing itself. 

Yeah, what other venue provides athletic scholarships to athletes?  The net value that wrestlers get from NCAA wrestling from those scholarships is in the tens of millions per year.  Then consider how much the NCAA subsidizes training for international athletes who also coach (think of the cost of PSU facilities). And don't ignore salaries for coaches so wrestlers can compete into their 30s and know they have a job after. 

Please provide an example of how wrestling can exist in this country in any form that is close to what we currently enjoy if you eliminate NCAA wrestling.  You say there are a 100 different ones-I ask you to provide one logical one.  Are we going to have hundreds of athletes train at the OTC funded by some rich donor?

This whole "things are going to be ok if the NCAA goes away" makes no sense to me. 

 

[billyhoyle]

1 hour ago, jajensen09 said:

D1 wrestling if far from dead man walking.  There may not be a governing NCAA for any sports. Doesn't mean they are dead, which means new ownership which would be a positive for wrestling 

The NCAA is the governing body of college athletics.  Realignment doesn't eliminate the NCAA, but if you think this sport can survive without an organization like the NCAA, you are wrong.  What realignment will do though is eliminate a number of the programs that are currently in P5 conferences but will see huge revenue drops.  

The issue with the decrease in popularity of the sport (fewer fans watching NCAA wrestling and attending duals) is that as wrestling becomes less popular, it will be earlier on the chopping block.  About ten years ago, it looked like NCAA wrestling was increasing in popularity.  The way the regular season has been managed has completely screwed up any momentum that we had though. 

Edited March 4 by billyhoyle

[Rassling]

6 hours ago, jajensen09 said:

Imagine having someone/ a committee in charge of D1 wrestling that actually cares about and knows the sport.  

I've been saying this for years. D1 wrestling lacks true leadership - it truly does. The lazy older out-of-fresh-idea individuals who feel they are influencers in the sport know deep down inside they're mean nothing to these young wrestlers. They're legacy will ultimately be the end of D1 wrestling within 5-10 years.

[Richb]

16 hours ago, Tigerfan said:

Are any of the other 3 D1 in anything else? Regardless, they are a far cry from B10/B12 caliber schools (athletically). 
 

Also, those were in the past. The whole subject of this thread is the how significantly different the future will be in these changing landscapes. 
 

Maybe I should have said no formerly known as a Power 5 conference schools will ever add women’s wrestling. 

How can anyone be a reliable source who doesn't know that the new wrestling programs must be D1 in all sports? No more F+M, LHU, Clarion, Bloom, E-boro. 

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

11 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

Yeah, what other venue provides athletic scholarships to athletes?  The net value that wrestlers get from NCAA wrestling from those scholarships is in the tens of millions per year.  Then consider how much the NCAA subsidizes training for international athletes who also coach (think of the cost of PSU facilities). And don't ignore salaries for coaches so wrestlers can compete into their 30s and know they have a job after. 

Please provide an example of how wrestling can exist in this country in any form that is close to what we currently enjoy if you eliminate NCAA wrestling.  You say there are a 100 different ones-I ask you to provide one logical one.  Are we going to have hundreds of athletes train at the OTC funded by some rich donor?

This whole "things are going to be ok if the NCAA goes away" makes no sense to me. 

 

I have to preface this by saying I really don’t know anything, these are just my thoughts.

 

Hockey and Squash both have their own governing body at the collegiate level. Wrestling already has the NCWA and NWCA in place, if wrestling loses its varsity status in D1 it could become a self funded club sport. These schools already fundraise and have donor networks to help pay expenses.

 

I don’t disagree that there could be some major shifts, although it’s all speculation at this point, but wrestling at the highest levels in the US would continue to exist in other capacities such as RTCs, clubs, etc. The NCAA model hasn’t been kind to wrestling in quite some time, so why put all our eggs in that basket? It’s simply a known quantity. 

 

I wish there were 300 D1 programs with millions of dollars of funding, but that isn’t the case. Our situation also isn’t unique when you look at other sports, the  ones making money are few and fair between (football, basketball, maybe a select few others at certain institutions) and even then football has been and will be cut from school due to it’s insane need for scholarships and resources. In my warped opinion it makes more sense for school that struggle at football (PURDUE…) to get rid of the team and pour the millions upon millions of dollars  into other sports, I know that’s a pipe dream though, continuing to use Purdue as my example they were remodeling their stadium every year I was there just to go 3-8 and have 25% of seats open. 

 

If D1 wrestling ceases to exist there will be 10 other sports in a similar boat such as swimming, diving, gymnastics, track and field, etc.

 

There will be a solution, theres 300,000 HS wrestlers plus millions of other athlete’s playing non-revenue sports and many have hopes and dreams to compete at the next level. The demand for an outlet is there. We’re the only nation with college sports, yet Iran, Russia, Mongolia, Cuba, Japan and many others have top guys/girls that are able to compete with ours. I’m not sure the methods they use to develop and create talent but surely it’s working. 
 

This was a long rant, and maybe I’m being naive, but this doesn’t have to be a death sentence, particularly so preemptively. I choose to remain positive in the face of uncertainty. 

[NM1965]

19 hours ago, jajensen09 said:

The drop has to do more with due to Penn state and no drama at ncaas. I believe there needs to be more rules in place regarding matches/duals and a close to equal schedule for all teams.

I don't know about that. I'm not a PSU fan and I'm a PSU fan, if you know what I mean. I've never liked PSU in anything but Cael's got that team wrestling so well that I love watching them. Who doesn't like watching the best? I think PSU is attracting more attention to college wrestling, and probably in a good way. 

I agree somewhat with the guys here that state the de-emphasis on duals is hurting the sport. How many times have we seen that coaches don't seem to care about the duals by holding guys out for ridiculous seeding considerations? Fans love those matches where top guys battle each other, even in duals, and it hurts the sport a little more every time the coaches stop great matches from happening. 

[jajensen09]

2 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

I don't know about that. I'm not a PSU fan and I'm a PSU fan, if you know what I mean. I've never liked PSU in anything but Cael's got that team wrestling so well that I love watching them. Who doesn't like watching the best? I think PSU is attracting more attention to college wrestling, and probably in a good way. 

I agree somewhat with the guys here that state the de-emphasis on duals is hurting the sport. How many times have we seen that coaches don't seem to care about the duals by holding guys out for ridiculous seeding considerations? Fans love those matches where top guys battle each other, even in duals, and it hurts the sport a little more every time the coaches stop great matches from happening. 

Seeing the "top" guys only wrestle 15 matches is ridiculous.  That's like 3-4 matches a month. Not enough.  Minimum matches needs to be bumped to 20 matches at least

[NM1965]

1 minute ago, jajensen09 said:

Seeing the "top" guys only wrestle 15 matches is ridiculous.  That's like 3-4 matches a month. Not enough.  Minimum matches needs to be bumped to 20 matches at least

I'm not happy about the low number of matches either from a purely fan perspective. I remember when the guys in the NCAA finals always had at least 25 matches or so under their belts, usually more. 

[Tigerfan]

3 hours ago, Richb said:

How can anyone be a reliable source who doesn't know that the new wrestling programs must be D1 in all sports? No more F+M, LHU, Clarion, Bloom, E-boro. 

I didn’t know that, not my sources.