Why does Flo hate Rocky Elam?

[KCMO2]

6 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

You need to STFU and not be a dickhead just to exacerbate here.

The adults are talking.  Back away.

Sorry internet dad, I guess profanity and name calling is pretty mature though.  I've seen you call other posters dickheads, douches, and cunts, while getting into pissing contests with numerous other posters.  Grow up and practice what you preach.

Edited December 7, 2023 by KCMO2

[nhs67]

9 minutes ago, KCMO2 said:

Sorry internet dad, I guess profanity and name calling is pretty mature though.  I've seen you call other posters dickheads, douches, and cunts, while getting into pissing contests with numerous other posters.  Grow up and practice what you preach.

I already said STFU.  Do you not read good or something?

Not once did I say I was the adult or the mature one, so good luck holding me to that one there (dipshit).  I don't need to grow up.  You need to let the adults talk.

[nhs67]

11 minutes ago, KCMO2 said:

Sorry internet dad, I guess profanity and name calling is pretty mature though.  I've seen you call other posters dickheads, douches, and cunts, while getting into pissing contests with numerous other posters.  Grow up and practice what you preach.

Also... that's "Daddy." to you, bud.

[KCMO2]

Just now, nhs67 said:

I already said STFU.  Do you not read good or something?

Not once did I say I was the adult or the mature one, so good luck holding me to that one there (dipshit).  I don't need to grow up.  You need to let the adults talk.

Not wasting my time arguing with a tool like you.

[nhs67]

1 minute ago, KCMO2 said:

Not wasting my time arguing with a tool like you.

Thank you.  I accept your defeat and the nice compliment(s).

You're not half bad yourself.  Just don't come at my boy and try to write checks those scrawny fingers can't cash because the entire board knows you'll be catching these fingers you try to dog on Kozak.

[steamboat_charlie]

39 minutes ago, Jon_Kozak said:

Thanks for not wanting to go too hard on me but you're welcome to tag me next time.

This has been an incredibly unique year of college wrestling and the rankings reflect that. Maida dropping 18 spots is "unprecedented" because everything surrounding 125 this year is unprecedented. 

Rocky Elam didn't drop because he sat out. He dropped because other guys wrestled and recorded really good wins. 

Where do you think Chance Marsteller should be ranked after holding wins over Jordan Burroughs, Ali Savadkouhi, and Avtandil Kentchadze in the past year? I follow international wrestling as close as anyone in the world so I'm genuinely curious what other issue you take with the international rankings.

I've never tagged anyone before but good to know I can.  Rereading my comment, I realize that the "man of the Lord" portion probably came across as a dig.  Just want to clarify that I didn't mean that as a snide criticism of your character or your beliefs--I meant it to say that you seem like a nice guy.  I just don't like your rankings.  

My criticism of your ranking methodology is that the value that you assign to wins is for the most part predicated upon the rankings that you've assigned prior to those wins having taken place.  The result is a puzzling mismatch between rankings and results. 

Another issue is that oftentimes you'll have a wrestler vault in the rankings over multiple other more credentialed wrestlers with better historical results, by virtue of a single victory over a wrestler that you've previously ranked higher.  This is the same phenomenon that's earned you so much criticism for your rankings from the wrestling world at large so far throughout this college season.

 

Regarding 79kg, you've got Marsteller 4th because he has a couple of "quality wins," and accordingly what you deem to be a few "acceptable losses."  So he sticks at 4th above Savadkhouhi on the back of his h2h win.  You're basically giving Marsteller all of the credit for the 2023 that Savadkhouhi had due to a single tight result in their first meeting, which took place in 2022.

Meanwhile, you've got a guy in the weight class that's gone back to back bronze at Worlds, won Euros, and won Bill Ferrell, and is somehow ranked down in 12th? Mykhailov has fallen two spots in your rankings since August when the only thing he's done is go to the world championships and take bronze, while Marstellar showed up at the same tournament and won 1 match.  End of rant.  

 

TL/DR: I won't pretend I follow international wrestling as closely as you do.  It's not my job, and I'm just a fan.  I just think there are serious flaws in your ranking methodology that impacts both your NCAA rankings and international rankings, which is the source of my criticism for you.  

