Doublehalf Posted October 18 Posted October 18 Here’s an appropriate quote by Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a Protestant leader of the German resistance who died in a concentration camp in Nazi Germany, speaking about the nature of stupidity and how it’s more dangerous than evil: “Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. One may protest against evil; it can be exposed and, if need be, prevented by use of force. Evil always carries within itself the germ of its own subversion in that it leaves behind in human beings at least a sense of unease. Against stupidity we are defenseless. Neither protests nor the use of force accomplish anything here; reasons fall on deaf ears; facts that contradict one’s prejudgment simply need not be believed — in such moments the stupid person even becomes critical — and when facts are irrefutable, they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental. In all this the stupid person, in contrast to the malicious one, is utterly self-satisfied and, being easily irritated, becomes dangerous by going on the attack. For that reason, greater caution is called for than with a malicious one. Never again will we try to persuade the stupid person with reasons, for it is senseless and dangerous. If we want to know how to get the better of stupidity, we must seek to understand its nature. This much is certain, that it is in essence not an intellectual defect but a human one. There are human beings who are of remarkably agile intellect yet stupid, and others who are intellectually quite dull yet anything but stupid. We discover this to our surprise in particular situations. The impression one gains is not so much that stupidity is a congenital defect but that, under certain circumstances, people are made stupid or that they allow this to happen to them. We note further that people who have isolated themselves from others or who live in solitude manifest this defect less frequently than individuals or groups of people inclined or condemned to sociability. And so it would seem that stupidity is perhaps less a psychological than a sociological problem. It is a particular form of the impact of historical circumstances on human beings, a psychological concomitant of certain external conditions. Upon closer observation, it becomes apparent that every strong upsurge of power in the public sphere, be it of a political or a religious nature, infects a large part of humankind with stupidity. It would even seem that this is virtually a sociological-psychological law. The power of the one needs the stupidity of the other. The process at work here is not that particular human capacities, for instance, the intellect, suddenly atrophy or fail. Instead, it seems that under the overwhelming impact of rising power, humans are deprived of their inner independence and, more or less consciously, give up establishing an autonomous position toward the emerging circumstances. The fact that the stupid person is often stubborn must not blind us to the fact that he is not independent. In conversation with him, one virtually feels that one is dealing not at all with him as a person, but with slogans, catchwords, and the like that have taken possession of him. He is under a spell, blinded, misused, and abused in his very being. Having thus become a mindless tool, the stupid person will also be capable of any evil and at the same time incapable of seeing that it is evil. This is where the danger of diabolical misuse lurks, for it is this that can once and for all destroy human beings. Yet at this very point it becomes quite clear that only an act of liberation, not instruction, can overcome stupidity. Here we must come to terms with the fact that in most cases a genuine internal liberation becomes possible only when external liberation has preceded it. Until then we must abandon all attempts to convince the stupid person. This state of affairs explains why in such circumstances our attempts to know what “the people” really think are in vain and why, under these circumstances, this question is so irrelevant for the person who is thinking and acting responsibly. The word of the Bible that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom declares that the internal liberation of human beings to live the responsible life before God is the only genuine way to overcome stupidity. But these thoughts about stupidity also offer consolation in that they utterly forbid us to consider the majority of people to be stupid in every circumstance. It really will depend on whether those in power expect more from peoples’ stupidity than from their inner independence and wisdom.” • Dietrich Bonhoeffer Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Letters and Papers from Prison, ed. Christian Gremmels et al., trans. Isabel Best et al., vol. 8 of Dietrich Bonhoeffer Works (Minneapolis, MN: Fortress Press, 2010), 43–44.
Doublehalf Posted October 19 Author Posted October 19 Definitely several on here that think of themselves as intellectuals but have fallen victim to stupidity as stated above...
Scouts Honor Posted October 23 Posted October 23 like this? i mean at least he killed a statue. but you know. statues are gateway drugs...
jross Posted October 23 Posted October 23 On 10/19/2026 at 8:59 AM, Doublehalf said: Definitely several on here that think of themselves as intellectuals but have fallen victim to stupidity as stated above... ...and that’s where the post collapses from a universal observation into a self-own. ^^^ 1
Doublehalf Posted October 23 Author Posted October 23 1 hour ago, jross said: ...and that’s where the post collapses from a universal observation into a self-own. ^^^ Says the guy that can barely have a dialogue without spewing AI prompts all over the message board and pathetically trying to co-opt it as your own thoughts... Your opinions hold no water when you can't form any between your own ears.
