Indiana State tournament, two more weekends

[Southend]

Notice that I did not say “states”.  This is a one(1) class State tournament, in its final two weeks or weekends.  This is an all in tournament. “All wrestlers get to wrestle “at the start of the four weekend tournament, starting at local area sectionals , regardless of their season record. Then top 4 placers advance to various local regionals the next Saturday. This Saturday at the  4 semi states, where the top 4 placers from various regionals, will wrestle to get the chance ,to go to Indianapolis the following weekend ,to wrestle for a state championship. Again , the top 4 placers ,in each class ,will advance out of their respective semi states , to the final. So Sectionals, then regionals then the semi states , this Saturday,are one day only affairs. “On consecutive Saturdays.” The state final is Friday night ,one round, then all day ,the next day, Saturday to culminate in an under the lights final match. To determine who is the champion of each weight class for this season. Very simple tournament easy to follow, no 1a, 2a3a4a..,…to follow, just one single class. And great final match under the big lights in Indianapolis to crown the state champion in each weight. 

[Southend]

This is where the Lee brothers of penn State, Andrew Howe of Wisconsin, Tsirtsis brothers Jason, northwestern ,Alex, Iowa,Angel Escobedo, Indiana,Lee Minnesota, Humphrey, Ohio State,Mici northwestern, Michigan, Paris, Michigan and others come from. 

[nick]

I had one qualifier out of the hardest semi state…. Had to beat a kid who has pinned him twice (once this year and once last year) in the ticket round and ended up in the finals

Can’t wait til Friday!

[Southend]

3 hours ago, nick said:

I had one qualifier out of the hardest semi state…. Had to beat a kid who has pinned him twice (once this year and once last year) in the ticket round and ended up in the finals

Can’t wait til Friday!

Nice, congratulations. I was there. So they had tje draw, who’s your guy got? 

[nick]

8 hours ago, Southend said:

Nice, congratulations. I was there. So they had tje draw, who’s your guy got? 

Thank you! Our guy has done the whole glow-up (JV to Varsity B to Varsity) and put a tonnn of time in, so it's awesome to see him move on

We have New Castle's 145lber - will be an interesting matchup 

 

[Southend]

The 4 semi states around indiana concluded Saturday. Now on to the BIG show in Indianapolis starting Friday night for one round, then finishes Saturday,the next day. Ther is usually a lot of college coaches roaming the corridors of Bankers life stadium  on Saturday. This state tournament started 3 Saturdays ago as an all inclusive event. Meaning every wrestler who is their teams starter , 14 weight classes, can participate. Records, school size ,have no bearing whatsoever ,on who gets to be in the single class tournament. Heck even if you’re not a starter you could wrestle, if you make weight. Each school gets 14 slots, 1 for each weight class. 

[Formally140]

I think Indiana hurts itself with one class. And pointing out the occasional club kid from a small school doing well

[Southend]

5 hours ago, Formally140 said:

I think Indiana hurts itself with one class. And pointing out the occasional club kid from a small school doing well

A lot of banter back and forth on this subject. For several years. I think the kids that want to do well will continue no matter if one or more classes.  And the emphasis now is more towards how he kids do in the big national tournaments around the country for the coaches to evaluate,and not so much state run tournaments.  But yes ,kids slip thru the cracks in any scenario of classes. If you  Surveyed the wrestlers I’m guessing they prefer as is , stay one class. It really is a sight to see if you’ve never been to the Indiana state finals. 

[Formally140]

10 hours ago, Southend said:

A lot of banter back and forth on this subject. For several years. I think the kids that want to do well will continue no matter if one or more classes.  And the emphasis now is more towards how he kids do in the big national tournaments around the country for the coaches to evaluate,and not so much state run tournaments.  But yes ,kids slip thru the cracks in any scenario of classes. If you  Surveyed the wrestlers I’m guessing they prefer as is , stay one class. It really is a sight to see if you’ve never been to the Indiana state finals. 

I’m well aware. It still doesn’t change my opinion. It really does help smaller schools get support when they can point out they had qualifiers and placers.. which is hard to do against a Mater Dei or Crown Point..

[nick]

I'm fine with one class, but we need wrestle backs at some point in the state tournament

With that said, I get the plight of small schools - mine is the smallest big school (smallest 4A for team state which puts us up against Brownsburg, Center Grove, Crown Point, Cathedral, etc...) which more or less drops us from making team state ever

[Southend]

2 hours ago, nick said:

I'm fine with one class, but we need wrestle backs at some point in the state tournament

With that said, I get the plight of small schools - mine is the smallest big school (smallest 4A for team state which puts us up against Brownsburg, Center Grove, Crown Point, Cathedral, etc...) which more or less drops us from making team state ever

So classing system doesn’t help you guys. And I’m sure there are others. This is what I mean. There are so many different outliers,examples, for each side of the argument that really the only way to see ,would be to change to a classed individual system ,and let it work through for a couple of years, and then compare, apples to apples.  And to me there in lies a problem. If The 2 or 3 year experiment was not solving all the arguments ,that was said it would, or create the results of a pro classed system, I  know that it would never go back to one class, regardless. 

[BobDole]

18 hours ago, Southend said:

If you  Surveyed the wrestlers I’m guessing they prefer as is , stay one class. 

I'm sure if you surveyed the wrestlers they would rather not have to weigh in for state too. If you surveyed the wrestlers on many subjects you would get answers you don't want. No way should a decision of this magnitude be made by 15-18 year old kids. 