[PortaJohn]

1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

You need to STFU and not be a dickhead just to exacerbate here.

The adults are talking.  Back away.

Goosfraba 

[nhs67]

10 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Goosfraba 

I am calm as a cucumber.

Is that how it says?

It was mainly because he tried to come at Kozak.

Saw red...errr... Maize and Blue.

That said, I actually like @KCMO2.  I hope he doesn't take it to heart.  There are only a few gents on here I would like to take it to heart if I am a prick towards them.  Maybe not even.

[PortaJohn]

2 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I am calm as a cucumber.

Is that how it says?

It was mainly because he tried to come at Kozak.

Saw red...errr... Maize and Blue.

That said, I actually like @KCMO2.  I hope he doesn't take it to heart.  There are only a few gents on here I would like to take it to heart if I am a prick towards them.  Maybe not even.

Remember, temper is the one thing you can't get rid of by losing it

[nhs67]

14 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Remember, temper is the one thing you can't get rid of by losing it

Rage =/= Temper

[Jon_Kozak]

30 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie said:

Regarding 79kg, you've got Marsteller 4th because he has a couple of "quality wins," and accordingly what you deem to be a few "acceptable losses."  So he sticks at 4th above Savadkhouhi on the back of his h2h win.  You're basically giving Marsteller all of the credit for the 2023 that Savadkhouhi had due to a single tight result in their first meeting, which took place in 2022.

Meanwhile, you've got a guy in the weight class that's gone back to back bronze at Worlds, won Euros, and won Bill Ferrell, and is somehow ranked down in 12th? Mykhailov has fallen two spots in your rankings since August when the only thing he's done is go to the world championships and take bronze, while Marstellar showed up at the same tournament and won 1 match.  End of rant.  

Marsteller doesn't just have "quality wins" - he beat Burroughs twice, Savadkouhi, and Kentchadze. Those might be the best wins of any in the weight. Mykhailov was on a much easier side of the bracket and lost to Gamkrelidze - who Burroughs teched at World Cup. 

30 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie said:

My criticism of your ranking methodology is that the value that you assign to wins is for the most part predicated upon the rankings that you've assigned prior to those wins having taken place.  The result is a puzzling mismatch between rankings and results. 

Another issue is that oftentimes you'll have a wrestler vault in the rankings over multiple other more credentialed wrestlers with better historical results, by virtue of a single victory over a wrestler that you've previously ranked higher.  This is the same phenomenon that's earned you so much criticism for your rankings from the wrestling world at large so far throughout this college season.

What examples are you referring to? Again, I'm genuinely curious. Look at Flo's and Intermat's rankings...if you compare them, there's really not that much of a difference. For you to say they're "terrible every step of the way" is a pretty extreme thing to say.

Same with "criticism...from the wrestling world at large" - pretty extreme. Are you talking about Ryan Crookham being ranked #1? Because that's where intermat has him now. 

[KCMO2]

28 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

It was mainly because he tried to come at Kozak.

Saw red...errr... Maize and Blue.

That said, I actually like @KCMO2.  I hope he doesn't take it to heart.  There are only a few gents on here I would like to take it to heart if I am a prick towards them.  Maybe not even.

Never said a thing to Kozak.  I responded to JimmyBT

[nhs67]

Just now, KCMO2 said:

Never said a thing to Kozak.  I responded to JimmyBT

Oh.

My apologies all around, then.

As I said: I saw Maize and Blue.

I don't ask your forgiveness, just that you understand that I am an idiot.

[PortaJohn]

1 minute ago, KCMO2 said:

Never said a thing to Kozak.  I responded to JimmyBT

@nhs67...how does that make you feel?  

[nhs67]

Just now, PortaJohn said:

@nhs67...how does that make you feel?  

[PortaJohn]

9 minutes ago, Jon_Kozak said:

What examples are you referring to? Again, I'm genuinely curious. Look at Flo's and Intermat's rankings...if you compare them, there's really not that much of a difference. For you to say they're "terrible every step of the way" is a pretty extreme thing to say.

Same with "criticism...from the wrestling world at large" - pretty extreme. Are you talking about Ryan Crookham being ranked #1? Because that's where intermat has him now. 

