Hot Seat 2024?

[TitleIX is ripe for reform]

5 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

For all his benefits to the sport in his day, which is not nothing, Seay was not good for the sport in the long run. His 'ends-justify-the-means' approach(which is what it seems like) is entirely untenable and not beneficial for the health of the sport. He couldn't have the success he had by staying within the rules, tough! Work to change the rules or just admit you can't do it without breaking the rules. Sounds like classic confidence-man tactics. Preying on kids and their families in an age before the internet and wide spread or easily attainable information. When things crashed down around him he cried foul on the authorities. Who, in recent years, does that remind you of? This is a criminal being upset at the police for getting caught. Talk about victim-mentality. Keep in mind he was doing all of this while being responsible for kids 18-22 years old. Telling them that it is ok to bend or outright break rules if you can justify it by winning. How is that ok? Brandss are in the thick of that right now. JRob. Keep your house clean or you will  no longer be asked to be in charge of it. Coaching is a privilege and an important responsibility. Stop venerating these past figures as if they are above reproach. They were are flawed people. Lets talk about them like that. Did they do good things? Sure. Could they have been better? Definitely. Will it hold us back as a community if we try to hang on to these people as ones to be emulate? Quite possibly. 

 

Your points are well taken.   I still can't help but wonder if the alleged violations were clearly prohibited, or just sneakily inflicted by power-hungry bureaucrats in the Ed. Dept. etc., though.  Bureaucrats have been known to maintain & interpret vague rules to boost their own power, influence and revenue$.   Nowadays there's push-back against such "gotcha!" games abuse, however.   The internet has helped such push-back gather momentum.   So has the courage of a few who say what others fear to say.   The increasingly popular rule of lenity requires that ambiguous regulations be interpreted in ways that favor, not prejudice, the accused.  The growing repeal of Chevron deference (which forces courts to abide by agencies' interpretations of ambiguous rules) is also gaining ground, including at the U.S. Supreme Court.    

    Has anyone here seen the recent bio of Robert Oppenheimer?    There's an interesting excerpt from his Wikipedia page included below.  As a preface, might Coaches Joey Seay, J. Robinson or anyone else in the wrestling coaching community deserve to be exculpated, too?    

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Robert_Oppenheimer

On December 16, 2022, United States Secretary of Energy Jennifer Granholm vacated the 1954 revocation of Oppenheimer's security clearance.^[264] Her statement said, "In 1954, the Atomic Energy Commission revoked Dr. Oppenheimer's security clearance through a flawed process that violated the Commission's own regulations. As time has passed, more evidence has come to light of the bias and unfairness of the process that Dr. Oppenheimer was subjected to while the evidence of his loyalty and love of country have only been further affirmed."^{[265][264][266]}

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[TitleIX is ripe for reform]

12 minutes ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said:

 

 

As an example of runaway regulations, the following is essentially what Title IX originally said.   Where are the gender quotas allowed, much less required, with which to abolish so many college sports opportunities based on gender? 

 

"No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance." 

 

    I understand that some here believe that athletic directors use Title IX as a mere excuse (not a mandate) to cut wrestling teams.   Still, the morphed version of Title IX has played a role in the demise of NCAA D1 wrestling.   We have better opportunities than we have in decades to reign in such bureaucratic abuse.   And if we can exculpate some defamed & libeled wrestling coaches along the way, now that more folks know bureaucratic regulatory abuse when they see it, why not?  Robert Oppenheimer got such favorable treatment, as the recent mega-hit movie helps depict.    

[ThreePointTakedown]

3 minutes ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said:

 

Your points are well taken.   I still can't help but wonder if the alleged violations were clearly prohibited, or just sneakily inflicted by power-hungry bureaucrats in the Ed. Dept. etc., though.  Bureaucrats have been known to maintain & interpret vague rules to boost their own power, influence and revenue$.   Nowadays there's push-back against such "gotcha!" games abuse, however.   The internet has helped such push-back gather momentum.   So has the courage of a few who say what others fear to say.   The increasingly popular rule of lenity requires that ambiguous regulations be interpreted in ways that favor, not prejudice, the accused.  The growing repeal of Chevron deference (which forces courts to abide by agencies' interpretations of ambiguous rules) is also gaining ground, including at the U.S. Supreme Court.    