[Southend]

5 hours ago, BobDole said:

I'm sure if you surveyed the wrestlers they would rather not have to weigh in for state too. If you surveyed the wrestlers on many subjects you would get answers you don't want. No way should a decision of this magnitude be made by 15-18 year old kids. 

I never said the decision was to be made by 15-18 year olds. Nice troll job thought. lol 

[BobDole]

3 hours ago, Southend said:

I never said the decision was to be made by 15-18 year olds. Nice troll job thought. lol 

So what did you say? It sounds like you said you should survey the kids.

[11986]

On 2/10/2023 at 6:52 AM, Southend said:

Notice that I did not say “states”.  This is a one(1) class State tournament, in its final two weeks or weekends.  This is an all in tournament. “All wrestlers get to wrestle “at the start of the four weekend tournament, starting at local area sectionals , regardless of their season record. Then top 4 placers advance to various local regionals the next Saturday. This Saturday at the  4 semi states, where the top 4 placers from various regionals, will wrestle to get the chance ,to go to Indianapolis the following weekend ,to wrestle for a state championship. Again , the top 4 placers ,in each class ,will advance out of their respective semi states , to the final. So Sectionals, then regionals then the semi states , this Saturday,are one day only affairs. “On consecutive Saturdays.” The state final is Friday night ,one round, then all day ,the next day, Saturday to culminate in an under the lights final match. To determine who is the champion of each weight class for this season. Very simple tournament easy to follow, no 1a, 2a3a4a..,…to follow, just one single class. And great final match under the big lights in Indianapolis to crown the state champion in each weight. 

how many schools total have wrestling in Indiana? I love the 1 division for individual champions, or at least less than the 6 (plus private schools with their own) we have here in Virginia. 

[Southend]

Total schools, not sure. Good question. The individual championship is state sponsored. The team championship is divided in classes and is not part of the IHS AAA, governing body.

[Formally140]

6 hours ago, 11986 said:

how many schools total have wrestling in Indiana? I love the 1 division for individual champions, or at least less than the 6 (plus private schools with their own) we have here in Virginia. 

Indiana in 2010 was around roughly 300. 

Ohio divides into 3 divisions with roughly 140-160 schools each. So it’s roughly the top 10% at state. Which is the best way to do it in my opinion. 
 

The sweet spot is 2-3 divisions per state. The problem with most of the South is that they just go with the football divisions. Then make every other sport do that.  Whereas in Ohio, IL, PA etc.  each sport is looked by individually. So different sports will have a different number of divisions 

It does much more to help the sport when a smaller school can get a couple kids to state and have a placer than for them to just go 0-2 at semi state. If people want the pUrITy.. go to Fargo.

[Southend]

3 hours ago, Formally140 said:

Indiana in 2010 was around roughly 300. 

Ohio divides into 3 divisions with roughly 140-160 schools each. So it’s roughly the top 10% at state. Which is the best way to do it in my opinion. 
 

The sweet spot is 2-3 divisions per state. The problem with most of the South is that they just go with the football divisions. Then make every other sport do that.  Whereas in Ohio, IL, PA etc.  each sport is looked by individually. So different sports will have a different number of divisions 

It does much more to help the sport when a smaller school can get a couple kids to state and have a placer than for them to just go 0-2 at semi state. If people want the pUrITy.. go to Fargo.

In Indiana several small schools get several wrestlers to state. That’s the cool part about one class

[Formally140]

5 hours ago, Southend said:

In Indiana several small schools get several wrestlers to state. That’s the cool part about one class

And many more don’t. And many of those kids aren’t products of the school. They’re club kids who happen to compete for the school. 
 

If you like the tradition or the purity or whatever. That’s fine. But it doesn’t change reality. 

[MadMardigain]

3 hours ago, Formally140 said:

And many more don’t. And many of those kids aren’t products of the school. They’re club kids who happen to compete for the school. 

I’d suspect that the reality of most programs big and small these days. It’s becoming a little less big vs small schools and a little more access to the academies. Academy access is indeed forming pools of super teams at large schools in some area especially with open enrollment.  But having access to them is also likely helping to convince a few kids to remain at their smaller schools now too, that is if they can also convince a few training parents to remain there too. 

[Formally140]

3 minutes ago, MadMardigain said:

I’d suspect that the reality of most programs big and small these days. It’s becoming a little less big vs small schools and a little more access to the academies. Academy access is indeed forming pools of super teams at large schools in some area especially with open enrollment.  But having access to them is also likely helping to convince a few kids to remain at their smaller schools now too, that is if they can also convince a few training parents to remain there too. 

I’m on record stating that wrestling needs to have an open honest discussion about where it’s going with all that. 
 

My point remains the same. Can’t use those few kids as proof a single class is the Bees knees 

[Southend]

On 2/12/2023 at 8:31 PM, nick said:

I had one qualifier out of the hardest semi state…. Had to beat a kid who has pinned him twice (once this year and once last year) in the ticket round and ended up in the finals

Can’t wait til Friday!

Man , good match. Hard to get this far. Great season.  

[Southend]

Well ,one of , if not the greatest spectacle in high school sports , the Indiana state wrestling final, ended tonight. Announced over 33,000 attended the 2 day, Friday and Saturday event. What a show. 

[Room Guy]

If the IN tournament was any better, they would call it the California State Championships

[nick]

On 2/17/2023 at 9:55 PM, Southend said:

Man , good match. Hard to get this far. Great season.  

Thank you! Didn’t go the way we wanted it to go but battled out there and hopefully inspired my HWT to get there next year

Man, the younger Thrine - wow! Taking out Frazier and just dominant the entire time

Leighton Jones getting the title was great to see - super nice kid and always super respectful