Kozak, kudos to you for coming on here and having an open dialogue.  Truly, a man of the people.  Hopefully this becomes a norm throughout the season.  

[KCMO2]

5 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Oh.

My apologies all around, then.

As I said: I saw Maize and Blue.

I don't ask your forgiveness, just that you understand that I am an idiot.

I don't take forum comments too seriously.  I will respond though if someone (undeservedly) attacks myself or Mizzou.

[nhs67]

2 minutes ago, KCMO2 said:

I don't take forum comments too seriously.  I will respond though if someone (undeservedly) attacks myself or Mizzou.

See!  I thought that was the case!  I thought someone undeservedly attacked Senior Kozak!

Great minds.

[1032004]

19 minutes ago, Jon_Kozak said:

 

What examples are you referring to? Again, I'm genuinely curious. Look at Flo's and Intermat's rankings...if you compare them, there's really not that much of a difference. For you to say they're "terrible every step of the way" is a pretty extreme thing to say.

Same with "criticism...from the wrestling world at large" - pretty extreme. Are you talking about Ryan Crookham being ranked #1? Because that's where intermat has him now. 

Yep, if you were to ask me what ranking decision made the least sense it would probably be Intermat just now putting Crookham at #1.  If they had Fix over him before, beating Nagao shouldn’t have changed that

[steamboat_charlie]

16 minutes ago, Jon_Kozak said:

Marsteller doesn't just have "quality wins" - he beat Burroughs twice, Savadkouhi, and Kentchadze. Those might be the best wins of any in the weight. Mykhailov was on a much easier side of the bracket and lost to Gamkrelidze - who Burroughs teched at World Cup. 

This is exactly my problem.  At what point do you stop talking about quality wins and losses and start looking at who actually produces results?  You're valuing transitive property over hardware. 

Burroughs techs Gamkrelidze, but Marsteller beat Burroughs.  Therefore, Marsteller is > Gamkrelidze, and since Mykhailov lost to Gamkrelidze, he's even worse.  Never mind the fact that he undeniably has a better resume than Marsteller, and that you're giving Marsteller credit for a domestic series in which he had over a year to prepare for a known opponent.  

[Jon_Kozak]

Just now, 1032004 said:

Yep, if you were to ask me what ranking decision made the least sense it would probably be Intermat just now putting Crookham at #1.  If they had Fix over him before, beating Nagao shouldn’t have changed that

To be clear - my reference to the Crookham ranking was not a dig at Earl. He does a great job and I really respect the work he puts into the rankings every week.

[steamboat_charlie]

26 minutes ago, Jon_Kozak said:

For you to say they're "terrible every step of the way" is a pretty extreme thing to say.

Agree, too extreme.  Should have said something like "I think their rankings could/should be much better."

27 minutes ago, Jon_Kozak said:

Same with "criticism...from the wrestling world at large" - pretty extreme. Are you talking about Ryan Crookham being ranked #1? Because that's where intermat has him now. 

Disagree.  You have been facing significant criticism for multiple of your ranking decisions, including Crookham, Elam, and others.  To pretend otherwise is silly.  

[PortaJohn]

8 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

See!  I thought that was the case!  I thought someone undeservedly attacked Senior Kozak!

Great minds.

I once heard in 5 minutes @Jon_Kozak ranked 50 International wrestlers. Fifty if it was one.  One hundred college wrestlers with his laptop.  Ranked through them like Moses through the Red Sea  

[nhs67]

Just now, PortaJohn said:

I once heard in 5 minutes @Jon_Kozak ranked 50 International wrestlers. Fifty if it was one.  One hundred college wrestlers with his laptop.  Ranked through them like Moses through the Red Sea  

I also heard in ten minutes the same thing.

I don't think good so I had to hear it twice.

[1032004]

4 minutes ago, Jon_Kozak said:

To be clear - my reference to the Crookham ranking was not a dig at Earl. He does a great job and I really respect the work he puts into the rankings every week.

I think they’re pretty good overall too (as are yours) but that one was a headscratcher IMO.  I mentioned in another thread that he seems to use more of “the eye test” where you try to stick with results only.  Both have their advantages and disadvantages…