    Has anyone here seen the recent bio of Robert Oppenheimer?    There's an interesting excerpt from his Wikipedia page included below.  As a preface, might Coaches Joey Seay, J. Robinson or anyone else in the wrestling coaching community deserve to be exculpated, too?    

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Robert_Oppenheimer

On December 16, 2022, United States Secretary of Energy Jennifer Granholm vacated the 1954 revocation of Oppenheimer's security clearance.^[264] Her statement said, "In 1954, the Atomic Energy Commission revoked Dr. Oppenheimer's security clearance through a flawed process that violated the Commission's own regulations. As time has passed, more evidence has come to light of the bias and unfairness of the process that Dr. Oppenheimer was subjected to while the evidence of his loyalty and love of country have only been further affirmed."^{[265][264][266]}

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A 'power-hungry bureaucrat in the Education Department'? Please, can we all stop doing this? As a community, can we be a little more skeptical and a little less interested in raising the level of ire for the sake of attention. There is no evidence of anything other than someone following up on a tip or evidence of wrong doing and finding wrong doing. Before you try to paint someone as an enemy try to do a little digging yourself. It seems as though you are trying to paint the entire Education Department with the same, ill informed brush. The whole 'just asking questions' thing is crap, it has always been crap, and always will be crap. Stop being lazy. Either do your homework or just say, 'I don't have enough information to take a stance one way or the other'. Which is probably a lot of things. And that's ok. If anyone gets mad at you for not having enough information to have an opinion, you don't want those kinds of friends anyway, or they're just a troll and they can back under their bridge. But that isn't bad. No one expects you to have all the answers, but if you're posing answers for the sake of attention then your the Kardashians and you're doing more harm than good. 

The Education Department under the current administration has helped relieve certain borrowers of a lot of their student debt. Helped to curb predatory practices by for-profit schools that have been less than honest about the potential earnings or job placement prospects of their graduates. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

8 minutes ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said:

As an example of runaway regulations, the following is essentially what Title IX originally said.   Where are the gender quotas allowed, much less required, with which to abolish so many college sports opportunities based on gender? 

 

"No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance." 

 

    I understand that some here believe that athletic directors use Title IX as a mere excuse (not a mandate) to cut wrestling teams.   Still, the morphed version of Title IX has played a role in the demise of NCAA D1 wrestling.   We have better opportunities than we have in decades to reign in such bureaucratic abuse.   And if we can exculpate some defamed & libeled wrestling coaches along the way, now that more folks know bureaucratic regulatory abuse when they see it, why not?  Robert Oppenheimer got such favorable treatment, as the recent mega-hit movie helps depict.    

Bureaucrats or ADs? Who are you targeting here? 

Remember, sports is a business and NCAA schools are regulated by the government. If you want to see little to no opportunity for female(presenting) athletes and only men's basketball and football, then let schools stop following Title IX. As much money that has already gone to football will blow up, even more than it has. All sports that cost more then they make will be axed and some, not all, but some of those athletes that rely on those scholarships to afford ANY school, will go with them. 

 

[Tripnsweep]

2 hours ago, AgaveMaria said:

Possibly. If he were and the two older Sanderson brothers went there Cael may have followed as at ISU.

I doubt ASU he would have done it even with Bobby as coach. He might have done it at Oklahoma State under John Smith. I understand it was his first choice but going with his brothers swayed the decision.

 

He would have had 2 All Americans right around his weight to practice with during his redshirt year. Iowa State didn't have that. Combine that with Bobby coaching him. 

[TitleIX is ripe for reform]

32 minutes ago, Tripnsweep said:

He would have had 2 All Americans right around his weight to practice with during his redshirt year. Iowa State didn't have that. Combine that with Bobby coaching him. 

Plus, Arizona is a neighbor of Cael's native state of Utah.  That proximity factor could have yielded some advantages for Cael at ASU that he didn't have at Iowa State.   Admittedly it's tough to do better than go undefeated during all NCAA eligible years like Cael did in Ames.   But the college wrestling scene in the western half of the USA might have become different from what it presently is, and favorably so at that.   

At least Arizona State remains a viable NCAA D1 program.  15 or so years ago, that was anything but assured after they dropped our sport at the NCAA D1 level.   I'm glad that Coach Zeke Jones hasn't become a victim of his own success there.   To my knowledge, he's not on the hot seat himself, right?