Scouts Honor Posted October 23 Posted October 23 i would posit jross is smarter than the combined IQs of all posters on this board. i might be wrong, but it's close
jross Posted October 23 Posted October 23 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Doublehalf said: Says the guy that can barely have a dialogue without spewing AI prompts all over the message board and pathetically trying to co-opt it as your own thoughts... Your opinions hold no water when you can't form any between your own ears. You are intelligent and do not realize when you are stupid. Specifically falling for propoganda without looking for facts. This isn't a big deal. What's silly is calling out others while blind to yourself. You yourself are not perfect and superior enough to call out others on this topic, hence the self-own. Edited October 23 by jross 2
Scouts Honor Posted October 23 Posted October 23 if an opinion is formed between your own ears and it's wrong... does that make one smart?
Doublehalf Posted October 23 Author Posted October 23 1 minute ago, jross said: You are intelligent and do not realize when you are stupid. Specifically falling for propoganda without looking for facts. This isn't a big deal. What's silly is calling others while blind to yourself. Oh wise one- please enlighten us all here with the propaganda that is being fallen for... Caveat- do so in this exercise by turning the spotlight on those here that reside on the far right.
WrestlingRasta Posted October 23 Posted October 23 16 minutes ago, Doublehalf said: Says the guy that can barely have a dialogue without spewing AI prompts all over the message board and pathetically trying to co-opt it as your own thoughts... Your opinions hold no water when you can't form any between your own ears. I don’t always agree with jross’ takes or approach, although at the core we are probably closer aligned than realize….but he definitely expresses his own thoughts. There’s a difference between linking to reference your thoughts, and doing nothing more than copy and paste all over the place instead of being able to articulate your own thoughts. What I find interesting about the starting of this thread as it relates to here is the vast majority who, and yourself included, only concern themselves and focus on the stupidity on the “other side”, as if it doesn’t exist and/or doesn’t matter the stupidity on “their side”. It’s a cult mentality where most people just accuse other people or the other side of the same shit they or their side are doing….but it’s only visible to them from the other side. So much to the point that calling out your own is seen as sitting on some mythical fence. 1
jross Posted October 23 Posted October 23 17 minutes ago, Doublehalf said: Says the guy that can barely have a dialogue without spewing AI prompts all over the message board and pathetically trying to co-opt it as your own thoughts... Your opinions hold no water when you can't form any between your own ears. I use calculators, Grammarly, Google, Maps, AI… tools don’t erase my ability to think. Which of my points anywhere do you not believe is mine?
Doublehalf Posted October 23 Author Posted October 23 21 minutes ago, jross said: You are intelligent and do not realize when you are stupid. Specifically falling for propoganda without looking for facts. This isn't a big deal. What's silly is calling out others while blind to yourself. You yourself are not perfect and superior enough to call out others on this topic, hence the self-own. You should climb down from your mythical fence
Doublehalf Posted October 23 Author Posted October 23 23 minutes ago, Doublehalf said: Oh wise one- please enlighten us all here with the propaganda that is being fallen for... Caveat- do so in this exercise by turning the spotlight on those here that reside on the far right. @jross Are you able to "walk the walk" and demonstrate for everyone your ability to be objective by clearly showing the propaganda those here have fallen for on both sides of the spectrum? Preferably without AI...
jross Posted October 23 Posted October 23 10 minutes ago, Doublehalf said: Oh wise one- please enlighten us all here with the propaganda that is being fallen for... Caveat- do so in this exercise by turning the spotlight on those here that reside on the far right. We can go to any political ad on the right and left... any news site and spot propoganda. https://intermatwrestle.com/forums/topic/522-the-tyranny-of-words-by-stuart-chase-explains-why-we-are-idiots/#comment-12320 https://intermatwrestle.com/forums/topic/5091-how-to-think-critically-about-what-the-media-is-telling-you/#comments I’m getting better at catching when I fall for it and when other people do. I was wrong about Musk’s role with Starshield and Ukraine. You were propagandized into this post: https://intermatwrestle.com/forums/topic/10915-epstein-survivors-releasing-political-ads-against-gop The OP applies to both of us. Your later comment about others (not doublehalf) was dumb in its self-blindness.
