dragit Posted February 8 Posted February 8 Isn't the fact that he bailed on the sport he was so great at in favor of a sport he appears to not be as good at indicative of a lack of passion for the former sport? My point is that you can't just say, he had more talent than Zain and everyone else, therefore if he'd spent 10-15 more years in the sport, he'd have racked up all these championships and medals. An athlete's passion, or lack thereof, for the sport is a major part of the package for determining success, particularly in a less fun sport like wrestling. He does not appear to have had that necessary piece of the puzzle. Therefore I believe he would not have had a very successful career. Specifically I do not think he would have a world championship gold medal such as Zain has. Zain lacks Pico's talent, but his incredible passion and will to overcome adversity were substantial enough to make him a champion.
steamboat_charlie Posted February 8 Posted February 8 5 hours ago, dragit said: Isn't the fact that he bailed on the sport he was so great at in favor of a sport he appears to not be as good at indicative of a lack of passion for the former sport? My point is that you can't just say, he had more talent than Zain and everyone else, therefore if he'd spent 10-15 more years in the sport, he'd have racked up all these championships and medals. An athlete's passion, or lack thereof, for the sport is a major part of the package for determining success, particularly in a less fun sport like wrestling. He does not appear to have had that necessary piece of the puzzle. Therefore I believe he would not have had a very successful career. Specifically I do not think he would have a world championship gold medal such as Zain has. Zain lacks Pico's talent, but his incredible passion and will to overcome adversity were substantial enough to make him a champion. I don't think this is fair criticism. Pico is, by all accounts that I've ever seen, an incredibly committed and hardworking individual. He was a high school kid with sleezy managers offering him six figure contracts to represent him. Articles were being written about him as the greatest MMA prospect of all time. People in his life looking to ride the gravy train, as they thought he would vault to the top level of the sport and become a mega star. It's not hard to imagine how that might be appealing to a 17 year old, or how he thought at the time it was the right path.
dragit Posted February 8 Posted February 8 2 hours ago, steamboat_charlie said: I don't think this is fair criticism. Pico is, by all accounts that I've ever seen, an incredibly committed and hardworking individual. He was a high school kid with sleezy managers offering him six figure contracts to represent him. Articles were being written about him as the greatest MMA prospect of all time. People in his life looking to ride the gravy train, as they thought he would vault to the top level of the sport and become a mega star. It's not hard to imagine how that might be appealing to a 17 year old, or how he thought at the time it was the right path. Understood. Apologies to the extent my comments amounted to criticism of a 17 year old. My intent wasn't criticism but rather description. It doesn't make him a bad, stupid, or any other negative adjective, person that he chose MMA over wrestling. But I think choosing another sport by definition demonstrates a less than full commitment to a sport where, more than most others, commitment is as important for success as raw physical talent.
CHROMEBIRD Posted February 8 Posted February 8 12 hours ago, dragit said: Isn't the fact that he bailed on the sport he was so great at in favor of a sport he appears to not be as good at indicative of a lack of passion for the former sport? My point is that you can't just say, he had more talent than Zain and everyone else, therefore if he'd spent 10-15 more years in the sport, he'd have racked up all these championships and medals. An athlete's passion, or lack thereof, for the sport is a major part of the package for determining success, particularly in a less fun sport like wrestling. He does not appear to have had that necessary piece of the puzzle. Therefore I believe he would not have had a very successful career. Specifically I do not think he would have a world championship gold medal such as Zain has. Zain lacks Pico's talent, but his incredible passion and will to overcome adversity were substantial enough to make him a champion. Passion doesn't always result in participation, though. For Pico, earning a paycheck may have been a bigger priority than doing what he enjoyed or (possibly) was better at. In either case, it's a little disappointing for fans to romanticize someone who chose to ditch the sport, whatever his reason was. 1
billyhoyle Posted February 11 Posted February 11 On 2/8/2024 at 12:13 AM, dragit said: Isn't the fact that he bailed on the sport he was so great at in favor of a sport he appears to not be as good at indicative of a lack of passion for the former sport? My point is that you can't just say, he had more talent than Zain and everyone else, therefore if he'd spent 10-15 more years in the sport, he'd have racked up all these championships and medals. An athlete's passion, or lack thereof, for the sport is a major part of the package for determining success, particularly in a less fun sport like wrestling. He does not appear to have had that necessary piece of the puzzle. Therefore I believe he would not have had a very successful career. Specifically I do not think he would have a world championship gold medal such as Zain has. Zain lacks Pico's talent, but his incredible passion and will to overcome adversity were substantial enough to make him a champion. There was a lot of talk/reports at the time of Pico/his family agreeing to some really awful contracts, where their training was being paid for with the expectation that he'd go to MMA eventually. Who knows how true that was or how much pressure was put on him for the decision. What's obvious in retrospect is that the decision was a terrible one career-wise. Here's an example that covers that contract a bit. https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/whittier-teen-has-olympic-dream-contract-with-mma-league/
pokemonster Posted February 11 Posted February 11 On 2/8/2024 at 9:15 AM, steamboat_charlie said: I don't think this is fair criticism. Pico is, by all accounts that I've ever seen, an incredibly committed and hardworking individual. He was a high school kid with sleezy managers offering him six figure contracts to represent him. Articles were being written about him as the greatest MMA prospect of all time. People in his life looking to ride the gravy train, as they thought he would vault to the top level of the sport and become a mega star. It's not hard to imagine how that might be appealing to a 17 year old, or how he thought at the time it was the right path. 100% this. Everyone thought he was the next big MMA star. I remember them ranting and raving about him on the Joe Rogan Experience.
