China, The Left, and Apple

[Ban Basketball]

More U.S. companies are actually opting to come back here and do their manufacturing in the U.S.

Obviously, we're going to have a problem finding the workers in many of these plants, but perhaps their doing so is directly due to the lesson that we learned in the early months of COVID.  If you recall, we were grossly short on PPE equipment because it was being manufactured in China, and by the time we ordered it and it was sent, we had a big problem on our hands.

[Theo Brixton]

11 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

Who cares when the update occurred? isn't the result the same - they stopped people from communicating things the CCP didn't like and couldn't monitor.

don't try and make Apple into an innocent bystander. They literally had to install nets around their factory b/c the working conditions were so bad that people would jump to their deaths.

Apple, Nike, NBA, etc...all complicit.

and for once i agree w/ Ban Basketball...as i type this on a Mac

Some people have the uncanny knack for missing the forest for the trees while simultaneously misidentifying the trees...

They're listening to you, Willie: Apple just announced it is moving (some) of its manufacturing out of Chyna. Unfortunately, it will likely go to India and Vietnam but it's a start. Beyond the uncertainly surrounding the CCP's retarded zero-COVID policy, I would not be surprised in the least bit that the USG is exerting some pressure on Apple and other corporations to go elsewhere (10% for the "Big Guy", be damned).

And surprise, surprise: Apple has started advertising on Twitter again because virtue-signaling only works when the moral stand you take doesn't affect your bottom line. Tim Apple understands that better than anyone.

 

 

[BerniePragle]

20 hours ago, jross said:

One of my kids is doing an assignment tonight on where things are from.  She walked around the house and identified 20 items across 12 countries; not a single one was from the U.S.A.  

I absolutely believe that American companies are incentivized by tax law and corporate law to outsource products to other countries. 

I know nothing about the production of sheet rock and very little about the production of plywood,  but both absolutely have to be extremely automated,  using very little direct labor.   To me, this eliminates the old "cost of labor" justification for outsourcing to China, yet that's what I see in Lowes and Home Depot, Chinese sheet rock and plywood.  When you add in what has to be very significant shipping costs,  things don't add up. These are two extreme examples,  yet they prove the point.  When I go to the grocery store and see fresh milk from China,  I'm moving somewhere,  I don't know where.

Other countries, for example Switzerland, very much try to keep their manufacturing at home.  We need to use their example.

[Mike Parrish]

A 40' container has 2390 cubic feet of volume.

It costs ~$10K to ship from China to the USA.

4'x8'x1/2" sheetrock is 1.33 cubic feet.

That's about 1800 sheets of sheetrock per 40' container.

That's about $0.55 per sheet in shipping.

 

Even small gains on labor, material and energy costs will quickly dwarf the shipping costs.

 

I'm not advocating for China based production, I'm just doing the math.

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Mike Parrish

[Theo Brixton]

2 hours ago, BerniePragle said:

I absolutely believe that American companies are incentivized by tax law and corporate law to outsource products to other countries. 

I know nothing about the production of sheet rock and very little about the production of plywood,  but both absolutely have to be extremely automated,  using very little direct labor.   To me, this eliminates the old "cost of labor" justification for outsourcing to China, yet that's what I see in Lowes and Home Depot, Chinese sheet rock and plywood.  When you add in what has to be very significant shipping costs,  things don't add up. These are two extreme examples,  yet they prove the point.  When I go to the grocery store and see fresh milk from China,  I'm moving somewhere,  I don't know where.

Other countries, for example Switzerland, very much try to keep their manufacturing at home.  We need to use their example.

If foreign companies were kept to the same standard for environmental regulation (it's one world after all..) and anti-competitive practices were addressed, I don't think there would be much justification for off-shoring of so much manufacturing. However, most literature I see on the topic almost always skews towards justification of off-shoring. Tells me all I need to know about the value of a Nobel in Economics...

And to have it primarily done in a country that is, euphemistically speaking, a competitive rival, is just adding insult to injury. The writing has been on the wall for quite some time and the pandemic has made it impossible to ignore. 

[BerniePragle]

2 hours ago, Mike Parrish said:

A 40' container has 2390 cubic feet of volume.

It costs ~$10K to ship from China to the USA.

4'x8'x1/2" sheetrock is 1.33 cubic feet.

That's about 1800 sheets of sheetrock per 40' container.

That's about $0.55 per sheet in shipping.

 

Even small gains on labor, material and energy costs will quickly dwarf the shipping costs.

 

I'm not advocating for China based production, I'm just doing the math.

 

That's usually my schtick, Mike.  I think you're off by a decimal point.

$10,000÷1800 is about $5.55 per sheet.  Nonetheless, I had no idea of the volume or cost of shipping containers.  Thanks, that does help to put it in perspective.

[Mike Parrish]

3 hours ago, BerniePragle said:

That's usually my schtick, Mike.  I think you're off by a decimal point.

$10,000÷1800 is about $5.55 per sheet.  Nonetheless, I had no idea of the volume or cost of shipping containers.  Thanks, that does help to put it in perspective.

Derp.

My fault trying to work and post at the same time.

[BerniePragle]

8 hours ago, Mike Parrish said:

Derp.

My fault trying to work and post at the same time.

No problem.  Been there, done that.  You gave me very good info though.
I checked, Lowes sells 4x8x1/2" sheetrock for around $15.  I would have no idea of their "cost", all companies play games with that, but I can't imagine it's actually more than $8 or 9 tops, meaning that the shipping cost is very significant.  It simply doesn't add up!
Actually, I think this is probably a bad example by me of American companies taking advantage of tax and corporate laws by outsourcing.  I suspect it is more an example of currency manipulation or dumping of goods by a foreign company, which used to be illegal.  Anyway, someone(s) in Washington is either asleep at the wheel or on the take, or both.  There is absolutely no question of that.  Our country's trade policies have us on the fast track to the poorhouse.  It's not a D or R issue, it's a Washington issue.

[mspart]

I believe it is a national security issue, which makes it not a D or R issue.   If we can't manufacture our own goods, then how are we secure as a nation?  We are only as secure as the countries that do produce our goods will sell them to us.   If they stop, we are in a world of hurt.   A service economy doesn't produce anything of value.   Producing something of value is what brings security.   If we made our own steel, and our own I-phones and computers etc, we would be in a very strong position.  

Case in point - Russia produces a lot of natural gas and petroleum.   However, if you support Ukraine and/or denounce Russia, your supply is cut off or reduced greatly.   This is happening in Europe.   Those that depend on Russia for energy now need to look elsewhere.   If that is not a national security issue for those in Europe, I don't know what is.

Labor costs here in USA are high and that is why things get made in China and shipped here.  Shipping costs seem like they should be outrageous but they are not in comparison to their cost of labor vs ours.   We need to do more to keep what manufacturing we have here, and to bring back what manufacturing we have lost back here. 

mspart

[Mike Parrish]

Certainly, on the integrated circuit front, it's way, way past time for the USA to have home grown production.

The CHIPS act has me hopeful.