jross Posted October 23 Posted October 23 2 minutes ago, Doublehalf said: @jross Are you able to "walk the walk" and demonstrate for everyone your ability to be objective by clearly showing the propaganda those here have fallen for on both sides of the spectrum? Preferably without AI... No I can't, but I try. Nothing to do with AI.
Doublehalf Posted October 23 Author Posted October 23 (edited) 18 minutes ago, jross said: You were propagandized into this post: https://intermatwrestle.com/forums/topic/10915-epstein-survivors-releasing-political-ads-against-gop Your response is appreciated but analysis of my post seemingly is incorrect my friend. It is a fact that a select few Epstein survivors are choosing sides by jumping into politics and creating ads for the left which we haven't seen happen for the right, at least in this midterm cycle. I merely added to that narrative, maybe over enthusiastically. I will admit getting carried away saying the right doesn't support holding pedophiles accountable although this can be argued that a large portion of congress indeed chose not to do this. I wouldn't say that is an example of falling for "propaganda." Similar to the right making an ad about children that were murdered in the 90s presumably to highlight the left not holding criminals accountable. I can't deny the fact a child was murdered even if I think the ad is misguided and abhorrent in the first place. You seem to be willing to attempt to find examples for the "other side" but not your own. This is where any effort you've made to come across as honest and genuine falls apart. Similar to what @WrestlingRasta explained in his post. Edited October 23 by Doublehalf
jross Posted October 23 Posted October 23 There is plenty of propganda from the right here... the immigrants are eating birds comes to mind.
Doublehalf Posted October 23 Author Posted October 23 (edited) 44 minutes ago, jross said: Yes... the OP is fantastic. Universal and true. I will admit it is more "fun" having a dialogue with people like yourself and @WrestlingRasta even in the face of certain disagreements. Overall it seems to be more civilized with far less ad hominem attacks which I certainly am guilty of. I do tend to get caught up slumming it with those such as @Scouts Honor @JimmySpeaks as well as others here... The analogy id equate it to is being back in college and perhaps there is a girl that's been coming on to you for a while but you would consider below your standards and truthfully, a bit dirty so you've held her at bay. But one night perhaps you let your guard down and your judgement is impaired so you finally give in but feel sick to your stomach the next morning after the encounter. I always try and tell myself to do better but hey, no one's perfect... Edited October 23 by Doublehalf 1
jross Posted October 23 Posted October 23 15 minutes ago, Doublehalf said: I merely added to that narrative, maybe over enthusiastically. I will admit getting carried away saying the right doesn't support holding pedophiles accountable although this can be argued that a large portion of congress indeed chose not to do this. I wouldn't say that is an example of falling for "propaganda." Blaming R for opposing accountability for pedophiles rooted on what Schumer did in Congress is propaganda. The contextual facts don’t support it, and with an understanding of cognitive dissonance, denial is difficult to justify.