Hammerlock3 Posted February 11 Posted February 11 It's way more interesting to ask what if Cassar had stayed? "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."
billyhoyle Posted February 11 Posted February 11 1 hour ago, pokemonster said: 100% this. Everyone thought he was the next big MMA star. I remember them ranting and raving about him on the Joe Rogan Experience. Many pointed out how risky the decision was and how being a great wrestler is far from a guarantee of success in MMA. But yes, the MMA fans were happy to see a 19-year-old give up on college or olympic athletics to fight in the minor leagues of MMA.
pokemonster Posted February 11 Posted February 11 1 hour ago, billyhoyle said: Many pointed out how risky the decision was and how being a great wrestler is far from a guarantee of success in MMA. But yes, the MMA fans were happy to see a 19-year-old give up on college or olympic athletics to fight in the minor leagues of MMA. I think most in the wrestling community did, but that's about it. Unfortunately he could make more money as a Bellator prospect than he could with wrestling at the time, so I don't blame him. Askren was preaching about jumping ship to MMA for the money at this time as well.
BloodRound Posted February 22 Posted February 22 On 2/10/2024 at 9:55 PM, Hammerlock3 said: It's way more interesting to ask what if Cassar had stayed? ... is it though?
Hammerlock3 Posted February 22 Posted February 22 5 hours ago, BloodRound said: ... is it though? yeah it is, one was way more accomplished than the other, one guy got de-railed by an injury, the other just quit. A higher value commodity getting taken out by random events is way more compelling than a high school kid quitting. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."
BloodRound Posted February 22 Posted February 22 5 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: yeah it is, one was way more accomplished than the other, one guy got de-railed by an injury, the other just quit. A higher value commodity getting taken out by random events is way more compelling than a high school kid quitting. How were Cassar's freestyle results though, beyond the tournament he competed in during college? I do not doubt Anthony's ability as a wrestler, FYI. He pinned me very quickly back in high school.
4xJVchamp Posted February 25 Posted February 25 On 2/22/2024 at 1:55 PM, Hammerlock3 said: yeah it is, one was way more accomplished than the other, one guy got de-railed by an injury, the other just quit. A higher value commodity getting taken out by random events is way more compelling than a high school kid quitting. Hammer with all due respect you’re being a hater. First of all, It’s very disingenuous to say that Cassar was “way more accomplished” than Pico. Yes he won NCAAs but I’m sure most of the wrestling community around the world would rather have Picos world level results than Cassars results. At junior worlds he medaled twice. Anthony never medaled at JR worlds. Even on the senior level Pico was one win away from going to the Olympics, as a teenager no less. Cassar, even how unfortunate it is, can’t say he was that close to making an Olympic team. No matter how the haters put it picos what if story is very interesting to think about.
Hammerlock3 Posted February 25 Posted February 25 12 hours ago, 4xJVchamp said: Hammer with all due respect you’re being a hater. First of all, It’s very disingenuous to say that Cassar was “way more accomplished” than Pico. Yes he won NCAAs but I’m sure most of the wrestling community around the world would rather have Picos world level results than Cassars results. At junior worlds he medaled twice. Anthony never medaled at JR worlds. Even on the senior level Pico was one win away from going to the Olympics, as a teenager no less. Cassar, even how unfortunate it is, can’t say he was that close to making an Olympic team. No matter how the haters put it picos what if story is very interesting to think about. i see what you mean but I don't think it's haterish to refuse to give someone credit for things they didn't do... "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."
4xJVchamp Posted February 25 Posted February 25 3 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said: i see what you mean but I don't think it's haterish to refuse to give someone credit for things they didn't do... Fair enough 1
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