Doublehalf Posted October 23 Author Posted October 23 (edited) 12 minutes ago, jross said: Blaming R for opposing accountability for pedophiles rooted on what Schumer did in Congress is propaganda. The contextual facts don’t support it, and with an understanding of cognitive dissonance, denial is difficult to justify. Your characterization is flawed. The act was passed but when disclosure was pushed by shumer- the senate voted along party lines to not allow for congress to force compliance of the act and force litigation with DOJ. Shumer probably knew this would happen but that's politics. Maybe he didn't want them released who knows- but when push came to shove to force compliance- GOP voted not to allow congress the chance to bring a lawsuit against the DOJ for their non-compliance and force the release of the Epstein documents. What did they have to gain by doing this? It becomes obvious when the only person mentioned in decades worth of documents more than Epstein himself is Trump. Some AI for your consumption with respect to time: Chuck Schumer's role was primarily to push for disclosure in the Senate, use Senate procedures to pressure Republicans, and later try to force the Justice Department to comply with the law. His record includes several distinct actions. Schumer's actions, in chronological order July 2025 Tried to compel DOJ to turn over records Schumer and Senate Democrats invoked a provision known as the “Rule of Five,” which allows five members of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee to request information from an executive agency within the committee's jurisdiction. They sought Epstein-related records from the DOJ. Sept. 2025 Introduced an amendment requiring disclosure Schumer proposed an amendment to a defense bill directing the attorney general to make Epstein-related documents public. On September 10, the Senate voted 51–49 to table the amendment, preventing it from advancing through that legislative route. Nov. 2025 Helped secure passage of the original act After the House passed the Epstein Files Transparency Act 427–1, Schumer moved for the Senate to pass the House bill immediately, without amendments or delay. The Senate agreed by unanimous consent, and the bill became law on November 19. 2026 Sought legal enforcement Schumer proposed Senate action to authorize litigation against the administration over alleged noncompliance with the transparency law. The resolution, S. Res. 597, was introduced in February 2026. 6. The important complication: Schumer's September vote Schumer supported disclosure, but his September 2025 amendment was tabled by a 51–49 vote. The official Senate record confirms the result. Bottom line: The documented record shows Schumer pushed for disclosure, helped expedite passage of the original act, and later sought legal action against the DOJ. His enforcement proposal was referred to the Senate Rules and Administration Committee; introducing it did not itself authorize a lawsuit. Edited October 23 by Doublehalf
Doublehalf Posted October 23 Author Posted October 23 21 minutes ago, jross said: There is plenty of propganda from the right here... the immigrants are eating birds comes to mind. I think easy ones to spot here are those spewing the "all Muslims bad" and "Israel is perfect and can never be questioned" comments that have obviously fallen victim to propaganda.
jross Posted October 23 Posted October 23 I've voted for Ds and Is before based on who best matches my views. These people I voted for either lost or won but managed along party lines regardless of their own views. The Rs have failed me with this continued war in Iran as priority over our own needs. Liars, they are all liars. It will be a long time before I forget what the Democrats did while in control. Hiring quotas in my own company and being the only white finalist in late-stage interviews Company leadership talking down to me and threatening firing over COVID vaccines Censorship of opinions and facts in the workplace and society. Conservative witch hunts Remote education for my children well beyond necessary Unchecked illegal immigration and financial benefits unavailable to our own citizens by comparison Peaceful riots Pushing lifestyles rather than letting people live quietly Most secure election in history Awakening to leftist control over media and propaganda I had to refactor code, documentation, and my verbiage to eliminate master/slave/etc computer talk due to a misplaced tyranny of words. I was afraid for my family's well-being as the sole provider... Shared views aside, aligning with the left is not currently a viable option for me. Straight Rs down the line this mid term; sadly a first. This wasn't propoganda that programmed me, it was action. Hard to believe how much life has improved for me in the past 2 years culturally with the marked change in freedom of speech, media influence, and workplace.
Doublehalf Posted October 23 Author Posted October 23 (edited) 9 minutes ago, jross said: Hard to believe how much life has improved for me in the past 2 years culturally with the marked change in freedom of speech, media influence, and workplace. As long as you can see that there is a flip side to that coin for 10s of millions of others now feeling the opposite. Maybe far more given the global implications. Your feeling comfortable now has come at the expense of others. I use comfortable as a very loose term as we know millions are afraid for their families well being now that weren't before... It's hard to be optimistic for humanity when everyone's view essentially boils down to "as long as ive got what i want to hell with everyone else" Edited October 23 by Doublehalf
JimmySpeaks Posted October 23 Posted October 23 It’s hard to be optimistic for humanity when everyone’s view essentially boils down to “because someone else has something I should have it too even though I didn’t do anything to get it”. 1 LIVING the dream in the GREATEST COUNTRY on the planet!!!!
Nevaeh Lavarias Pearl City High School, Hawaii Class of 2027 Committed to Kent State Projected Weight: 124
Braeden Simoneaux New York Military Academy, Louisiana Class of 2027 Committed to Wyoming Projected Weight: 184, 197
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